Zelina Vega was at the PC *She has Returned to TV*

[lucas_lee]

Jul 6, 2021 7:24:09 GMT -5 mrtuesday said:

Jul 5, 2021 14:55:22 GMT -5 kingoftheindies said:

Hey if Zelina got a better deal for herself and she is happy good on her.

Much like the issue Charlotte took with Meltzer a few months ago I feel that some people get mad at Dave over things that just aren't worth getting mad about in that he doesn't badmouth them but they don't like what he says. Much ado about nothing.

One thing the last few years have taught me is that pro wrestlers have the thinnest skin.

I have to disagree on some of whats being said. Dave likes to speculate on stuff especially with Charlotte getting surgery, if he just reported the FACTS and didn't add his opinions on things he'd be fine.

[HMARK Center]

Jul 6, 2021 10:13:59 GMT -5 lucas_lee said:

Jul 6, 2021 7:24:09 GMT -5 mrtuesday said:

One thing the last few years have taught me is that pro wrestlers have the thinnest skin.

I have to disagree on some of whats being said. Dave likes to speculate on stuff especially with Charlotte getting surgery, if he just reported the FACTS and didn't add his opinions on things he'd be fine.

I largely agree, and as it's always been said Meltzer has a hell of a time expressing himself at the best of times, but even it's remarkable how often I see people (typically on other sites) getting this close to doing the "Homer Simpson on Rock Bottom" routine with Meltzer...ok, maybe not quite that far, but of all the people I see get dragged regularly on the internet he seems to get the worst "here's a few words he said, utterly divorced from any context whatsoever, so you should hate him now!" treatment. Like, yes, he's brought up that some of the women have seemingly gotten elective surgery done and then had some issues with in-ring performance afterwards; this has been turned into him denigrating women for having elective surgery which...no, he did not do.

All of that said, I think what everyone could bear to do more is realize that Twitter discourse does not equal actual discourse.

You see this with anything that gets talked about on Twitter: sports, politics, entertainment, doesn't matter, you get people who completely lose sight of the reality that the Twitter user base, and the number of users who actually post regularly on Twitter, is just a tiny fraction of the overall population. This means that they take whatever reactions they get, any criticisms they get, any buzz they get, any whatever they hear, and just assume that "EVERYONE is saying (whatever)".

And...no. No, not "everybody" is doing something, because nowhere near as many people use Twitter as most regular Twitter users think. I get that's a difficult thing to deal with when you're a public person on Twitter and likely have to deal with all kinds of annoying behavior from others (I mean, I can't imagine having a DM inbox filled with over 100 negative comments, let alone the thousands some probably get), but it's probably the platform that most easily allows people to completely lose perspective on issues of public interest. This is definitely a weakness Meltzer's been showing lately; he's too wrapped up in what the wrestling Twitterverse is saying, and I think he's letting that get to him, which just is NOT worth it, not for anybody.

[An Dog On An Skateboard]

Jul 6, 2021 10:29:20 GMT -5 HMARK Center said:

Jul 6, 2021 10:13:59 GMT -5 lucas_lee said:

I have to disagree on some of whats being said. Dave likes to speculate on stuff especially with Charlotte getting surgery, if he just reported the FACTS and didn't add his opinions on things he'd be fine.

I largely agree, and as it's always been said Meltzer has a hell of a time expressing himself at the best of times, but even it's remarkable how often I see people (typically on other sites) getting this close to doing the "Homer Simpson on Rock Bottom" routine with Meltzer...ok, maybe not quite that far, but of all the people I see get dragged regularly on the internet he seems to get the worst "here's a few words he said, utterly divorced from any context whatsoever, so you should hate him now!" treatment. Like, yes, he's brought up that some of the women have seemingly gotten elective surgery done and then had some issues with in-ring performance afterwards; this has been turned into him denigrating women for having elective surgery which...no, he did not do.

Actually, I would say you're not far off the mark comparing it to Homer Simpson on Rock Bottom. He got rinsed for saying something foolish about Peyton Royce, but he admitted that he f***ed up, apologised, and clarified what he actually meant, yet this is still a stick people use to beat him with. The comment about Indian viewers being viewed as valueless by advertisers was perhaps expressed carelessly, but anyone with even the most basic critical thinking skills knew what was meant by it, and yet again, he's still attacked for it. The Charlotte Flair comment he made wasn't anything that a lot of us have said or thought about the unreasonable standards placed on female wrestlers, but she threw her toys out of the pram on Twitter or whatever (coincidentally the same day that Mickie James had her things sent to her in a bin bag by WWE) and there was a massive dogpile. I could go on and on.

