Fans complaining on social media about "lack of violence."

[agent817]

I don't know if this should be on the WWE board, but I could be talking in general. Reddit, Facebook groups, Twitter, anything where people want their voices heard, people be often talking about how they miss the Attitude Era, miss ECW, etc. and how "PG ruined wrestling." I know things are a little edgier in AEW, but not like how it was in the 1990s, nor are they trying to be Attitude reborn.

The thing about this is that you have people talking about how things were better when it was TV-14 and stuff. Not to mention that fans online complained about the crash pad under the ramp that Chris Jericho fell on. The man is 50 and can't take major bumps like he used to. I also must note that sometimes it can be hard to watch deathmatch wrestling or even some other hardcore matches.

So do people really long for the days of blood and violence? It's bad enough that some bumps can cause careers to end sooner than one would plan.

[chaosschoolproject]

There's a reason why compilation videos of hardcore, violent moments are popular in YouTube or just social media in general. It's the remnants of the car crash TV lifestyle which peaked in the attitude era. Also, with so much content in all genres, people's attention span is greatly reduced to prefer watching either highlight videos or short bite bized consumables particularly on your phone.
However, a factor is that most of these fans who want violence over the safety of the wrestlers, more than likely are not aware of CTE, painkiller addictions, risk of paralysis and so on. Or to be really cynical, they just see wrestlers as stunt men and just expect them to hurt and injure themselves for our entertainment and not care about the long term side effects. It's a pessimistic take buts it's similar viewpoint of a contingent of racing fans who only watch it for the chance of a car crash.

[DSR]

Jun 22, 2021 0:56:54 GMT -5 chaosschoolproject said:

There's a reason why compilation videos of hardcore, violent moments are popular in YouTube or just social media in general. It's the remnants of the car crash TV lifestyle which peaked in the attitude era. Also, with so much content in all genres, people's attention span is greatly reduced to prefer watching either highlight videos or short bite bized consumables particularly on your phone.
However, a factor is that most of these fans who want violence over the safety of the wrestlers, more than likely are not aware of CTE, painkiller addictions, risk of paralysis and so on. Or to be really cynical, they just see wrestlers as stunt men and just expect them to hurt and injure themselves for our entertainment and not care about the long term side effects. It's a pessimistic take buts it's similar viewpoint of a contingent of racing fans who only watch it for the chance of a car crash.

Also, compilation/highlight videos are literally just the highlights, giving one an idealized view of the past and making it difficult to compare to the complete picture of what you watch in the present day.

Admittedly, there was a sense of unpredictability and storylines felt like they had more weight to them up and down the card back in that era. But I think you can have that stuff and maintain the PG rating if you wanted to.

[A Platypus Rave]

of my many issues with the WWE for years... lack of blood has never been one of them.

I don't need people to purposely stab themselves or give themselves brain damage for my amusement.

It's a violent and unsafe trade by definition... purposely making it more unsafe simply to be shocking is massively unnecessary and the issue is always going to be escalation... what's shocking once isn't shocking 10 times...

It's not just wrestling that's stopped being as violent too... Skateboarding in teh 90's used to have all sorts of bail tapes... showing sometimes pretty gruesome looking falls... and that has mostly entirely stopped.

The Tony Hawk remake pretty much completely removed the sick falls from the game... replacing the ragdolling bone crunching with a quick rewind animation to get you back on the board.

[sfvega]

Jun 21, 2021 21:00:19 GMT -5 agent817 said:

I don't know if this should be on the WWE board, but I could be talking in general. Reddit, Facebook groups, Twitter, anything where people want their voices heard, people be often talking about how they miss the Attitude Era, miss ECW, etc. and how "PG ruined wrestling." I know things are a little edgier in AEW, but not like how it was in the 1990s, nor are they trying to be Attitude reborn.

The thing about this is that you have people talking about how things were better when it was TV-14 and stuff. Not to mention that fans online complained about the crash pad under the ramp that Chris Jericho fell on. The man is 50 and can't take major bumps like he used to. I also must note that sometimes it can be hard to watch deathmatch wrestling or even some other hardcore matches.

