clifford
King Koopa
Shingo Takagi stan
Posts: 10,692
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Post by clifford on Nov 19, 2021 9:53:33 GMT -5
Yeah everyone listed here are top talents that still have a good decade before being past their peak, but outside of Breaker and Steveson, they are already established main players/pretty close to it. None of them are creating new fans for the WWE. I was talking about finding that pool of talent of 2-4 bonafide superstars to build the company around, ala Orton/Cena/Batista, The Shield, The Horsewomen. Breaker and Steveson could absolutely be those dudes, lets see. I guess my main point is this; how are WWE gonna find their next batch of main event players if their only strategy is to spam developmental green wrestlers from NXT 2.0 to the main roster, all the while releasing people whenever they want/without any good reason other than because they don't see any value in them, even though they aren't giving the same people any real opportunities. If you say those talents have close to a decade left still, I don’t think the next wave needs to already be here. Seems like plenty of talent. There’s also going to be new main eventers potentially created by AEW over the next 10 years that may create bidding wars. They could also reverse course on who they want to hire and develop at any point. That AEW point is a very good one. There is going to be a wrestler who breaks out and becomes a main player in AEW and then signs for WWE further down the line. And when that happens, it will open the possibility of others doing it too. Its all one way at the moment, but give it a few years and there will be a good bit of back and forth. And this will be different to Triple H signing hot indie talents to stash in NXT 1.0, cause when they sign a big AEW name you'll have ready made popular talents with years of weekly television and PPVs under their belts.
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RKTaker
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,330
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Post by RKTaker on Nov 19, 2021 9:55:02 GMT -5
Bit of walking thoughts here while I went and did some grocery shopping: 1. If everybody has been so outraged by WWE's... well, everything, over the last 20 years or so, how is it that AEW is still behind WWE in viewer numbers? You'd think that the promotion actively trying to give fans what they want would be starting to reap some of the dividends of that at some point in terms of beating WWE's overall numbers on a regular basis, unless either there isn't as much of "everyone" (as in us internet types who have been on here forever talking mess about WWE) as we think there is, or WWE have still got something that people want to see, which then I ask... 2. What actually IS that? I'm not seeing it, but that's just me. Because some of us have seen the alternatives and prefer what we know. ROH lost me when they kept the Briscoes after the flag incident, NJPW lost me with the neverending Okada And Bullet Club show, and AAA burned me BAD the times I tried to watch. And AEW's got a LOT of reasons why I will never give them a second of my time. So as much as I hate Vince and his Four Stooges, WWE! WITH ALL THY FAULTS- this is why WWE are the way that they are because they know people will keep watching no matter what because people don’t want to watch alternatives. well what happens when all that’s left of the roster are people who can’t even do clotheslines properly
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"Magic" Mark Hurr
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Here, have some chili dogs
Now featuring half the brain that you do.
Posts: 16,626
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Post by "Magic" Mark Hurr on Nov 19, 2021 10:07:32 GMT -5
WWE has become the NFT of televised entertainment: An openly naked pyramid scheme masquerading as art that’s designed to make the rich richer and, despite being reviled by large, continues to succeed in bewildering fashion.Greatest Band Name of All Time.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Nov 19, 2021 10:07:58 GMT -5
They’re definitely not going to address on air the firing of their talent. An aside, but are they doing that battle royal again this year? I haven’t seen that Clearly that's not what I meant, come on now. I mean more kayfabe reasoning like, "Oh no, ______ was taken out backstage and will be out for some time" sort of thing like they did with other people in the past. Someone was saying they did but I guess they might have been mistaken. Right. They haven't actually outright acknowledged releases on-screen lately with the exception of Heath Slater last year when they ran that little angle and then back when Punk was shooting on Johnny Ace about why guys like Masters and Harry Smith were let go.