Everyone knows what he means whether they admit it or not, but you've got people who choose to willfully misinterpret it and then scoff at the idea of him being taken out of context, all as part of some ridiculous mutual backslapping session on Twitter, or Reddit, or wherever else people congregate to congratulate themselves for being special and perceptive free-thinkers who don't read what he says.

[lucas_lee]

Jul 6, 2021 12:13:43 GMT -5 An Dog On An Skateboard said:

Jul 6, 2021 10:29:20 GMT -5 HMARK Center said:

I largely agree, and as it's always been said Meltzer has a hell of a time expressing himself at the best of times, but even it's remarkable how often I see people (typically on other sites) getting this close to doing the "Homer Simpson on Rock Bottom" routine with Meltzer...ok, maybe not quite that far, but of all the people I see get dragged regularly on the internet he seems to get the worst "here's a few words he said, utterly divorced from any context whatsoever, so you should hate him now!" treatment. Like, yes, he's brought up that some of the women have seemingly gotten elective surgery done and then had some issues with in-ring performance afterwards; this has been turned into him denigrating women for having elective surgery which...no, he did not do.

Actually, I would say you're not far off the mark comparing it to Homer Simpson on Rock Bottom. He got rinsed for saying something foolish about Peyton Royce, but he admitted that he f***ed up, apologised, and clarified what he actually meant, yet this is still a stick people use to beat him with. The comment about Indian viewers being viewed as valueless by advertisers was perhaps expressed carelessly, but anyone with even the most basic critical thinking skills knew what was meant by it, and yet again, he's still attacked for it. The Charlotte Flair comment he made wasn't anything that a lot of us have said or thought about the unreasonable standards placed on female wrestlers, but she threw her toys out of the pram on Twitter or whatever (coincidentally the same day that Mickie James had her things sent to her in a bin bag by WWE) and there was a massive dogpile. I could go on and on.

Everyone knows what he means whether they admit it or not, but you've got people who choose to willfully misinterpret it and then scoff at the idea of him being taken out of context, all as part of some ridiculous mutual backslapping session on Twitter, or Reddit, or wherever else people congregate to congratulate themselves for being special and perceptive free-thinkers who don't read what he says.

There's a difference between us as fans and a professional journalist though. If he wasn't a journalist and the most prominent wrestling one, no one would care what he says. Its just his title that gets us caring about him. Its why we drag shock jock journalists that say dumb stuff like Skip Bayless all the time.

[BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps]

God damn, there’s so much Meltzer related tea being spilled these days that British redcoat soldiers follow the poor guy around.

“Spare a cup, mate? ‘N what’d you rate that one ZSJ match?”

[polarbearpete]

Jul 6, 2021 10:29:20 GMT -5 HMARK Center said:

Jul 6, 2021 10:13:59 GMT -5 lucas_lee said:

I have to disagree on some of whats being said. Dave likes to speculate on stuff especially with Charlotte getting surgery, if he just reported the FACTS and didn't add his opinions on things he'd be fine.

I largely agree, and as it's always been said Meltzer has a hell of a time expressing himself at the best of times, but even it's remarkable how often I see people (typically on other sites) getting this close to doing the "Homer Simpson on Rock Bottom" routine with Meltzer...ok, maybe not quite that far, but of all the people I see get dragged regularly on the internet he seems to get the worst "here's a few words he said, utterly divorced from any context whatsoever, so you should hate him now!" treatment. Like, yes, he's brought up that some of the women have seemingly gotten elective surgery done and then had some issues with in-ring performance afterwards; this has been turned into him denigrating women for having elective surgery which...no, he did not do.

All of that said, I think what everyone could bear to do more is realize that Twitter discourse does not equal actual discourse.

You see this with anything that gets talked about on Twitter: sports, politics, entertainment, doesn't matter, you get people who completely lose sight of the reality that the Twitter user base, and the number of users who actually post regularly on Twitter, is just a tiny fraction of the overall population. This means that they take whatever reactions they get, any criticisms they get, any buzz they get, any whatever they hear, and just assume that "EVERYONE is saying (whatever)".

