Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,192
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Post by Mecca on Nov 19, 2021 2:57:01 GMT -5
I feel like AEW has a lot of problems in its own right - some of the big ones coming to mind for me are the continued shittiness of the women's division, how often they're dead set on a plan and the rest of the show for months on end is a slow limp getting there even though everyone knows where it's going and the buildup's basically already been done, the ranking system being completely stupid and arbitrary, a gigantic chunk of the roster just being complete nonentities to me, and how feuds never seem to actually end - and I can't really claim to care enough about it to watch more than Dynamite and PPVs, but I do feel like by every possible metric they're putting out a vastly superior product to WWE. If nothing else if a match is being hyped as a big deal in AEW then it probably on some level at least feels like it, there are actual storylines and characters, and they actually have continuity instead of every show existing in its own pocket universe that's kiiiinda like the previous weeks but not one-to-one by any stretch. Really in general I feel like it's a company that routinely puts on weekly shows that are 7s that are often called 10s because it's not like anyone else around is putting on anything close to 7s. You know when you’re watching the Super Bowl or World Series, you really don’t care about the teams, but it’s a good game and you enjoy the commercials, halftime show and the food. That’s kinda how I feel about AEW, like I don’t have a dog in that fight. There’s a lot of talent I enjoy in AEW and things I like about the company, but last ppv was pretty much one of their biggest moments as a company and I could care less. There’s just something about the product that’s completely off putting. Can you put your finger on what it is? I don't feel that way do I'm honestly curious about that.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,770
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Post by nisidhe on Nov 19, 2021 3:02:00 GMT -5
Also can we stop with the "HHH and Stephanie are totally divorcing" stuff... they're real people guys... and speculating on that is pretty gross. With all due respect, it is equally gross for the owners of a wrestling company to release en masse a significant portion of its talent roster during a pandemic, targeting in particular those recruited and supported by a member of the family who, until this year, was primarily responsible for the overall creative success of the developmental brand. I would argue that what's sauce for the goose is also sauce for the gander. I think it is exceedingly relevant to the discussion of why Trips is no longer even leaning in on the creative direction in WWE, and why his stamp on the company's operations seems not just erased, but covered over in multihued Liquid Paper(tm). We're complaining about Adam and Sonya being bargain-brand Paul and Steph and asking why they don't just tap Steph to come out. We see Steph getting all these business accolades but not a peep about her husband? I realize that the board wants to preserve decorum, but is silencing any discussion about the Levesques' marriage so necessary to that end that, even if it might explain everything we've seen during the past six months, it can't be talked about? Like, at all? I believe the probation value of the discussion outweighs any reasonable discomfort over it. If you disagree, please remove this post, but please also understand that this question, in being silenced, is creating a largish void in the discourse.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,295
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Post by chazraps on Nov 19, 2021 3:04:37 GMT -5
AEW is growing because the people they're attracting are even less casuals than casuals, they're *new* fans.
The same reason indys are growing as local hip events.
Wrestling as a live medium is having a resurgence and AEW is the closest thing to capturing that live local energy. Additionally, it rewards repeat viewing and longterm viewing.
There's an entire generation of wrestling fans and non-wrestling fans who only know WWE. That's the only thing they know, and a lot of it comes off to them as dweeb shit.
AEW doesn't have as much of what puts potential viewers off of WWE. It's not just "lapsed fans" or "converted WWE fans" or "casual fans," - it's legit new viewers.
It's the same breakaway spectacle that the Attitude Era/nWo was from mainstream 90s wrestling (which a generation had known as lame dweeb shit) just as Rock N Wrestling in the 80s was a hip aesthetic departure from what a generation knew wrestling as (intelligence insulting dweeb shit).
If we're talking pop culture permeance, WWE's most successful years have been as a conduit of the counter-culture to mainstream via their worldwide platform of a medium that's been around for centuries. Whatever's been happening for the last 20 years, whether it's the watered down MMA or the hyper-toyetic kiddie fixation and all points in-between, it's just come off to many people as either dweeb shit or "that thing I watched as a kid." There's no real waves or movements to get caught up in. In the past decade, Daniel Bryan and The New Day have come closest for that very reason.
I should note, Effy called WWE "Dweeb shit" during his program with Ryder and now I can't shake that terminology from my head. So credit where credit is due.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Nov 19, 2021 3:07:27 GMT -5
Hey, I might be being a bit too pushy but people have lost their jobs likely for no real good reason. Let’s stop talking about what we think about AEW, yeah?