So do people really long for the days of blood and violence? It's bad enough that some bumps can cause careers to end sooner than one would plan.

He is too old to be taking big, unnecessary bumps. So why write a match around him taking one? It making sense to protect him doesn't mean that it didn't look bad or that the decision to have him specifically do the spot makes sense. As much as AEW does right, people still pretend like any criticism of the product is unwarranted and that bothers me.

On the topic of a certain segment of wrestling fans' bloodlust, I agree. In the long run, those types of casuals aren't good and major promotions can move on successfully without them. Then if CZW or whoever wants to provide for that niche, that's up to them but I'd be fine with the industry moving on entirely from deathmatch and hardcore wrestling. If you want to do it a hardcore match a couple times a year, I don't care but it's not at all why I watch.

[mcmahonfan85]

I long for the days where wrestlers could throw a chop or a punch without them cutting to a different camera angle to obscure the impact, or setting up a bump and then having the cameraman shaking the camera around like they're having a seizure during an earthquake when the wrestler lands. I mean if a wrestler is going to risk a potential injury in an effort to improve the match, god forbid you can actually see the damn thing.

[lucas_lee]

Jun 22, 2021 5:01:14 GMT -5 sfvega said:

Jun 21, 2021 21:00:19 GMT -5 agent817 said:

I don't know if this should be on the WWE board, but I could be talking in general. Reddit, Facebook groups, Twitter, anything where people want their voices heard, people be often talking about how they miss the Attitude Era, miss ECW, etc. and how "PG ruined wrestling." I know things are a little edgier in AEW, but not like how it was in the 1990s, nor are they trying to be Attitude reborn.

The thing about this is that you have people talking about how things were better when it was TV-14 and stuff. Not to mention that fans online complained about the crash pad under the ramp that Chris Jericho fell on. The man is 50 and can't take major bumps like he used to. I also must note that sometimes it can be hard to watch deathmatch wrestling or even some other hardcore matches.

So do people really long for the days of blood and violence? It's bad enough that some bumps can cause careers to end sooner than one would plan.

He is too old to be taking big, unnecessary bumps. So why write a match around him taking one? It making sense to protect him doesn't mean that it didn't look bad or that the decision to have him specifically do the spot makes sense. As much as AEW does right, people still pretend like any criticism of the product is unwarranted and that bothers me.

On the topic of a certain segment of wrestling fans' bloodlust, I agree. In the long run, those types of casuals aren't good and major promotions can move on successfully without them. Then if CZW or whoever wants to provide for that niche, that's up to them but I'd be fine with the industry moving on entirely from deathmatch and hardcore wrestling. If you want to do it a hardcore match a couple times a year, I don't care but it's not at all why I watch.

I'm a massive fan of deathmatch wrestling so I firmly disagree with you. But its not for everyone so I get it

[EvenBaldobombHasAJob]

Jun 22, 2021 8:13:13 GMT -5 lucas_lee said:

Jun 22, 2021 5:01:14 GMT -5 sfvega said:

He is too old to be taking big, unnecessary bumps. So why write a match around him taking one? It making sense to protect him doesn't mean that it didn't look bad or that the decision to have him specifically do the spot makes sense. As much as AEW does right, people still pretend like any criticism of the product is unwarranted and that bothers me.

On the topic of a certain segment of wrestling fans' bloodlust, I agree. In the long run, those types of casuals aren't good and major promotions can move on successfully without them. Then if CZW or whoever wants to provide for that niche, that's up to them but I'd be fine with the industry moving on entirely from deathmatch and hardcore wrestling. If you want to do it a hardcore match a couple times a year, I don't care but it's not at all why I watch.

I'm a massive fan of deathmatch wrestling so I firmly disagree with you. But its not for everyone so I get it

I'll take the third option. There's definitely a place for death match wrestling, but it should be kept far away from any major wrestling promotion. It has its niche but I'd hate to see say Kenny Omega and Hangman Page carving each other up with box cutters just because some chowderheads think AEW or WWE aren't violent enough instead of watching GCW.