And...no. No, not "everybody" is doing something, because nowhere near as many people use Twitter as most regular Twitter users think. I get that's a difficult thing to deal with when you're a public person on Twitter and likely have to deal with all kinds of annoying behavior from others (I mean, I can't imagine having a DM inbox filled with over 100 negative comments, let alone the thousands some probably get), but it's probably the platform that most easily allows people to completely lose perspective on issues of public interest. This is definitely a weakness Meltzer's been showing lately; he's too wrapped up in what the wrestling Twitterverse is saying, and I think he's letting that get to him, which just is NOT worth it, not for anybody.

Meltzer gets wrapped up in the Twitterverse because it leads to him getting more subscriptions when he engages in those types of back and forths on Twitter. At least that’s what those on the F4W board have been saying about the topic.

I do think he doesn’t have the best history of reporting on women, especially in the past. Some of his comments about Sable during the Attitude Era were a bit over the top, IMO.

[Crappler El 0 M]

What did Dave Meltzer actually do? Is it that he called out Thea Trinidad for saying the wrestling media were wrong in their reporting on her? Pretty much everything Sean Ross Sapp, PW Insider, and Dave Meltzer reported about her was spot on. She and her husband both have taken shots at the wrestling media since they were released (and rehired in Thea's case), yet they really weren't wrong, and Aleister Black essentially admitted that what they reported was true, after initially denying it.

[Dub H]

Jul 6, 2021 14:31:31 GMT -5 Crappler El 0 M said:

What did Dave Meltzer actually do? Is it that he called out Thea Trinidad for saying the wrestling media were wrong in their reporting on her? Pretty much everything Sean Ross Sapp, PW Insider, and Dave Meltzer reported about her was spot on. She and her husband both have taken shots at the wrestling media since they were released (and rehired in Thea's case), yet they really weren't wrong, and Aleister Black essentially admitted that what they reported was true, after initially denying it.

This is the new wave strategy for scummy people.

Get mad at reporters for stating the facts, it doesnt matter anymore if they are wrong or right,just that you blame then.You see it everywhere

[polarbearpete]

Jul 6, 2021 14:31:31 GMT -5 Crappler El 0 M said:

What did Dave Meltzer actually do? Is it that he called out Thea Trinidad for saying the wrestling media were wrong in their reporting on her? Pretty much everything Sean Ross Sapp, PW Insider, and Dave Meltzer reported about her was spot on. She and her husband both have taken shots at the wrestling media since they were released (and rehired in Thea's case), yet they really weren't wrong, and Aleister Black essentially admitted that what they reported was true, after initially denying it.

He was in the right with the meaning of what he said, but I think he shouldn’t have called her “f’ing stupid” during his rant. That just gave people something to latch onto.

[Crappler El 0 M]

Jul 6, 2021 14:55:47 GMT -5 polarbearpete said:

Jul 6, 2021 14:31:31 GMT -5 Crappler El 0 M said:

What did Dave Meltzer actually do? Is it that he called out Thea Trinidad for saying the wrestling media were wrong in their reporting on her? Pretty much everything Sean Ross Sapp, PW Insider, and Dave Meltzer reported about her was spot on. She and her husband both have taken shots at the wrestling media since they were released (and rehired in Thea's case), yet they really weren't wrong, and Aleister Black essentially admitted that what they reported was true, after initially denying it.

He was in the right with the meaning of what he said, but I think he shouldn’t have called her “f’ing stupid” during his rant. That just gave people something to latch onto.

I just found the clip. He was not referring directly to Thea Trinidad when he said "f***ing stupid."

[polarbearpete]

Jul 6, 2021 15:04:07 GMT -5 Crappler El 0 M said:

Jul 6, 2021 14:55:47 GMT -5 polarbearpete said:

He was in the right with the meaning of what he said, but I think he shouldn’t have called her “f’ing stupid” during his rant. That just gave people something to latch onto.

I just found the clip. He was not referring directly to Thea Trinidad when he said "f***ing stupid."

I mean, come on. Let’s be real. He said “Thea said xyz.” “Anyone who says xyz is “f****ing stupid.” And he said it twice.

And I agree with his point! But let’s not sugarcoat that part of it. Wasn’t necessary.

[Deleted]

Jul 6, 2021 15:05:29 GMT -5 polarbearpete said:

Jul 6, 2021 15:04:07 GMT -5 Crappler El 0 M said:

I just found the clip. He was not referring directly to Thea Trinidad when he said "f***ing stupid."