There’s, like, an entire sub forum you can go to.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Nov 19, 2021 3:10:31 GMT -5
Also can we stop with the "HHH and Stephanie are totally divorcing" stuff... they're real people guys... and speculating on that is pretty gross. With all due respect, it is equally gross for the owners of a wrestling company to release en masse a significant portion of its talent roster during a pandemic, targeting in particular those recruited and supported by a member of the family who, until this year, was primarily responsible for the overall creative success of the developmental brand. I would argue that what's sauce for the goose is also sauce for the gander. I think it is exceedingly relevant to the discussion of why Trips is no longer even leaning in on the creative direction in WWE, and why his stamp on the company's operations seems not just erased, but covered over in multihued Liquid Paper(tm). We're complaining about Adam and Sonya being bargain-brand Paul and Steph and asking why they don't just tap Steph to come out. We see Steph getting all these business accolades but not a peep about her husband? I realize that the board wants to preserve decorum, but is silencing any discussion about the Levesques' marriage so necessary to that end that, even if it might explain everything we've seen during the past six months, it can't be talked about? Like, at all? I believe the probation value of the discussion outweighs any reasonable discomfort over it. If you disagree, please remove this post, but please also understand that this question, in being silenced, is creating a largish void in the discourse. I think we’re just trying to be polite given that the dude has been in hiding for months now after having what was probably a damn heart attack. Not a “Oh, Vince did something to me” one, like a legit one that could’ve killed him.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2021 3:13:23 GMT -5
You know when you’re watching the Super Bowl or World Series, you really don’t care about the teams, but it’s a good game and you enjoy the commercials, halftime show and the food. That’s kinda how I feel about AEW, like I don’t have a dog in that fight. There’s a lot of talent I enjoy in AEW and things I like about the company, but last ppv was pretty much one of their biggest moments as a company and I could care less. There’s just something about the product that’s completely off putting. Can you put your finger on what it is? I don't feel that way do I'm honestly curious about that. In a nutshell I want wrestling to feel like a cartoon or a superhero movie. I want things over the top. Wacky characters and storylines. AEW has taken the WCW route of making things feel to real. Focusing more on in ring action, then storylines are in the background to weekly match ups. Which kinda takes the fun out of it. Best way I can put it is Tony signed like 8 “good at wrestling guys” and passed on guys like Zicky Dice. To me I’d rather have 8 Zicky Dices.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Nov 19, 2021 3:18:09 GMT -5
Aaaand now we can move on from AEW to the point at hand.
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Nov 19, 2021 3:23:03 GMT -5
Aaaand now we can move on from AEW to the point at hand. Sin Cara?
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 122,049
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Post by Mozenrath on Nov 19, 2021 3:23:04 GMT -5
It's crazy too Tegan is yet another LGBT talent released this year too Honestly it makes me wonder if it's deliberate. It wouldn't exactly be a shock if when a bunch of ancient guys are looking for people they consider expendable the LGBT are high on the list. I could see them seeing her and thinking, "We've got Sonya and Shayna, this is a redundancy." Like, we're pretty far out of the delusion that they're looking at them like people. WWE has quotas.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,295
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Post by chazraps on Nov 19, 2021 3:23:11 GMT -5
Hey, I might be being a bit too pushy but people have lost their jobs likely for no real good reason. Let’s stop talking about what we think about AEW, yeah? There’s, like, an entire sub forum you can go to. This is a good point. My condolences to the releases losing their dream job and having to endure the scrutiny surrounding it. I haven't discussed this on the board, but last December the radio station I worked for was unexpectedly sold out of nowhere and myself and all my co-workers abruptly lost our jobs all at once. Our ratings were good-to-great and we were overall doing very well but the owners/parent company decided they wanted to leave the radio business and our signals were sold to a station in Florida to just simulcast here. It sucks not only losing a job you love, but losing it publicly and having to deal with a bunch of feedback and speculation you never asked for is hell. The support I got was a nice comfort, but there's still so much discourse from total strangers, all with varying degrees of understanding of the situation, that winds up being overwhelming in terms of both being hurtful as well as the behemoth of misinformation you almost feel obligated to correct despite it, in the most literal way, isn't your job anymore. Being it's an entertainment job, you can't just up and leave social media either despite it seeming like a way to completely clear your head as you never know if an opportunity is going to come from someone reaching out or seeing you pop up on one of these platforms. So yeah, I write that not to make this about me, but to point out that the talent released I'm certain have it infinitely worse. Like, I was an on-air DJ heard within the state limits of Minnesota. These are people on a worldwide platform. Worldwide. Losing a dream job is devastating and a time when many prefer their privacy as they grieve a major loss in their life and all that comes with it. These are people who are going through that but now also have to hear unsolicited speculation from the entire planet. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. The hurt and the mental toll they're going through is something so unique to this form of largely-monopolized entertainment. I sincerely wish them all the best.
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Post by welshpenguin on Nov 19, 2021 3:23:50 GMT -5
Sad about Tegan & Hit Row, they should have just sent them back to nxt. Will miss having the shiny Welsh wizard represent Wales 😞Morrison is just insanely talented & poor Drake again 😞
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,192
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Post by Mecca on Nov 19, 2021 3:27:18 GMT -5
After all this I wonder if any of the talent is truly safe or more importantly feels safe.
