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Post by eJm on Jul 28, 2021 10:41:48 GMT -5
Nah, you’re doing fine with that, dude.
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Post by sunnytaker on Jul 28, 2021 10:45:29 GMT -5
i would like to see a few more draws though. they had a couple right off the bat with cody/darby and pac/mox but can't think of any recent ones. they do mention when matches get over the 10 minute mark but they never seem to get close to the time limit much anymore. i vaguely recall something a few months back where one match got to the two minute warning. oh wait i guess the jericho/jungle boy 10 minute challenge would count though technically that counted as a win for jungle boy because he lasted the entire ten minutes so dunno if that counts in the end.
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Kalmia
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Post by Kalmia on Jul 28, 2021 11:00:11 GMT -5
I think you can use the odd count out or DQ, but they should add to the story instead of being a get-out clause for having anyone lose. Two wrestlers that have such bad blood between them they can't stay away from whacking each other with weapons and that leads to a no-DQ style match with a definitive winner? Sure. You can do that once every six months.
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markymark
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Post by markymark on Jul 28, 2021 11:09:48 GMT -5
i would like to see a few more draws though. they had a couple right off the bat with cody/darby and pac/mox but can't think of any recent ones. they do mention when matches get over the 10 minute mark but they never seem to get close to the time limit much anymore. i vaguely recall something a few months back where one match got to the two minute warning. oh wait i guess the jericho/jungle boy 10 minute challenge would count though technically that counted as a win for jungle boy because he lasted the entire ten minutes so dunno if that counts in the end. I also would like to see more draws but dont abuse it like Stardom has done it for example.
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Jul 28, 2021 11:14:07 GMT -5
The one time they did use a DQ was a smart one. It was during PAC & Omega's Iron Man match where PAC got himself purposefully DQ'd to weaken Kenny.
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Post by EP 54 is banned from Collision on Jul 28, 2021 11:46:22 GMT -5
Tennis Guy getting some love from TK. He'll love that.
I've said it before, I have no problem with having very few count-outs and DQs, but it's on the talent to not take the piss by brawling outside for ten minutes or doing blatantly illegal things in front of the ref.
Turns out the wrestlers aren't very good at that.
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Post by toodarkmark on Jul 28, 2021 12:53:57 GMT -5
I'm in the "more draws" crowd. I'm find with a 20 minute time limit match to go to the next show. I think now that TK realizes this, we may see a few DQs and countouts. I don't mind one a month or something.
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Post by Cyno on Jul 28, 2021 13:00:52 GMT -5
Countouts can be used smartly in match finishes, and I wouldn't mind seeing them used more often. Even the threat of count-out can add to a tension of a match.
But after being used so much in WCW and WWE, I'm really happy about the lack of DQ finishes. They're so anticlimactic and too much of a booking crutch.
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Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on Jul 28, 2021 13:05:50 GMT -5
I’m fine with having conclusive finishes, but a DQ or count out can lead to good storytelling. Say Omega and Page face off in a match before All Out and Kenny intentionally gets himself counted out, including the Elite holding Page’s ankles or distracting him so he can’t run and bring Kenny back in the ring. It makes the crowd hate Kenny and the Elite, makes Page more sympathetic, and can lead to Hangman wanting the Kenny match at All Out to be No DQ/Falls Count Anywhere so he can make sure Kenny’s got nowhere to run and neutralize the Elite by having Dark Order be his legal back up.
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Post by Bo Rida on Jul 28, 2021 13:32:23 GMT -5
Tennis Guy getting some love from TK. He'll love that. I've said it before, I have no problem with having very few count-outs and DQs, but it's on the talent to not take the piss by brawling outside for ten minutes or doing blatantly illegal things in front of the ref. Turns out the wrestlers aren't very good at that. Yeah he's completely right in his approach but you need to do in them occasionally so the threat is there. The amount of times people get away with cheating in front of the ref is ridiculous. It often feels like there are no rules. I've always thought winning by countout is underutilized everywhere. Double countouts are nearly always dumb though. Time limit draws should be very occasional. Mostly in TNT title matches but they don't really suit Miro so that's out for now.