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Post by CeilingFan on Nov 19, 2021 10:09:39 GMT -5
Just saw this, and wow... My heart goes out to Tegan and Drake. Tegan, they dropped the ball on even before she was injured again. At one point she was female KOR, for a small moment in time she was nothing but potential. And Spud's twitter video reminded me why years ago, for a time, he was the sexiest dude in wrestling. There's a lot to be said for confidence and swagger. But they released the ENTIRETY of Hit Row...like this isn't budget cuts, this is sending a message. Like when Bray was the only one released, that was clearly a message being sent. So is this. And they call them up, just to fire them, so the 30 days goes to 90...that's some calculated bullshit right there. At this rate AEW's going to HAVE to split into two roster's and have Dynamite and Rampage be their Raw and Smackdown roster equivalents. It's already over-crowded as it is. They're not going to, ofc, but it would help the situation, and if there's one company I can trust would do two separate roster's correctly, it's them. I support the idea of a AEW Brand Extension, as long as the Champions can appear on both shows.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Nov 19, 2021 10:15:31 GMT -5
Clearly that's not what I meant, come on now. I mean more kayfabe reasoning like, "Oh no, ______ was taken out backstage and will be out for some time" sort of thing like they did with other people in the past. Someone was saying they did but I guess they might have been mistaken. Right. They haven't actually outright acknowledged releases on-screen lately with the exception of Heath Slater last year when they ran that little angle and then back when Punk was shooting on Johnny Ace about why guys like Masters and Harry Smith were let go. It's more just the idea of writing out the character so that the audience doesn't go "Where did that guy go?" like, for as much as we didn't know it at the time, The Fiend being written off or Rob Conway losing a match to Jeff Hardy and Vince firing him afterwards since Conway said he'd quit if he lost, just stuff like that. Even minor characters deserve a throwaway line of why they're not on the show after being on for so many weeks of the year.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2021 10:34:58 GMT -5
They’re definitely not going to address on air the firing of their talent. An aside, but are they doing that battle royal again this year? I haven’t seen that Clearly that's not what I meant, come on now. I mean more kayfabe reasoning like, "Oh no, ______ was taken out backstage and will be out for some time" sort of thing like they did with other people in the past. Someone was saying they did but I guess they might have been mistaken. This is going to sound like snark, but it’s just an honest observation. They can’t even coherently explain the stories as they intend them to be presented on television, how can we expect them to explain unexpected or unanticipated events on the fly? There’s clearly some tail wagging the dog going on with WWE, when it comes to these releases. If Drake Maverick’s release was imminent, then why did he just win the 24/7 Title and get involved with a “storyline” with Reggie on RAW? If John Morrison’s release was imminent, why did he just wrestle Shelton Benjamin on an episode of Main Event that isn’t even going to air in the company’s biggest market until after his release? If Hit Row’s release was imminent, why were they in the battle royal in the first place? If Braun Strowman’s release was imminent, why was he actively being promoted on Twitter literally the night before? It’s pretty clear that the writers, social media team, etc… aren’t made aware of the fact that these releases are coming. That’s a very unenviable position to be in, trying to write a weekly television show, but not knowing if the performers you’re featuring are going to be available week-to-week. I honestly think that’s a lot of the reason why there’s such a heavy focus on such a select few people in WWE. It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy, really. People get cut because they can’t get over, but they don’t get featured because they might get cut.
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Dub H
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Posts: 48,489
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Post by Dub H on Nov 19, 2021 10:38:43 GMT -5
If you say those talents have close to a decade left still, I don’t think the next wave needs to already be here. Seems like plenty of talent. There’s also going to be new main eventers potentially created by AEW over the next 10 years that may create bidding wars. They could also reverse course on who they want to hire and develop at any point. That AEW point is a very good one. There is going to be a wrestler who breaks out and becomes a main player in AEW and then signs for WWE further down the line. And when that happens, it will open the possibility of others doing it too. Its all one way at the moment, but give it a few years and there will be a good bit of back and forth. And this will be different to Triple H signing hot indie talents to stash in NXT 1.0, cause when they sign a big AEW name you'll have ready made popular talents with years of weekly television and PPVs under their belts. You know none of that matters to Vince. Just look at every single WCW talent.I'm sure he would sign on the base of taking off a big wrestler from then, but actually using him is another story. And I feel like this in special is a big motive why it will take a looong time for it to happen,if it happens.You are risking burning a bridge on a well paying TV Show , with a guaranteed spot so you go work for a guy that could very well fire you next month because you have the wrong accent.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Nov 19, 2021 10:40:20 GMT -5
Clearly that's not what I meant, come on now. I mean more kayfabe reasoning like, "Oh no, ______ was taken out backstage and will be out for some time" sort of thing like they did with other people in the past. Someone was saying they did but I guess they might have been mistaken. This is going to sound like snark, but it’s just an honest observation. They can’t even coherently explain the stories as they intend them to be presented on television, how can we expect them to explain unexpected or unanticipated events on the fly? There’s clearly some tail wagging the dog going on with WWE, when it comes to these releases. If Drake Maverick’s release was imminent, then why did he just win the 24/7 Title and get involved with a “storyline” with Reggie on RAW? If John Morrison’s release was imminent, why did he just wrestle Shelton Benjamin on an episode of Main Event that isn’t even going to air in the company’s biggest market until after his release? If Hit Row’s release was imminent, why were they in the battle royal in the first place. If Braun Strowman’s release was imminent, why was he actively being promoted on Twitter literally the night before? It’s pretty clear that the writers, social media team, etc… aren’t made aware of the fact that these releases are coming. That’s a very unenviable position to be in, trying to write a weekly television show, but not knowing if the performers you’re featuring are going to be available week-to-week. I honestly think that’s a lot of the reason why there’s such a heavy focus on such a select few people in WWE. It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy, really. People get cut because they can’t get over, but they don’t get featured because they might get cut. Oh, you're likely absolutely right about all of that, it's just a wider point that if the company itself isn't going to respect its own product, there isn't really a reason to expect the viewers to either, especially the viewers that aren't as online as we are. Outside of the actual talent and their loved ones, they're the most I feel for in all this because if there's someone I like and they're gone without much explanation, it'd take some of the enthusiasm for watching away. Someone was likely a fan of B-Fab or the rest of Hit Row or even Tegan Nox and rooting for her and Shotzi to win the tag titles.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2021 10:42:59 GMT -5
I kinda saw the writing on the wall when they didn't even bother putting Tegan in those backstage segments with the rest of the Raw women. I hope she gets some work with Impact or something.
