|
Post by kingoftheindies on Jun 24, 2021 15:37:21 GMT -5
I just dont think WWE saw much in Tucker. He and Otis did have something going (and yes a lot of it was Otis but Tucker had his part to play and the act and it worked) it doesn't matter what ideas he had they just for whatever reason didn't see much in him.
That being said, when I see people showing up in Impact that were jobbers in WWE show up in Impact and are actually entertaining? That says maybe WWE should be more open to ideas wrestlers have.
And no I didn't see Tucker as a star but if he shows up in Impact, MLW, or NWA and gets momentum would I be surprised? Not at all
|
|
Legion
Fry's dog Seymour
Amy Pond's #1 fan
Hail Hydra!
Posts: 22,709
|
Post by Legion on Jun 24, 2021 15:41:51 GMT -5
Just to add to the whole "The system of creative is kind of a failure" thing I said... It does confuse me why they do this. Having the writers room is one thing, having the writers in-fight and pitch and fail to get segments and their storylines included is expected when you work in a writers room....but letting writers in to them room who have absolutely 0 product knowledge and, seemingly, little interest in gaining just makes me so confused. Though when we all know Vince comes in and just rips up the writing and re-does it all himself anyway, why does it even matter?
|
|
Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
Celestial Princess in Exile.
Posts: 46,072
Member is Online
|
Post by Allie Kitsune on Jun 24, 2021 15:43:52 GMT -5
Just to add to the whole "The system of creative is kind of a failure" thing I said... EDIT: Also, has to be said, she's doing a good job of wanting to get fired from the job she just got. I see they're still doing the "Don't want writers who actually know something about the business" thing... ...despite how that's worked out for them for the past who-knows-how-many years.
|
|
Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
Celestial Princess in Exile.
Posts: 46,072
Member is Online
|
Post by Allie Kitsune on Jun 24, 2021 15:45:08 GMT -5
I just dont think WWE saw much in Tucker. He and Otis did have something going (and yes a lot of it was Otis but Tucker had his part to play and the act and it worked) it doesn't matter what ideas he had they just for whatever reason didn't see much in him. That being said, when I see people showing up in Impact that were jobbers in WWE show up in Impact and are actually entertaining? That says maybe WWE should be more open to ideas wrestlers have. And no I didn't see Tucker as a star but if he shows up in Impact, MLW, or NWA and gets momentum would I be surprised? Not at all If Sawyer Fulton can settle into a consistent slot on Impact, surely Tucker can.
|
|
|
Post by Rolent Tex on Jun 24, 2021 15:45:53 GMT -5
To be honest, most of these wrestlers blame WWE for releasing them when in reality, they were lacking completely on the creative side. They were bringing nothing to the table. The company wants to make money. Tucker split from Otis and came out the next week looking like a local enhancement jobber with those plain black tights. Dust yourself off, think of an identity and build your brand. Then maybe they'll take you seriously. Or maybe...just a wild shot in the dark here...creative could do their jobs? Writers could do their jobs? Crazy old bastards could stop being wishy washy and stop pulling angles out of their ass without having an endgame in mind? Having Tucker stab Otis in the back and not only not having an actual feud plus doing Jack with the MITB and Otis just shows the “creative side” of WWE is a joke. I get tired of using this example but it still rings true...no matter how much he hated you...how much of a shitty gimmick you got...Vince f***ing Russo woukd have found a way to get you on TV. Hell that’s how we got the Farooq and Bradshaw pairing. If 10-20 writers or whatever the hell they employ these days can’t figure out something that a crappy crash TV writer from the 90’s could do on his own...then I’ve got some bad news for the product as a whole.
