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Post by Final Countdown Jones on May 2, 2022 11:53:47 GMT -5
How the hell are you supposed to learn shit in 90 days. That's not wrestling school, that's a glorified fantasy camp. WWE wants to pivot into homegrown emphasis, but you can't have a roster of people you jumpstart that impatiently. It's going to emphasize signing on as many people as they can and burning them out in a quick bid for only the rarest possible talents sprinkled in with people who suck but management is dead certain they'll be big. We're getting the mid '00s all over again. Get ready. It's WWEECW time. Pretty sure your average wrestling school is 90-120 days. Lance Storm used to run 3 month camps if I’m not mistaken. Also, I still don’t think it’s purely “90 days to be a star” it’s “are you better on day 90 then on day 1? Is there legitimate growth that we can work with?” which is probably an evaluation that needs to be happening on a regular basis with the people having no experience. 90 days is plenty of time to get a reasonable assessment if a person has any chance of improving or if they stalled out after week 2 and are still struggling to do a basic flat back. Having been to local student shows to support a friend, a few months of wrestling school gets you the very basics down. That doesn't get you TV-ready. Nowhere near. And beyond that, I don't think they're going to be quite so forgiving. They'll want people for whom it clicks instantly and people who they're high on, and someone who needs more time in the oven isn't going to get that kind of patience. I think the days of say Street Profits getting several years to sort their shit out is over, but that's what the team needed. They're going to want to cycle people out fast on these cycles and it's going to cause problems.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2022 11:55:43 GMT -5
Okay, honest question: What is WWE's track record with wrestlers that they've taken with no pre-existing wrestling training whatsoever and built from the ground up? Names that I've come up with that you think are 100% WWE from the bottom up aren't. Orton was trained by his father, Batista was trained by Afa, Roman was trained by his family for a bit before going into developmental. That just leaves Brock, Angle, and Cena as the only big names I can think of who spent their whole lives in nothing but the WWE system, and that's a hell of a standard to live up to. Cena spent two years outside of WWE before signing his developmental contract. UPW but I thought they were basically the OVW of the west coast
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Post by 06vwgti on May 2, 2022 12:02:00 GMT -5
It sounds like the original tough enough model just on a wider scale
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on May 2, 2022 12:02:48 GMT -5
Pretty sure your average wrestling school is 90-120 days. Lance Storm used to run 3 month camps if I’m not mistaken. Also, I still don’t think it’s purely “90 days to be a star” it’s “are you better on day 90 then on day 1? Is there legitimate growth that we can work with?” which is probably an evaluation that needs to be happening on a regular basis with the people having no experience. 90 days is plenty of time to get a reasonable assessment if a person has any chance of improving or if they stalled out after week 2 and are still struggling to do a basic flat back. To be fair they have a bizarre way of judging talent. Okay, that point I can’t argue at all
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2022 12:06:58 GMT -5
WWE is playing a very dangerous game by shunning the independent pipe line for blank slates.
Like Niside said this is no longer a case of people beating down the door to work for WWE , we are in a very IMO atleast unique period where more and more people are banking on themselves , getting away from the mainstream crap because now you can make way more money than WWE is willing to pay atleast to the mid to lower level talent and you get to be creatively free....no senile old f*** changing shit on you on such a dime to where you probably don't even know what you are gonna eat that day.
And now there is a rival company with comparable/more money where an Indy wrestler if they want can infact go to and not get belittled because they worked a show for 25 people to live their dream.
In the long term WWE closing that independent wrestler pipeline is going to be their undoing....atleast untill Stephanie and by proxy HHH take over if they do and reverse that shit.
And WWE banking on blank slates to find their next Cena etc....lets not forget they were just about to fire their future cash cow untill Stephanie just lucked into hearing him rap.