Hit Row getting released is just baffling, but I can't even work up the energy to get mad anymore.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2021 10:43:47 GMT -5
This is going to sound like snark, but it’s just an honest observation. They can’t even coherently explain the stories as they intend them to be presented on television, how can we expect them to explain unexpected or unanticipated events on the fly? There’s clearly some tail wagging the dog going on with WWE, when it comes to these releases. If Drake Maverick’s release was imminent, then why did he just win the 24/7 Title and get involved with a “storyline” with Reggie on RAW? If John Morrison’s release was imminent, why did he just wrestle Shelton Benjamin on an episode of Main Event that isn’t even going to air in the company’s biggest market until after his release? If Hit Row’s release was imminent, why were they in the battle royal in the first place. If Braun Strowman’s release was imminent, why was he actively being promoted on Twitter literally the night before? It’s pretty clear that the writers, social media team, etc… aren’t made aware of the fact that these releases are coming. That’s a very unenviable position to be in, trying to write a weekly television show, but not knowing if the performers you’re featuring are going to be available week-to-week. I honestly think that’s a lot of the reason why there’s such a heavy focus on such a select few people in WWE. It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy, really. People get cut because they can’t get over, but they don’t get featured because they might get cut. Oh, you're likely absolutely right about all of that, it's just a wider point that if the company itself isn't going to respect its own product, there isn't really a reason to expect the viewers to either, especially the viewers that aren't as online as we are. Outside of the actual talent and their loved ones, they're the most I feel in all this because if there's someone I like and they're gone without much explanation, it'd take some of the enthusiasm for watching away. I agree 100%. My personal “I’m pretty much done with WWE” moment was when Ciampa and Gargano showed up on the main roster shows as great friends when their blood feud down in NXT was still unresolved. That stuff is insulting to the viewers, and if the company doesn’t care to explain anything, why should we care to watch? I think just ignoring when previously featured performers just up and disappear is along those same lines.
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Post by polarbearpete on Nov 19, 2021 10:46:06 GMT -5
That AEW point is a very good one. There is going to be a wrestler who breaks out and becomes a main player in AEW and then signs for WWE further down the line. And when that happens, it will open the possibility of others doing it too. Its all one way at the moment, but give it a few years and there will be a good bit of back and forth. And this will be different to Triple H signing hot indie talents to stash in NXT 1.0, cause when they sign a big AEW name you'll have ready made popular talents with years of weekly television and PPVs under their belts. You know none of that matters to Vince. Just look at every single WCW talent.I'm sure he would sign on the base of taking off a big wrestler from then, but actually using him is another story. And I feel like this in special is a big motive why it will take a looong time for it to happen,if it happens.You are risking burning a bridge on a well paying TV Show , with a guaranteed spot so you go work for a guy that could very well fire you next month because you have the wrong accent. Every single WCW talent? Jericho? Benoit? Guerrero? Booker? Austin? Foley? HHH? Taker?
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Post by WoodStoner1 on Nov 19, 2021 10:49:41 GMT -5
Not going to get myself in discussion about this, as usual. Too stressful and too upsetting/disappointing.
I will offer this hot take: NXT should be back as a Peacock exclusive, tops. Or even, go back to having a low key developmental system like in the OVW, etc. days. Quietly develop those hosses they want, then debut them on the main roster. Less expectations and less mainstream programming to make the roster cuts extra jarring.
I get it, they feel the original didn't work because they couldn't decisively beat AEW. I blame that for the changes. But what's done is done.
And we know people like Breakker, etc. will have a better chance on the mains as they are Vince creations, and he's ALWAYS preferred his direct creations. Come to it, I think most of these cuts are to push out the "old" NXT (yes I heard Demolition lost the tag team titles...just restating the obvious...) Other businesses do the same when they change their images, I'd imagine.