I mean, come on. Let’s be real. He said “Thea said xyz.” “Anyone who says xyz is “f****ing stupid.” And he said it twice.

And I agree with his point! But let’s not sugarcoat that part of it. Wasn’t necessary.

Deleted my post as I've only heard clips and not the full show so context matters. However, in general, saying someone is f***ing stupid when they've done or said something stupid is pretty fair play.

[Crappler El 0 M]

Jul 6, 2021 15:05:29 GMT -5 polarbearpete said:

Jul 6, 2021 15:04:07 GMT -5 Crappler El 0 M said:

I just found the clip. He was not referring directly to Thea Trinidad when he said "f***ing stupid."

I mean, come on. Let’s be real. He said “Thea said xyz.” “Anyone who says xyz is “f****ing stupid.” And he said it twice.

And I agree with his point! But let’s not sugarcoat that part of it. Wasn’t necessary.

I think it's an important distinction and one is easier to ignore or justify than the other.

[polarbearpete]

Jul 6, 2021 15:09:56 GMT -5 @flaminghalo said:

Jul 6, 2021 15:05:29 GMT -5 polarbearpete said:

I mean, come on. Let’s be real. He said “Thea said xyz.” “Anyone who says xyz is “f****ing stupid.” And he said it twice.

And I agree with his point! But let’s not sugarcoat that part of it. Wasn’t necessary.

Deleted my post as I've only heard clips and not the full show so context matters. However, in general, saying someone is f***ing stupid when they've done or said something stupid is pretty fair play.

If you think so. That’s not the way I’d want to present myself in public or private life.

[polarbearpete]

Jul 6, 2021 15:15:24 GMT -5 Crappler El 0 M said:

Jul 6, 2021 15:05:29 GMT -5 polarbearpete said:

I mean, come on. Let’s be real. He said “Thea said xyz.” “Anyone who says xyz is “f****ing stupid.” And he said it twice.

And I agree with his point! But let’s not sugarcoat that part of it. Wasn’t necessary.

I think it's an important distinction and one is easier to ignore or justify than the other.

It’s certainly more tactful the way he did it. But I don’t think that makes it better.

But again, I agree with his point about Thea’s original statement being way too general of a statement with no names and stories referenced. I just don’t agree with the language he used in response. It just gave more unnecessary ammo to the anti-Dave trolls.

[Deleted]

Jul 6, 2021 15:44:03 GMT -5 polarbearpete said:

Jul 6, 2021 15:09:56 GMT -5 @flaminghalo said:

Deleted my post as I've only heard clips and not the full show so context matters. However, in general, saying someone is f***ing stupid when they've done or said something stupid is pretty fair play.

If you think so. That’s not the way I’d want to present myself in public or private life.

Good for you sweetie.

[khali]

Jul 6, 2021 15:47:21 GMT -5 polarbearpete said:

Jul 6, 2021 15:15:24 GMT -5 Crappler El 0 M said:

I think it's an important distinction and one is easier to ignore or justify than the other.

It’s certainly more tactful the way he did it. But I don’t think that makes it better.

But again, I agree with his point about Thea’s original statement being way too general of a statement with no names and stories referenced. I just don’t agree with the language he used in response. It just gave more unnecessary ammo to the anti-Dave trolls.

See, this is where it just gets silly to me. The anti-Dave trolls, being trolls, are disingenuous bad actors by their nature. While Dave has said things poorly in the past, he and no one else should try to speak in a way that won’t provide ammo to the trolls. The trolls will find it anyway. Responding to valid criticism is right. Worrying about providing a two second sound bite to troll accounts is useless because they’ll do it anyway. That’s their goal.

[Deleted]

Jul 6, 2021 14:22:57 GMT -5 polarbearpete said:

Jul 6, 2021 10:29:20 GMT -5 HMARK Center said:

I largely agree, and as it's always been said Meltzer has a hell of a time expressing himself at the best of times, but even it's remarkable how often I see people (typically on other sites) getting this close to doing the "Homer Simpson on Rock Bottom" routine with Meltzer...ok, maybe not quite that far, but of all the people I see get dragged regularly on the internet he seems to get the worst "here's a few words he said, utterly divorced from any context whatsoever, so you should hate him now!" treatment. Like, yes, he's brought up that some of the women have seemingly gotten elective surgery done and then had some issues with in-ring performance afterwards; this has been turned into him denigrating women for having elective surgery which...no, he did not do.