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Post by oxbaker on May 2, 2022 12:44:15 GMT -5
I mean, they're just repeating what Meltzer said on Observer Radio. He basically said that unless you're a clear star in NXT, you're on a 90 contract and if you don't make enough improvement, you'll be replaced by some other athlete. Except that’s not really what he said, is it? He said they’re going to be bringing people in and letting people go on 90-day cycles. He did not say that if you’re brought in on Jan. 1 you have til March 30 to prove yourself or be cut. Those are two different things. If they bring in people on Jan. 1 and bring in new people on April 1, it doesn’t mean anyone from the Jan. 1 group is being let go for the new group. Just that there will be cuts and adds every 90 days. The entire group from Jan. 1 could last til the summer before the first cut is made and the people cut on April 1 are earlier signings/tryout people. To simplify, what was previously reported was six-month evaluation period. What’s being reported now is new signings/cuts every 90 days. Those can both be true. You bring in a group Jan. 1 and they have til June 30 to be evaluated. They bring in a group April 1 and they have til Sept. 30 to be evaluated. So 90-day cycles and six-month evaluations. I think a lot of people are misconstruing what Meltzer said (which is common since speaking in coherent sentences isn’t his strength). He didn’t say anywhere that I could see, not in the quotes attributed to him. It was 90-day cycles, not that it’s 90 days and you’re gone. It also doesn’t say ‘match-ready’ or ‘main event ready’ in 90 days. It says ‘show improvement.’ That’s petty basic. If you are brought in and it’s clear after 90 days that you’re not getting it, you get released. It’s not like they are promising any kind of long-term job security. It’s a tryout period. The NFL is about to try out hundreds of undrafted free agents over the course of a few weeks in mini-camp. Most will be cut. A few will be invited back. And let’s look at the alternative — instead of getting paid (let’s say for 90 days) to learn, you could go pay someone else at a wrestling school and move to where that is and at the end of it you’re out a few thousand dollars (plus room and board unless it’s in your hometown) and maybe you get a match in front of 25 people at a bingo hall as your ‘graduation.’ Then you’ve got to go prove yourself in the indies for a few hotdog and handshake matches and then you start making gas money to travel to matches.
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Post by oxbaker on May 2, 2022 12:50:29 GMT -5
WWE is playing a very dangerous game by shunning the independent pipe line for blank slates. Like Niside said this is no longer a case of people beating down the door to work for WWE , we are in a very IMO atleast unique period where more and more people are banking on themselves , getting away from the mainstream crap because now you can make way more money than WWE is willing to pay atleast to the mid to lower level talent and you get to be creatively free....no senile old f*** changing shit on you on such a dime to where you probably don't even know what you are gonna eat that day. And now there is a rival company with comparable/more money where an Indy wrestler if they want can infact go to and not get belittled because they worked a show for 25 people to live their dream. In the long term WWE closing that independent wrestler pipeline is going to be their undoing....atleast untill Stephanie and by proxy HHH take over if they do and reverse that shit. And WWE banking on blank slates to find their next Cena etc....lets not forget they were just about to fire their future cash cow untill Stephanie just lucked into hearing him rap. We shall see what their future hiring practices are. I don’t think anyone has insinuated that they’re never going to sign anyone who has worked in the indies. Just that they’re not signing indie darlings to stock the developmental shelves in NXT. What I expect to happen (and none of us know how it will play out) is that they’ll sign Impact and NJPW and AEW and maybe AAA, etc., talent when they feel that talent is worth signing, and that instead of being in ‘developmental’ in an NXT super-indie brand, they’ll probably be on the main roster. Instead of MLW to NXT to Raw, it might be MLW to Raw. I do think the days of the signing up gobs and gobs of indie talent to populate the NXT roster are over. That doesn’t mean ‘nope, never gonna sign another indie guy.’ I mean (Austin) Theory and (Matt) Riddle are thriving as indie hires and were probably ready to be on the main roster as soon as they signed.
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Post by Allie Kitsune on May 2, 2022 12:51:00 GMT -5
Part of me wonders if this is also WWE trying to trash the independent scene. WWE has the mentality of first impressions are all that matters. So they throw some wrestlers in national TV when they are very green, let them flounder, then fire them. So these wrestlers may go elsewhere and improve but to some viewers they will always have the NXT stink on them. Which if true WWE would be trying to hurt many peoples lives for no real reason other than their ego. WWE is growing increasing irrelevant to the independent scene. Those in NXT's revolving door on the 90-day circuit? They'll barely get TV time before they're sent up or out. They can return to the indies, build up their resumes and develop their careers, but they'll also have the darker side of WWE experience. Few in the indies are beating down Vince's door anymore, not when they can keep their characters, keep their side hustles, and keep their ability to go everywhere and make comparable money. WWE's new focus on college athletes being trained and developed through the PC and NXT systems is perhaps a response to the trend and perhaps a last-ditch effort to recruit talent on the company's terms. Again, the releases are increasingly more a case of contracts expiring without renewal than outright cuts. It'll be the attrition that brings WWE's roster into a critically small mass, the departures that WWE could have prevented but didn't. I think the issue is more with those exact "Next in Line" types who they recruited from scratch, having the stigma upon them if they want to continue their career. They'll have zero indie experience to fall back on, fans will likely have little to no time for them if they attempt to show up anywhere else.
