|
Post by Bang Bang Bart on Jul 28, 2021 23:34:28 GMT -5
My hot take is that the vitriol and venom that this produced is a sign of how great AEW is right now. People really, really care about Hangman and want to see him succeed. That’s a hard magic to capture in a scripted sport in 2021. If AEW sticks the landing, this will be huge for the company. If they stick the landing, then this match will largely be a non-issue.
|
|
Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 47,825
|
Post by Dub H on Jul 28, 2021 23:35:56 GMT -5
My hot take is that the vitriol and venom that this produced is a sign of how great AEW is right now. People really, really care about Hangman and want to see him succeed. That’s a hard magic to capture in a scripted sport in 2021. If AEW sticks the landing, this will be huge for the company. If they stick the landing, then this match will largely be a non-issue. At same time ,Hangman will kick out of the OWA and people will complain its too much HE WILL KICK OUT DAMNIT,I BELIEVE!
|
|
|
Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on Jul 28, 2021 23:39:54 GMT -5
If they stick the landing, then this match will largely be a non-issue. At same time ,Hangman will kick out of the OWA and people will complain its too much HE WILL KICK OUT DAMNIT,I BELIEVE! After seeing how hot Page has been with crowds back, I'd totally be cool with Page winning without a full OWA kickout. If they save it for someone else do it as a way to either write Kenny off for a rest and/or the sparkpoint for a face turn then they'd have two megastars and not just 1 with a basic story.
|
|
|
Post by Vice honcho room temperature on Jul 28, 2021 23:41:09 GMT -5
Honestly... Kinda killed my interest in watching the rest of the show. Went on to the poparena Looney tunea video after it
|
|
Chiral
Salacious Crumb
Posts: 73,502
|
Post by Chiral on Jul 28, 2021 23:41:33 GMT -5
Watching the entrance again, this line stands out to me
"And when they get knocked in the dirt, bloodied and trampled, a cowboy dusts themselves off and gets back up."
They've been very clear like specifically in the writing about what's going on and what they're going for.
|
|
Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 47,825
|
Post by Dub H on Jul 28, 2021 23:42:15 GMT -5
At same time ,Hangman will kick out of the OWA and people will complain its too much HE WILL KICK OUT DAMNIT,I BELIEVE! After seeing how hot Page has been with crowds back, I'd totally be cool with Page winning without a full OWA kickout. If they save it for someone else do it as a way to either write Kenny off for a rest and/or the sparkpoint for a face turn then they'd have two megastars and not just 1 with a basic story. Thats a fair point too. I just think it would be the cherry on top of a 2-years long journey and relation.
|
|
Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 234,843
|
Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jul 28, 2021 23:42:44 GMT -5
AEW does deserve the benefit of the doubt long term booking wise, but overall this is the first big booking decision they’ve done that deflated me and took me out of the show for a while. And it seemed to do that to the crowd too. I think the placement of a heat angle like this should be reconsidered for the future too. It was such a hot fun open that came crashing down. That’s where I’m at. I don’t think anything was ruined moving forward for the storyline but the ending was completely deflating and took me and the crowd out of the show. AEW has typically built to moments like this that are predictable and satisfying and then delivered in a big way. This seemed like a departure from their storytelling norm. As Dork also said though there is a magic to that. There's an emotional attachment there AEW can now use and build Hangman up even stronger. Same with Dark Order. This was their failure and now they have to get back up. It was deflating and it was a deviation from their norm... then again many people believe AEW can be a bit too predictable sometimes. A lot of people didn't see this coming... and they can make it special if they play their cards right.
|
|
|
Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on Jul 28, 2021 23:48:23 GMT -5
That’s where I’m at. I don’t think anything was ruined moving forward for the storyline but the ending was completely deflating and took me and the crowd out of the show. AEW has typically built to moments like this that are predictable and satisfying and then delivered in a big way. This seemed like a departure from their storytelling norm. As Dork also said though there is a magic to that. There's an emotional attachment there AEW can now use and build Hangman up even stronger. Same with Dark Order. This was their failure and now they have to get back up. It was deflating and it was a deviation from their norm... then again many people believe AEW can be a bit too predictable sometimes. A lot of people didn't see this coming... and they can make it special if they play their cards right. And it hit so hard because AEW has made it a trope to have the result of matches with make-or-break stipulations obvious, which is why it seemed like DO winning was a foregone conclusion. One of TK's strengths as a booker so far has been using the metanarrative as a device and tool, and not simply a way to be "spontaneous" or fall into the Crash TV that's dominated mainstream US wrestling for 20 years.
|
|
Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 47,825
|
Post by Dub H on Jul 28, 2021 23:52:03 GMT -5
As Dork also said though there is a magic to that. There's an emotional attachment there AEW can now use and build Hangman up even stronger. Same with Dark Order. This was their failure and now they have to get back up. It was deflating and it was a deviation from their norm... then again many people believe AEW can be a bit too predictable sometimes. A lot of people didn't see this coming... and they can make it special if they play their cards right. And it hit so hard because AEW has made it a trope to have the result of matches with make-or-break stipulations obvious, which is why it seemed like DO winning was a foregone conclusion. One of TK's strengths as a booker so far has been using the metanarrative as a device and tool, and not simply a way to be "spontaneous" or fall into the Crash TV that's dominated mainstream US wrestling for 20 years. tbf the stipulation was that he lost his number one contender shot. Not "never challenge again". For example if he wins the casino battle royale at all out...the same way he won the original contendership,that would be kinda cool.