|
|
|
Post by eJm on Jun 24, 2021 15:46:13 GMT -5
Just to add to the whole "The system of creative is kind of a failure" thing I said... It does confuse me why they do this. Having the writers room is one thing, having the writers in-fight and pitch and fail to get segments and their storylines included is expected when you work in a writers room....but letting writers in to them room who have absolutely 0 product knowledge and, seemingly, little interest in gaining just makes me so confused. Though when we all know Vince comes in and just rips up the writing and re-does it all himself anyway, why does it even matter? Like, to put a hot take here...I have no problem with people who have no knowledge of the business. Hell, the person who wrote the Otis/Mandy storyline was an Emmy award winner who didn't know much about the business but knew enough about storytelling to tell a story. My issue is, like you said...why go out and admit you're not putting effort into a job and not willing to learn? If Lorne Michaels found out a writer did an interview saying they were half-assing the SNL writing process, whoever said that would pretty much never work in comedy again. Part of me is personal because it took me many years to get a full-time job with actual security that I'd pretty much have taken the opportunity to write for Peppa Pig if it came up. And, like, I wouldn't know how to properly write a kids TV show if an actual TV fell on me.
|
|
|
Post by Alice Syndrome on Jun 24, 2021 15:46:31 GMT -5
The thing he says about getting frazzled and worn down into accepting what he's told sounds...well, it sounds like it fits. It fits with what some other wrestlers have said, and his perception that it stopped him from asking questions may well be the point. Like, Vince's infamous fickleness with booking is likely very genuine, but it's hard not to wonder if the talent are given enough half-truths and evasions that "plans change" is also a way to keep the workers off balance. It's almost exactly what Mox said about letting that "Roman will have to answer to the man upstairs" line out
|
|
The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,278
|
Post by The Ichi on Jun 24, 2021 15:51:41 GMT -5
I'm going to be frank, for as long as Vince has been messing with people's careers, I am amazed how few times he's been punched by talent and employees. Probably because there's always someone who would have Vince's back for their own gain. Even Bret potentially would have had to fight the Haris Twins when he decked Vince.
|
|
|
Post by The Rick Jericho on Jun 24, 2021 16:11:51 GMT -5
Just to add to the whole "The system of creative is kind of a failure" thing I said... EDIT: Also, has to be said, she's doing a good job of wanting to get fired from the job she just got. I see they're still doing the "Don't want writers who actually know something about the business" thing... ...despite how that's worked out for them for the past who-knows-how-many years. Didn't it surface years ago, they didn't want to hire people who were marks for the business. Yes. If you like wrestling, get lost. Only WWE....
|
|
Legion
Fry's dog Seymour
Amy Pond's #1 fan
Hail Hydra!
Posts: 22,709
|
Post by Legion on Jun 24, 2021 16:13:10 GMT -5
It does confuse me why they do this. Having the writers room is one thing, having the writers in-fight and pitch and fail to get segments and their storylines included is expected when you work in a writers room....but letting writers in to them room who have absolutely 0 product knowledge and, seemingly, little interest in gaining just makes me so confused. Though when we all know Vince comes in and just rips up the writing and re-does it all himself anyway, why does it even matter? Like, to put a hot take here...I have no problem with people who have no knowledge of the business. Hell, the person who wrote the Otis/Mandy storyline was an Emmy award winner who didn't know much about the business but knew enough about storytelling to tell a story. My issue is, like you said...why go out and admit you're not putting effort into a job and not willing to learn? If Lorne Michaels found out a writer did an interview saying they were half-assing the SNL writing process, whoever said that would pretty much never work in comedy again. Part of me is personal because it took me many years to get a full-time job with actual security that I'd pretty much have taken the opportunity to write for Peppa Pig if it came up. And, like, I wouldn't know how to properly write a kids TV show if an actual TV fell on me. Yeah, for sure. You're right, having no knowledge but being willing to sit down and learn and say 'hey, I'm here to do my best, not just take a cheque and pitch shite every now and again' goes a long way. The lack of respect shows in the quality of the show.