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Post by MrElijah on May 2, 2022 12:51:07 GMT -5
Okay, honest question: What is WWE's track record with wrestlers that they've taken with no pre-existing wrestling training whatsoever and built from the ground up? Names that I've come up with that you think are 100% WWE from the bottom up aren't. Orton was trained by his father, Batista was trained by Afa, Roman was trained by his family for a bit before going into developmental. That just leaves Brock, Angle, and Cena as the only big names I can think of who spent their whole lives in nothing but the WWE system, and that's a hell of a standard to live up to. Wasn't Angle trained by Tom Pritchard and the Funks?
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on May 2, 2022 12:59:09 GMT -5
I mean, they're just repeating what Meltzer said on Observer Radio. He basically said that unless you're a clear star in NXT, you're on a 90 contract and if you don't make enough improvement, you'll be replaced by some other athlete. Except that’s not really what he said, is it? He said they’re going to be bringing people in and letting people go on 90-day cycles. He did not say that if you’re brought in on Jan. 1 you have til March 30 to prove yourself or be cut. Those are two different things. If they bring in people on Jan. 1 and bring in new people on April 1, it doesn’t mean anyone from the Jan. 1 group is being let go for the new group. Just that there will be cuts and adds every 90 days. The entire group from Jan. 1 could last til the summer before the first cut is made and the people cut on April 1 are earlier signings/tryout people. I think a lot of people are misconstruing what Meltzer said (which is common since speaking in coherent sentences isn’t his strength). He didn’t say anywhere that I could see, not in the quotes attributed to him. It was 90-day cycles, not that it’s 90 days and you’re gone. It also doesn’t say ‘match-ready’ or ‘main event ready’ in 90 days. It says ‘show improvement.’ That’s petty basic. If you are brought in and it’s clear after 90 days that you’re not getting it, you get released. It’s not like they are promising any kind of long-term job security. It’s a tryout period. The NFL is about to try out hundreds of undrafted free agents over the course of a few weeks in mini-camp. Most will be cut. A few will be invited back. And let’s look at the alternative — instead of getting paid (let’s say for 90 days) to learn, you could go pay someone else at a wrestling school and move to where that is and at the end of it you’re out a few thousand dollars (plus room and board unless it’s in your hometown) and maybe you get a match in front of 25 people at a bingo hall as your ‘graduation.’ Then you’ve got to go prove yourself in the indies for a few hotdog and handshake matches and then you start making gas money to travel to matches. I think the difference between my summary and yours is fairly small and don't think it's worth arguing. If it wasn't clear, my understanding of what Dave said was you have 90 days to show improvement or else you are risk of getting cut. And that seems to be playing out in practice.