[chaosschoolproject]

Death match wrestling always has a place in its own niche. All creative outlets have niches and it would be unjust to deny it and its audience. The important factor is that talent aren't being taken advantage of and not destroying their bodies for a pittance or to levels outwith their comfort zone/to excess.

Blood is an interesting matter in current times. I got used to no blood from watching WWE but was excited to see it make a mainstream return via AEW. However, through watching AEW each week, I'm already desensitised to it as it felt like it happened every other week (an exaggeration and I'm aware of hard way accidents) to the point where Blood and Guts didn't thrill me as much as I expected. Hardcore violence is one of the top spectacles of wrestling as well as bloodshed but for me there is a time and a place.

[thecrusherwi]

I think there is a happy medium. I don’t think they need to go back to the level of violence that ECW and WWF/E had 20-25 years ago. I do think the product could be more violent though, whether it’s shown or implied. When I’m watching Jim Crockett or even the Hogan Era WWF, you aren’t seeing gore or unsafe wrestling, but the show has a feel like someone is going to get hurt. I think it has more to do with selling and doing injury angles than outright having more actual violence that hurts people. If someone gets brutally beaten up, it’s more important that it matters to the story rather than having to look violent. They can increase the violence through storytelling. It sounds silly, but watching the Horsemen break Dusty’s leg or arm or even Yokozuna take out Jim Duggan can give you the same feeling of violence and danger as having the Rock hit Mick Foley in the head with a chair 20 times. They need to just tell their stories better.

[Deleted]

Mance Warner just went through a flaming table. OVW ended a show with a face sleeping with his former valets mom to get revenge on her. These are things that just happened this week. I know there's a lot casual viewer's view point on wrestling if its not from WWE/AEW then it doesn't matter, but instead of complaining about shows you dislike, how about seeking out a show you would enjoy. 20 something years ago all we had was WWF/WCW/ECW, now with streaming and youtube there's dozens of companies to follow.

[bob]

there is a place for blood in wrestling

but it shouldn't be used regularly by any promotion because then their fans will become desensitized to it, making it mean less when someone is busted open

[Cyno]

AEW's had some of the most violent matches I've seen in a mainstream promotion since ECW, including between two women (which I never thought I'd see anywhere outside a niche indie promotion). And it can be too much at times. If that's not enough for fans, I don't know what is besides those niche deathmatch indies like CZW. 

[XIII]

I think that with all we know about blood borne illness etc. that there’s no good reason for wrestlers to be bleeding on each other for the sake of theater. Wrestling isn’t MMA or boxing and (intentional) bleeding seems to be a pointless risk these days.

["Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay]

Big bumps are stupid and dangerous for AEW or CZW guys to do. They're super risky.

But blood diseases aside, most deathmatch wrestling hurts, but it is way safer than it seems. The worst thing that can happen when you're being hit in the back with a barbed wire board is some nasty bleeding, discounting a freak back injury. Lucha wrestling may be super light but one of those flips going awry and your career is over if not your life. Strong style strike wrestling is leaving greats like, was it Kenta Kobashi who is super brain damaged now?

Take Mick Foley as an example. He did shitloads of deathmatch and hardcore wrestling. It wasn't the wire and the Dynamite that has left him the mess he is now. It was bumping on concrete and being hit with chairs, both of which he did constantly whether he was in a deathmatch promotion or not.

I can appreciate the art of good deathmatch wrestling. I think AEW are still finding their feet with it but they keep it rare enough that the spectacle sells even while they perfect the method.

I wish they would never bleed, really, but I get it. And I will take guys gigging once in a while for big matches over any chairs to the head twelve times out of ten.

[Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby]

My gut instinct is that this is the sort of complaint made by someone who's been checked out of wrestling, gave it another try, didn't like what they saw, and grasped for a concrete difference from the good ol' days to explain what was different.

That's not going to be everyone, but I often get that vibe from anyone with a "bring back the Attitude Era/ECW" sort of stance.