|
|
|
Post by eJm on Jun 24, 2021 16:17:46 GMT -5
Like, to put a hot take here...I have no problem with people who have no knowledge of the business. Hell, the person who wrote the Otis/Mandy storyline was an Emmy award winner who didn't know much about the business but knew enough about storytelling to tell a story. My issue is, like you said...why go out and admit you're not putting effort into a job and not willing to learn? If Lorne Michaels found out a writer did an interview saying they were half-assing the SNL writing process, whoever said that would pretty much never work in comedy again. Part of me is personal because it took me many years to get a full-time job with actual security that I'd pretty much have taken the opportunity to write for Peppa Pig if it came up. And, like, I wouldn't know how to properly write a kids TV show if an actual TV fell on me. Yeah, for sure. You're right, having no knowledge but being willing to sit down and learn and say 'hey, I'm here to do my best, not just take a cheque and pitch shite every now and again' goes a long way. The lack of respect shows in the quality of the show. To add some context and to not go too far off-topic (too late), my job is about as far away from my journalism degree as humanly possible but I got hired, I'm guessing, because I'm willing to learn and have enough adaptable computer skills to at least get me through things to start with. And this is after years of rejections or internships going nowhere or crappy zero-hour jobs basically tossing me like trash etc. I also literally had to move countries to even get a shot at something like it. So seeing stuff like that just...it really rubs me the wrong way, especially when it involves a multi-billion dollar company.
|
|
|
Post by Mr Mario Mario on Jun 24, 2021 16:20:16 GMT -5
To be honest, most of these wrestlers blame WWE for releasing them when in reality, they were lacking completely on the creative side. They were bringing nothing to the table. The company wants to make money. Tucker split from Otis and came out the next week looking like a local enhancement jobber with those plain black tights. Dust yourself off, think of an identity and build your brand. Then maybe they'll take you seriously. Creatives job is to be creative. Going by this logic, next time a member of staff in my organisation comes to me with an IT issue, I should just tell them to fix it themselves Also, Zack Ryder did think of an identity and built a brand and look where it got him
|
|
|
Post by A Platypus Rave on Jun 24, 2021 16:21:54 GMT -5
To be honest, most of these wrestlers blame WWE for releasing them when in reality, they were lacking completely on the creative side. They were bringing nothing to the table. The company wants to make money. Tucker split from Otis and came out the next week looking like a local enhancement jobber with those plain black tights. Dust yourself off, think of an identity and build your brand. Then maybe they'll take you seriously. Wrestlers talk up and down about having plenty of ideas that never go anywhere and got totally ignored. And in this case, Tucker had an identity and a brand; creative cut him off from it without a ton of reason or any concrete story thread to go by and then just kinda did nothing with him afterward. WWE has a proven track record of not taking people seriously no matter what they bring forward. This is disconnected from what people say post-release. Also they're a business that employs dozens of writers whose job it is to have ideas and manage their roster, why aren't they 'bringing anything to the table'? Multiple people have said that the writers have had all sorts of cool ideas that they talk with the roster over doing. They get pitched to Vince who either shuts them down, agrees to do it but then changes his mind before it airs and shuts it down, shuts it down after setting it up, etc. The issue isn't the roster, the issue isn't the Writers or creative... the issue is Vince.
|
|
Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,021
|
Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Jun 24, 2021 16:22:59 GMT -5
Like, to put a hot take here...I have no problem with people who have no knowledge of the business. Hell, the person who wrote the Otis/Mandy storyline was an Emmy award winner who didn't know much about the business but knew enough about storytelling to tell a story. My issue is, like you said...why go out and admit you're not putting effort into a job and not willing to learn? If Lorne Michaels found out a writer did an interview saying they were half-assing the SNL writing process, whoever said that would pretty much never work in comedy again. Part of me is personal because it took me many years to get a full-time job with actual security that I'd pretty much have taken the opportunity to write for Peppa Pig if it came up. And, like, I wouldn't know how to properly write a kids TV show if an actual TV fell on me. Yeah, for sure. You're right, having no knowledge but being willing to sit down and learn and say 'hey, I'm here to do my best, not just take a cheque and pitch shite every now and again' goes a long way. The lack of respect shows in the quality of the show. I'd say it's actually a good thing to have SOME non fan perspectives, as long as they work hard, they can come in have a look and see things that someone neck deep in the business won't. Hell, you can put the fact Star Trek is still a thing on them hiring a non fan to direct Wrath of Khan because of having that kind of eye. But to put that in the ad and only look for those kinds of people barring a couple of exceptions, who even afterwards don't look up the basics of the product...