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Post by smokinvokoun86 on Jul 28, 2021 14:02:31 GMT -5
I kinda applaud TK for this style of booking. WWE has over used DQs and Countouts, especially at big shows that people were sick of them. And now it’s the exact opposite and it’s now really funny to see people in the Dynamite threads sometimes say, “Man, that should have been a DQ right there.” I think I wouldn’t mind one now and again, I think AEW fans are fine with one when it makes sense.
But in general, the less DQs and Countouts, the better.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2021 14:19:13 GMT -5
Definitely in the fine with more draws camp as well. I think they stopped doing them all that much because the Mox/Pac one wasn’t taken all that well (I may be wrong on that). Also seemed we were meant to get one with OC/PAC but Orange got knocked out. Regardless the less DQs the better in my view
Thinking about it I wonder what World Title match will be the first to go the full 60 min draw. That will be something.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jul 28, 2021 14:31:37 GMT -5
Tennis Guy getting some love from TK. He'll love that. I've said it before, I have no problem with having very few count-outs and DQs, but it's on the talent to not take the piss by brawling outside for ten minutes or doing blatantly illegal things in front of the ref. Turns out the wrestlers aren't very good at that. it also limits some storytelling and psychology in the ring FTR's entire schtick was old school bending the rules and taking advantage of things like the tag rope and whatever... if like seemingly nothing gets enforced enough to get a DQ that style of storytelling doesn't really work.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2021 14:40:41 GMT -5
DQs and Count outs are okay...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2021 14:42:35 GMT -5
I've never had a problem with using DQ's/Countouts/Draws to your advantage as a booker. I've only ever had a problem when it's a crutch you lean on WAY too much. Even then, I don't hate that kind of finish as much as I hate the "referee is distracted so 5 guys are going to jump the babyface and the referee is not going to notice this at all, because clearly they're deaf and have no peripheral vision" finish. Basically, as long as you don't hit the well too often, go for it.
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Jul 28, 2021 14:45:04 GMT -5
I wouldn't mind a few more DQs because the lack of them is starting to make the refs look seriously dumb. Not enough is better than too many, though.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jul 28, 2021 14:45:09 GMT -5
I've never had a problem with using DQ's/Countouts/Draws to your advantage as a booker. I've only ever had a problem when it's a crutch you lean on WAY too much. Even then, I don't hate that kind of finish as much as I hate the "referee is distracted so 5 guys are going to jump the babyface and the referee is not going to notice this at all, because clearly they're deaf and have no peripheral vision" finish. Basically, as long as you don't hit the well too often, go for it. Yeah, don't have it be your only finish... and don't have it be like the finish to a big hyped matchup especially at the PPV or Supershow or whatever...
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.
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Post by . on Jul 28, 2021 15:00:19 GMT -5
Someone with more knowledge can check me on this; Wasn't there a WCW show (Nitro?) that had all the matches end in DQ or Countouts?
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Post by eJm on Jul 28, 2021 15:11:40 GMT -5
Someone with more knowledge can check me on this; Wasn't there a WCW show (Nitro?) that had all the matches end in DQ or Countouts? I’m pretty sure there is one in 2000 that was just that. Also one funnily enough that had a tonne of clean finishes somehow.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Jul 28, 2021 15:19:29 GMT -5
To me, it feels like WWE think they spam the dirty/disputed finish as much as they do in the name of “protection”, either to protect talents from losing or protecting the matchup for later down the line where they might have a definitive winner (or start the process over again, flip of a coin). People hate that because nobody gets over and it’s a waste of time. But in turn that creates a problem whenever they actually DO have clean finishes, and that is that the conversation then becomes “Well, they didn’t bother protecting this guy with a dirty finish so why should I give a f*** about them?”. Nobody gets over because the chat then becomes about someone being “buried”.
AEW just seems to go “OK, this person is losing clean, deal with it”, and for the vast majority of people, they DO deal with it, likely because their careers aren’t living or dying from match to match.
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