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Post by oxbaker on May 2, 2022 13:38:40 GMT -5
Except that’s not really what he said, is it? He said they’re going to be bringing people in and letting people go on 90-day cycles. He did not say that if you’re brought in on Jan. 1 you have til March 30 to prove yourself or be cut. Those are two different things. If they bring in people on Jan. 1 and bring in new people on April 1, it doesn’t mean anyone from the Jan. 1 group is being let go for the new group. Just that there will be cuts and adds every 90 days. The entire group from Jan. 1 could last til the summer before the first cut is made and the people cut on April 1 are earlier signings/tryout people. I think a lot of people are misconstruing what Meltzer said (which is common since speaking in coherent sentences isn’t his strength). He didn’t say anywhere that I could see, not in the quotes attributed to him. It was 90-day cycles, not that it’s 90 days and you’re gone. It also doesn’t say ‘match-ready’ or ‘main event ready’ in 90 days. It says ‘show improvement.’ That’s petty basic. If you are brought in and it’s clear after 90 days that you’re not getting it, you get released. It’s not like they are promising any kind of long-term job security. It’s a tryout period. The NFL is about to try out hundreds of undrafted free agents over the course of a few weeks in mini-camp. Most will be cut. A few will be invited back. And let’s look at the alternative — instead of getting paid (let’s say for 90 days) to learn, you could go pay someone else at a wrestling school and move to where that is and at the end of it you’re out a few thousand dollars (plus room and board unless it’s in your hometown) and maybe you get a match in front of 25 people at a bingo hall as your ‘graduation.’ Then you’ve got to go prove yourself in the indies for a few hotdog and handshake matches and then you start making gas money to travel to matches. I think the difference between my summary and yours is fairly small and don't think it's worth arguing. If it wasn't clear, my understanding of what Dave said was you have 90 days to show improvement or else you are risk of getting cut. And that seems to be playing out in practice. It’s a difference of 90 more days. You can cycle signings and releases every 90 days and still give six months of evaluations. Group signed Jan. 1 has til end of June to evaluate, group signed April 1 has til end of October, etc. I didn’t look up every single one of the recent releases but I don’t think any of them were signed just 90 days ago. Maybe one or two were, but most have been there longer.
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Post by Zombie Mod on May 2, 2022 14:02:26 GMT -5
so for the time being signing to wwe developmental is mainly to get a payday for 90 days, training, access to the performance centre, networking with soon to be released wrestlers and praying they dont take too big an interest in you so you dont end up on tv with a new name and a terrible character you're supposed to make work and booted when it doesn't.
wrestlers who just get wrestling almost instantly are rare, and wrestlers who just have that it factor are even rarer.
I think Vince has forgotten even the biggest name stars he had all took some time to develop into the major stars they became, The Rock wasn't The Rock instantly neither was Stone Cold.
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Post by Alyce: Old Media Enthusiast on May 2, 2022 14:22:10 GMT -5
Someone's just asked for their releaase
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Post by asuka007 on May 2, 2022 14:26:04 GMT -5
The two who come to mind immediately as possibilities are Finn and Alexa.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2022 14:27:54 GMT -5
Notable name there are a few that come to mind but Finn's name is the immediate first one.
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Post by Push R Truth on May 2, 2022 14:29:33 GMT -5
They'll release Elias because they have a younger and more tasseled version of him
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Post by mistery on May 2, 2022 14:35:55 GMT -5
Alexa is the most prominent name that comes to mind for me, anyways. She's been talking a bunch about how unhappy she is as of late and how she isn't being utilized to her fullest potential.
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Post by Push R Truth on May 2, 2022 14:41:38 GMT -5
Alexa is the most prominent name that comes to mind for me, anyways. She's been talking a bunch about how unhappy she is as of late and how she isn't being utilized to her fullest potential. So I'm really tired this afternoon and I started to laugh out loud when I read this because for some stupid ass reason this is what my brain saw: I think I need to go take a nap but damn it I'm still giggly
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Post by Raw is Doodie101 on May 2, 2022 14:51:53 GMT -5
I think I look at NXT a lot more from a Hard Knocks/Arena League type of product. It's clearly meant to be developmental, see if this person has it or not product.
I think people place too much thought into "this person shouldn't be on tv" or "this person botched on tv". Meh. You see botches happening with the same frequency on other shows. It happens. The show doesn't need to be polished or perfect. Does a person show potential to be someone on the main roster. That's how I look at it.
They're taking much harder sports to feel how they look at the next generation of wrestlers. I hate that people are losing their jobs but I think the doom & gloom is so overboard. Like whatever strategy that they think they have isn't going to bear true results for the next 3-5 years. It could be the dumbest shit that doesn't work long-term but maybe it does? But we don't know at this point.
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Post by Raw is Doodie101 on May 2, 2022 15:01:04 GMT -5
I also haven't heard anything about it being 90 days to improve or get cut. It seems like just looking at the list they've cut people who weren't resigning, didn't have a future on the main roster or weren't improving in the last 6 months.
They didn't release anyone who had just started in the last 90 days. 6 months to show improvement is TOUGH but understandable if you're just looking at people showing progress and trying to get it or they're just not getting it. Rotating athletes in and out of the system and trying to find 1-2 people from every NXT class that can become a player.
At this point, it's just a numbers game similar to the NFL or Basketball.
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