|
|
|
Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Jun 24, 2021 16:34:52 GMT -5
It does confuse me why they do this. Having the writers room is one thing, having the writers in-fight and pitch and fail to get segments and their storylines included is expected when you work in a writers room....but letting writers in to them room who have absolutely 0 product knowledge and, seemingly, little interest in gaining just makes me so confused. Though when we all know Vince comes in and just rips up the writing and re-does it all himself anyway, why does it even matter? Like, to put a hot take here...I have no problem with people who have no knowledge of the business. Hell, the person who wrote the Otis/Mandy storyline was an Emmy award winner who didn't know much about the business but knew enough about storytelling to tell a story. My issue is, like you said...why go out and admit you're not putting effort into a job and not willing to learn? If Lorne Michaels found out a writer did an interview saying they were half-assing the SNL writing process, whoever said that would pretty much never work in comedy again. Part of me is personal because it took me many years to get a full-time job with actual security that I'd pretty much have taken the opportunity to write for Peppa Pig if it came up. And, like, I wouldn't know how to properly write a kids TV show if an actual TV fell on me. I've done a lot of freelance writing gigs before for stuff I don't know or don't care about. That's a big part of writing in virtually any field. But you can come into it trying your best and applying what you know; research goes a long way but so does trying and giving a shit. In TV, almost nobody's pet projects ever go anywhere, they're going to be taking spots in writing rooms on what opens up, and WWE has a stronger security than a lot of shows because it's so ingrained and so definitely going to still be around that your job won't go up in smoke like a new prime time sitcom often does. Hell, you bring up Peppa Pig and that's sincerely a great example. There's people who write for kids series who really passionately care for one reason or another, but there's also a lot of them for whom it's work. They know they can do it, they need a writing job to pay the rent, so sure, let's write Peppa Pig. But you still need to kind of care about doing a good job. And if your company openly fosters an environment where you don't care and where you're discouraged from knowing about it or trying to care, then you're going to get what you give.
|
|
fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
FAN Idol All-Star: FAN Idol Season X and *Gavel* 2x Judges' Throwdown winner
Tribe has spoken for 2024 Mets
Posts: 38,913
|
Post by fw91 on Jun 24, 2021 16:43:55 GMT -5
To be honest, most of these wrestlers blame WWE for releasing them when in reality, they were lacking completely on the creative side. They were bringing nothing to the table. The company wants to make money. Tucker split from Otis and came out the next week looking like a local enhancement jobber with those plain black tights. Dust yourself off, think of an identity and build your brand. Then maybe they'll take you seriously. Or maybe...just a wild shot in the dark here...creative could do their jobs? Writers could do their jobs? Crazy old bastards could stop being wishy washy and stop pulling angles out of their ass without having an endgame in mind? Having Tucker stab Otis in the back and not only not having an actual feud plus doing Jack with the MITB and Otis just shows the “creative side” of WWE is a joke. I get tired of using this example but it still rings true...no matter how much he hated you...how much of a shitty gimmick you got...Vince f***ing Russo woukd have found a way to get you on TV. Hell that’s how we got the Farooq and Bradshaw pairing. If 10-20 writers or whatever the hell they employ these days can’t figure out something that a crappy crash TV writer from the 90’s could do on his own...then I’ve got some bad news for the product as a whole. imo, both of you aren't wrong. Both sides need to do more.