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Dub H
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Captain Pixel: the Game Master
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Post by Dub H on Nov 19, 2021 10:53:02 GMT -5
You know none of that matters to Vince. Just look at every single WCW talent.I'm sure he would sign on the base of taking off a big wrestler from then, but actually using him is another story. And I feel like this in special is a big motive why it will take a looong time for it to happen,if it happens.You are risking burning a bridge on a well paying TV Show , with a guaranteed spot so you go work for a guy that could very well fire you next month because you have the wrong accent. Every single WCW talent? Jericho? Benoit? Guerrero? Booker? Austin? Foley? HHH? Taker? Alright Mr Pendatic post-war WCW talent.I was even gonna put Booker as an possible exception. Of course there will be people who Vince likes,but there was a definite brush aside of very popular WCW talent.I'm not saying every talent is gonna be cast aside,but how they were irregurarely treated in a way it didnt match how they are used in WCW.Most of the guys pointed out were not made in WCW but on WWE (Also I didnt even know HHH and Taker event went to WCW) Like how many of thsoe were actually top guys on WCW as the topic said,le
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Nov 19, 2021 10:54:09 GMT -5
Not going to get myself in discussion about this, as usual. Too stressful and too upsetting/disappointing. I will offer this hot take: NXT should be back as a Peacock exclusive, tops. Or even, go back to having a low key developmental system like in the OVW, etc. days. Quietly develop those hosses they want, then debut them on the main roster. Less expectations and less mainstream programming to make the roster cuts extra jarring. I actually don't think this is a hot take, it's a pretty good call. Interest in NXT is waning right now and we'd need to know the contractual details to be certain, but I can't imagine USA is pleased with a show drawing 512K viewers in prime time.
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Post by Feyrhausen on Nov 19, 2021 10:54:19 GMT -5
Because some of us have seen the alternatives and prefer what we know. ROH lost me when they kept the Briscoes after the flag incident, NJPW lost me with the neverending Okada And Bullet Club show, and AAA burned me BAD the times I tried to watch. And AEW's got a LOT of reasons why I will never give them a second of my time. So as much as I hate Vince and his Four Stooges, WWE! WITH ALL THY FAULTS- this is why WWE are the way that they are because they know people will keep watching no matter what because people don’t want to watch alternatives. well what happens when all that’s left of the roster are people who can’t even do clotheslines properly I think at this point they would love to do away with audiences and live shows and have everything edited to the point where rookies look like Harts. But audiences and live shows are what get them those inflated sports tv deals.
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Totorob101
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Post by Totorob101 on Nov 19, 2021 10:55:54 GMT -5
Not going to get myself in discussion about this, as usual. Too stressful and too upsetting/disappointing. I will offer this hot take: NXT should be back as a Peacock exclusive, tops. Or even, go back to having a low key developmental system like in the OVW, etc. days. Quietly develop those hosses they want, then debut them on the main roster. Less expectations and less mainstream programming to make the roster cuts extra jarring. Agreed,i'd actually just scrap nxt altogether and develop their talent offscreen,perhaps cut 205 live and main event to,trim more of the roster and pretty much go back to the basics for tv,perhaps a small roster would be best for the company with an occasional call up once in the while.
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MrElijah
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Post by MrElijah on Nov 19, 2021 10:58:52 GMT -5
WWE has become the NFT of televised entertainment: An openly naked pyramid scheme masquerading as art that’s designed to make the rich richer and, despite being reviled by large, continues to succeed in bewildering fashion. Why are you talking about Global Force Gold?
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Nov 19, 2021 11:00:41 GMT -5
He'd probably get a severance package, if so. Employees have it better than the contractors.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Nov 19, 2021 11:01:37 GMT -5
Not going to get myself in discussion about this, as usual. Too stressful and too upsetting/disappointing. I will offer this hot take: NXT should be back as a Peacock exclusive, tops. Or even, go back to having a low key developmental system like in the OVW, etc. days. Quietly develop those hosses they want, then debut them on the main roster. Less expectations and less mainstream programming to make the roster cuts extra jarring. I actually don't think this is a hot take, it's a pretty good call. Interest in NXT is waning right now and we'd need to know the contractual details to be certain, but I can't imagine USA is pleased with a show drawing 512K viewers in prime time. Like, I feel there is a real benefit to the idea of viewers being able to see how the sausage gets made so to speak so I've always been happy with the idea of promoting developmental as a show of sorts but TV doesn't really help in doing that and never really did. The bigger concern for USA isn't so much the viewership as much as the demo. Trying to aim young but getting older and older as time goes on, basically making yourself a show old people watch to feel cool? Not a great look.
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