All of that said, I think what everyone could bear to do more is realize that Twitter discourse does not equal actual discourse.

You see this with anything that gets talked about on Twitter: sports, politics, entertainment, doesn't matter, you get people who completely lose sight of the reality that the Twitter user base, and the number of users who actually post regularly on Twitter, is just a tiny fraction of the overall population. This means that they take whatever reactions they get, any criticisms they get, any buzz they get, any whatever they hear, and just assume that "EVERYONE is saying (whatever)".

And...no. No, not "everybody" is doing something, because nowhere near as many people use Twitter as most regular Twitter users think. I get that's a difficult thing to deal with when you're a public person on Twitter and likely have to deal with all kinds of annoying behavior from others (I mean, I can't imagine having a DM inbox filled with over 100 negative comments, let alone the thousands some probably get), but it's probably the platform that most easily allows people to completely lose perspective on issues of public interest. This is definitely a weakness Meltzer's been showing lately; he's too wrapped up in what the wrestling Twitterverse is saying, and I think he's letting that get to him, which just is NOT worth it, not for anybody.

Meltzer gets wrapped up in the Twitterverse because it leads to him getting more subscriptions when he engages in those types of back and forths on Twitter. At least that’s what those on the F4W board have been saying about the topic.

I do think he doesn’t have the best history of reporting on women, especially in the past. Some of his comments about Sable during the Attitude Era were a bit over the top, IMO.

I think those have to be looked at through the lens of it happening 20-25 years ago. He definitely said some things that were out of line during those times, but that's also 20-25 years ago and he would probably condemn his own word usage from back then as well.

I'm amazed at how well deflecting onto Meltzer works for wrestlers. We've spent this whole last page discussing him instead of Vega so I completely understand why she would do it. It really does help get the attention off of her and onto him regardless of if it's a good/moral/ethical route to go.

[ThankGodForSidJustice]

I think Meltzer is just socially awkward and it leads to misunderstandings and things getting blown out of proportion like the Peyton Royce thing from a few years ago. I also think that might have been a case of her being a drama queen too and I like Peyton. Alvarez is by far more abrasive. Meltzer to me always seems like more of the voice of reason and comes off like a nicer guy to me. A lot of the times he'll actually defend WWE on some of their decision even a lot of their really dumb ones that shouldn't be defended. However I think he should be taken to task for false reporting like the Charlotte thing. Like I'm pretty sure it was also anyways as if I remember she was on Raw the next week after he said she going to be out for a while to have more work done and her "suspension" for beating up that ref was a way to write her off for that. I agreed with him in that I think a lot of these girls do get too much work done and it's probably as result of pressure from the office but if it's not a fact you should just leave it alone.

On the other hand I do think a lot of these wrestlers are a bunch of thin skinned pansy's which is so ironic with them being in a profession that requires so much physical toughness. A lot of them really over react like Corbin calling him a cancer. Like seriously dude? You are going to use that word because some journalist gave some constructive criticism about your match not being good. Also it seems like a lot of them just go out of their way to start stuff with him like Zelina. Alright it was reported you were returning to the company and you returned to the company. What was reported that was false? It's like just move along and worry about you. Why do you have to make some big ordeal about something that isn't that big of a deal or is just literally nothing to begin with. Seriously I really don't like socially media and I think this world would be a lot better without it. It just brings the worst out of people or at least brings the worst of people to light that we would all be better off not knowing about.

[Final Countdown Jones]

Jul 6, 2021 15:59:40 GMT -5 khali said:

Jul 6, 2021 15:47:21 GMT -5 polarbearpete said:

It’s certainly more tactful the way he did it. But I don’t think that makes it better.

But again, I agree with his point about Thea’s original statement being way too general of a statement with no names and stories referenced. I just don’t agree with the language he used in response. It just gave more unnecessary ammo to the anti-Dave trolls.

See, this is where it just gets silly to me. The anti-Dave trolls, being trolls, are disingenuous bad actors by their nature. While Dave has said things poorly in the past, he and no one else should try to speak in a way that won’t provide ammo to the trolls. The trolls will find it anyway. Responding to valid criticism is right. Worrying about providing a two second sound bite to troll accounts is useless because they’ll do it anyway. That’s their goal.

I think the part that kills me is that it's always the same handful of obvious troll accounts, and people keep taking them seriously ebcause they're just that determined to hate Meltzer.