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Nov 19, 2021 3:30:38 GMT -5
After all this I wonder if any of the talent is truly safe or more importantly feels safe. Roman, Usos, Becky, Seth, and New Day are probably the ones you could say are safe.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
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Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 122,049
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Post by Mozenrath on Nov 19, 2021 3:36:39 GMT -5
Two years ago they were hiring everything that moved. Now they're firing everything that isn't bolted down. All while making record profits. And I have zero doubt they're going to hire a bunch of newbies and no-names, probably handful of somebodies, too, or bring back a veteran for a couple of months. They do it every time, and then they end up firing most of those people before they ever see TV, too.
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pinja
Unicron
Posts: 3,148
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Post by pinja on Nov 19, 2021 3:41:57 GMT -5
Hey, I might be being a bit too pushy but people have lost their jobs likely for no real good reason. Let’s stop talking about what we think about AEW, yeah? There’s, like, an entire sub forum you can go to. This is a good point. My condolences to the releases losing their dream job and having to endure the scrutiny surrounding it. I haven't discussed this on the board, but last December the radio station I worked for was unexpectedly sold out of nowhere. Our ratings were good-to-great and we were overall doing very well but the owners/parent company decided they wanted to leave the radio business and our signals were sold to a station in Florida to just simulcast here. It sucks not only losing a job you love, but losing it publicly and having to deal with a bunch of feedback and speculation you never asked for is hell. The support I got was a nice comfort, but there's still so much discourse from total strangers, all with varying degrees of understanding of the situation, that winds up being overwhelming in terms of both being hurtful as well as the behemoth of misinformation you almost feel obligated to correct despite it, in the most literal way, isn't your job anymore. Being it's an entertainment job, you can't just up and leave social media either despite it seeming like a way to completely clear your head as you never know if an opportunity is going to come from someone reaching out or seeing you pop up on one of these platforms. So yeah, I write that not to make this about me, but to point out that the talent released I'm certain have it infinitely worse. Like, I was an on-air DJ heard within the state limits of Minnesota. These are people on a worldwide platform. Worldwide. Losing a dream job is devastating and a time when many prefer their privacy as they grieve a major loss in their life and all that comes with it. These are people who are going through that but now also have to hear unsolicited speculation from the entire planet. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. The hurt and the mental toll they're going through is something so unique to this form of largely-monopolized entertainment. I sincerely wish them all the best. That's pretty much it. Many of them don't lose a job - they lose a career. They won't just find another job, they first need to search for a new direction while having no income.
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Post by cornettesracket on Nov 19, 2021 3:42:01 GMT -5
What the ever loving f*** are wwe up to releasing Tegan nox ? On top of everything else really positive you can say about her, the main one is she’s welsh ffs. The nation of people scientifically proven to be sound. They are taking the piss with this one.
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Gecko
Grimlock
FAN Pyrite Member. Muahahaha
Posts: 13,647
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Post by Gecko on Nov 19, 2021 3:48:06 GMT -5
After all this I wonder if any of the talent is truly safe or more importantly feels safe. I doubt that anybody, apart from a very few select names, feels too secure anymore. It's not even a "I've not been on TV in a little while, maybe I'm getting released" situation now. You could be on TV regularly, just returned or debuted, or in the middle of a storyline, and it seemingly doesn't make you safe.
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mattyy
Unicron
holy moly its the big homie
Posts: 3,159
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Post by mattyy on Nov 19, 2021 3:56:06 GMT -5
After all this I wonder if any of the talent is truly safe or more importantly feels safe. Roman, Usos, Becky, Seth, and New Day are probably the ones you could say are safe. see, people say "New Day", and I'm sure WWE wouldn't want to release any member of that faction... but Creed and the UUDD crew haven't made content for over a month now out of protest concerning money... and did you see that video of Creed from Attack of the Show? I think if I were WWE, I'd be worried about pissing off a group like New Day, who have history with The Elite... and from the outside looking in, they aren't doing a stellar job.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Nov 19, 2021 3:56:46 GMT -5
SO They drafted a damn stable to Smackdown JUST to fire them? I group of very talented wrestlers at that, And fire Drake TWICE in a year. The dude took a pay cut for the company to stay and yet a year later still said screw you. The amount of women's wrestlers they fired from the this year alone, you can build a womens divison and be a damn good one. What sucks about all of this that ROH not being in business at the moment. Whatever they do in April, there will be talent out there. Not just AEW, but Impact, NWA, and MLW really can benefit from this. That if the NWA got serious in bring in these talents which they really haven't touched much on outside of Mickie and Green.
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Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
Posts: 24,212
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Post by Bo Rida on Nov 19, 2021 3:58:19 GMT -5
I'm not 100% sure it's accurate but I read wwe have released 140 wrestlers since April of 2020 and it seems about right. It genuinely saddens me to see what WWE has become. What the ever loving f*** are wwe up to releasing Tegan nox ? On top of everything else really positive you can say about her, the main one is she’s welsh ffs. The nation of people scientifically proven to be sound. They are taking the piss with this one. Maybe PAC will put a good word in for her as they're both from Wales (source: JR).
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