[A Platypus Rave]

Jun 22, 2021 5:01:14 GMT -5 sfvega said:

Jun 21, 2021 21:00:19 GMT -5 agent817 said:

I don't know if this should be on the WWE board, but I could be talking in general. Reddit, Facebook groups, Twitter, anything where people want their voices heard, people be often talking about how they miss the Attitude Era, miss ECW, etc. and how "PG ruined wrestling." I know things are a little edgier in AEW, but not like how it was in the 1990s, nor are they trying to be Attitude reborn.

The thing about this is that you have people talking about how things were better when it was TV-14 and stuff. Not to mention that fans online complained about the crash pad under the ramp that Chris Jericho fell on. The man is 50 and can't take major bumps like he used to. I also must note that sometimes it can be hard to watch deathmatch wrestling or even some other hardcore matches.

So do people really long for the days of blood and violence? It's bad enough that some bumps can cause careers to end sooner than one would plan.

He is too old to be taking big, unnecessary bumps. So why write a match around him taking one? It making sense to protect him doesn't mean that it didn't look bad or that the decision to have him specifically do the spot makes sense. As much as AEW does right, people still pretend like any criticism of the product is unwarranted and that bothers me.

On the topic of a certain segment of wrestling fans' bloodlust, I agree. In the long run, those types of casuals aren't good and major promotions can move on successfully without them. Then if CZW or whoever wants to provide for that niche, that's up to them but I'd be fine with the industry moving on entirely from deathmatch and hardcore wrestling. If you want to do it a hardcore match a couple times a year, I don't care but it's not at all why I watch.

the main complaitn I saw against the Jericho bump was more... how poorly it was done/shot and not that Jericho did it at all too.

the crash pad was super obvious (and yes Chris it was a crash pad no matter how much you complain online that it wasn't), and a few other issues with the overall way the spot was edited.


Almost no one complained that he HAD a crash pad... despite the AEW Defense Squad and Tony Khan himself going into oh you people wanted him to land on the concrete, you guys are monsters! when that's not what people were talking about.

[hassanchop]

A wrestler with a violin, hmmmm.....

[Triangle Lancer]

Jun 22, 2021 11:37:57 GMT -5 thecrusherwi said:

I think there is a happy medium. I don’t think they need to go back to the level of violence that ECW and WWF/E had 20-25 years ago. I do think the product could be more violent though, whether it’s shown or implied. When I’m watching Jim Crockett or even the Hogan Era WWF, you aren’t seeing gore or unsafe wrestling, but the show has a feel like someone is going to get hurt. I think it has more to do with selling and doing injury angles than outright having more actual violence that hurts people. If someone gets brutally beaten up, it’s more important that it matters to the story rather than having to look violent. They can increase the violence through storytelling. It sounds silly, but watching the Horsemen break Dusty’s leg or arm or even Yokozuna take out Jim Duggan can give you the same feeling of violence and danger as having the Rock hit Mick Foley in the head with a chair 20 times. They need to just tell their stories better.

I tried to say this 2 or 3 times last night but couldn't find the words or the right way of saying it, so I gave up.

Thank you! You even added my "Horsemen breaking Dusty's leg" idea, top work!

[sdoyle7798]

Jun 21, 2021 21:00:19 GMT -5 agent817 said:

I don't know if this should be on the WWE board, but I could be talking in general. Reddit, Facebook groups, Twitter, anything where people want their voices heard, people be often talking about how they miss the Attitude Era, miss ECW, etc. and how "PG ruined wrestling." I know things are a little edgier in AEW, but not like how it was in the 1990s, nor are they trying to be Attitude reborn.

The thing about this is that you have people talking about how things were better when it was TV-14 and stuff. Not to mention that fans online complained about the crash pad under the ramp that Chris Jericho fell on. The man is 50 and can't take major bumps like he used to. I also must note that sometimes it can be hard to watch deathmatch wrestling or even some other hardcore matches.

So do people really long for the days of blood and violence? It's bad enough that some bumps can cause careers to end sooner than one would plan.

My take on the Jericho fall was it was completely obvious it was a crash pad.

That doesn't mean I wanted to see Jericho crash onto a hard surface. If it's a bump that needs an obvious pad to be done safely, don't do that bump.