|
|
|
Post by kingoftheindies on Jun 24, 2021 17:01:19 GMT -5
Wrestlers talk up and down about having plenty of ideas that never go anywhere and got totally ignored. And in this case, Tucker had an identity and a brand; creative cut him off from it without a ton of reason or any concrete story thread to go by and then just kinda did nothing with him afterward. WWE has a proven track record of not taking people seriously no matter what they bring forward. This is disconnected from what people say post-release. Also they're a business that employs dozens of writers whose job it is to have ideas and manage their roster, why aren't they 'bringing anything to the table'? Multiple people have said that the writers have had all sorts of cool ideas that they talk with the roster over doing. They get pitched to Vince who either shuts them down, agrees to do it but then changes his mind before it airs and shuts it down, shuts it down after setting it up, etc. The issue isn't the roster, the issue isn't the Writers or creative... the issue is Vince. For a lot of guys yeah. I do know a few wrestlers like Eric Young, the Good Brothers, Brian Myers, and a few others have said they would pitch ideas to Vince and Hunter that they liked... and then writers would get into Vince's ear saying how dumb something was and Vince would change his mind. So yeah the fault ultimately falls on Vince (as Mox and Jericho said if Vince finds put you have comedic timing he thinks you can make his slapstick comedy work no matter what) bur I think there is more of a two way street for blame as well.
|
|
Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 234,843
|
Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jun 24, 2021 17:02:37 GMT -5
Kind of an aside but stuff like this makes Aleister Black look even more like a dingus when he was trying to bash dirtsheets by simply saying "Plans Change" for certain wrestlers or storylines.
When your own fellow employees are going on record in saying shit changes with their storylines and direction by the half hour... plans in fact do change dude, and you can't just dog a dirtsheet and say it doesn't.
|
|
|
Post by Rolent Tex on Jun 24, 2021 17:05:27 GMT -5
Or maybe...just a wild shot in the dark here...creative could do their jobs? Writers could do their jobs? Crazy old bastards could stop being wishy washy and stop pulling angles out of their ass without having an endgame in mind? Having Tucker stab Otis in the back and not only not having an actual feud plus doing Jack with the MITB and Otis just shows the “creative side” of WWE is a joke. I get tired of using this example but it still rings true...no matter how much he hated you...how much of a shitty gimmick you got...Vince f***ing Russo woukd have found a way to get you on TV. Hell that’s how we got the Farooq and Bradshaw pairing. If 10-20 writers or whatever the hell they employ these days can’t figure out something that a crappy crash TV writer from the 90’s could do on his own...then I’ve got some bad news for the product as a whole. imo, both of you aren't wrong. Both sides need to do more. Problem is I think the talent wants to do more but WWE isn’t that place anymore. Don’t dare get over on your own. Don’t you dare mess with their plans. Hell, the fans had to force their hand on Daniel Bryan or they’d have very loudly shit on Batista vs Orton at Mania. Matt Hardy is a man that’s constantly reinvented himself no matter where he went. Vince doesn’t want that jazz...he wants his nostalgia acts and safe bets. Plus there’s the eternal example of Zack Ryder. Damn little goofball got over on the Internet. We’ll show him.
|
|
|
Post by kingoftheindies on Jun 24, 2021 17:27:44 GMT -5
imo, both of you aren't wrong. Both sides need to do more. Problem is I think the talent wants to do more but WWE isn’t that place anymore. Don’t dare get over on your own. Don’t you dare mess with their plans. Hell, the fans had to force their hand on Daniel Bryan or they’d have very loudly shit on Batista vs Orton at Mania. Matt Hardy is a man that’s constantly reinvented himself no matter where he went. Vince doesn’t want that jazz...he wants his nostalgia acts and safe bets. Plus there’s the eternal example of Zack Ryder. Damn little goofball got over on the Internet. We’ll show him. Do give Ryder/Cardona credit he still knows how to market himself well and is doing insanely well with getting bookings and marketing opportunities. It is a slippery slope. There are absolutely guys and girls that probably have a million ideas that would work. But I think there are also people who do need to be led by Vince on what to do. I think the same can be said for writers as well. Now again Vince is the one that has the power to say yes or no, but I think the creative issues stem deeper than just Vince... and just see back when the Brand Split happened what a dip in quality Smackdown had when they changed from Ryan Ward to Road Dogg
|
|