|
|
|
Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on Jul 28, 2021 23:53:47 GMT -5
And it hit so hard because AEW has made it a trope to have the result of matches with make-or-break stipulations obvious, which is why it seemed like DO winning was a foregone conclusion. One of TK's strengths as a booker so far has been using the metanarrative as a device and tool, and not simply a way to be "spontaneous" or fall into the Crash TV that's dominated mainstream US wrestling for 20 years. tbf the stipulation was that he lost his number one contender shot. Not "never challenge again". For example if he wins the casino battle royale at all out...the same way he won the original contendership,that would be kinda cool. As of tonight, the stipulation was that Page gets booted from the ranking system and goes to the back of the line. He's got 9 main TV shows to get back up there.
|
|
Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 234,843
|
Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jul 28, 2021 23:54:35 GMT -5
And it hit so hard because AEW has made it a trope to have the result of matches with make-or-break stipulations obvious, which is why it seemed like DO winning was a foregone conclusion. One of TK's strengths as a booker so far has been using the metanarrative as a device and tool, and not simply a way to be "spontaneous" or fall into the Crash TV that's dominated mainstream US wrestling for 20 years. tbf the stipulation was that he lost his number one contender shot. Not "never challenge again". For example if he wins the casino battle royale at all out...the same way he won the original contendership,that would be kinda cool. Yeah I think people thought this would be a Cody Rhodes thing No he just loses his number one ranking and right to challenge for the belt. He has to work his way up the rankings again. That's the journey here. If he won the Battle Royale that'd be poetic but I dont think they're gonna save it for the night. Unless they advertise whoever wins the Battle Royale challenges Kenny THAT NIGHT. Which'd make it very obvious
|
|
khali
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,569
Member is Online
|
Post by khali on Jul 28, 2021 23:55:43 GMT -5
And it hit so hard because AEW has made it a trope to have the result of matches with make-or-break stipulations obvious, which is why it seemed like DO winning was a foregone conclusion. One of TK's strengths as a booker so far has been using the metanarrative as a device and tool, and not simply a way to be "spontaneous" or fall into the Crash TV that's dominated mainstream US wrestling for 20 years. tbf the stipulation was that he lost his number one contender shot. Not "never challenge again". For example if he wins the casino battle royale at all out...the same way he won the original contendership,that would be kinda cool. I feel like not having him in the title match at All Out would be a big mistake. It’s the clear hot match everyone wants, and you’d just be dragging this out with the risk of him cooling off.
|
|
|
Post by Bang Bang Bart on Jul 28, 2021 23:56:57 GMT -5
tbf the stipulation was that he lost his number one contender shot. Not "never challenge again". For example if he wins the casino battle royale at all out...the same way he won the original contendership,that would be kinda cool. I feel like not having him the title match at All Out would be a big mistake. It’s the clear hot match everyone wants, and you’d just be dragging this out with the risk of him cooling off. I think whatever happens that leads to the All Out match happens on the Rampage premiere episode.
|
|
Derk!
Hank Scorpio
Yeah, "looks like."
Posts: 5,066
Member is Online
|
Post by Derk! on Jul 29, 2021 0:01:14 GMT -5
Disappointed in the result, but I do have faith that Hangman will be walking out of All Out as the new champ.
Also glad to know that Hangman is officially a Dark Order member.
|
|
EZ: Brainy Bae
King Koopa
I be like SHEESH
Posts: 12,346
Member is Online
|
Post by EZ: Brainy Bae on Jul 29, 2021 0:39:58 GMT -5
Most of us have been watching and dissecting wrestling for years if not decades; let’s spare the “If you think this was bad you don’t know narratives/wrestling/“ etc talk
Been thinking of the best way to word my problems with it;
1) This match was the most organic way for the title match to be cemented; it already had build and buy-in from the audience. Now you not only have to go back on the stipulation by creating another path for Page but spend more build (and time) on that - now predictable, because he has to get it - second path rather than building the match between them instead. It’s disingenuous to refer to this tag match as The Big Win that would’ve Spoiled the Crowd; there needs to be feel-good moments in any build and this would’ve been a tremendous place for one before The Elite and co. spend the next month trying to break them down and stack the deck as much as possible.
2) ) It’s not just about Page/main-event talent. The Dark Order are an instrumental part of the story and they got very little shine in one of the bigger matches they have had. Not only that but the result, predictably, killed the crowd and made it unfair for the following segments. If you couldn’t have it main due to Jericho/Gage’s antics, fine, but they’re the one who booked both matches for this show and created the dilemma.
3) My biggest annoyance; if you’re going to go with this result then commit to it and really drive the knife in. Let it breathe and hurt. Page should have gotten up after losing and looked around shellshocked he lost his title shot while the audience tries to hype him (and themselves) back up before he left to the back. Instead they ran to the next segment and hardly mentioned anything about what we just saw. It was like they knew how unpopular the result would be and thought it best to not acknowledge it and hope the rest of the show would proceed blissfully. I had to step out at certain points for home stuff, so if I missed it let me know, but I was astonished to not see at least a backstage follow-up later where Page and DO are sulking. Yes, they could address this next week, but it still made this particular step awkward and unfulfilling
|
|
|
Post by The Prince That Was Promised on Jul 29, 2021 1:00:16 GMT -5
It was the right choice. In no world should a Dark Order filled team be beating the Elite. The Dark Order are not on the Young Bucks level. They're not on Omega's level either. I mean the Young Bucks beat Moxley and Kingston pretty much clean at DONIII and you people want them pinning the Bucks? You want Kenny Omega taking a pin on TV as champion? That's WWE booking. They booked tonight's match perfectly.
Eliminating the Good Brothers was good enough for them. But there's plenty of story to tell still. You get to All Out by having Hangman put his career on the line for the title match. If Hangman vs Omega is not the plan then I'm sure they have something big planned. Omega vs Okada or Omega vs Jay White are possibilities. If they book Punk vs Darby for the show it'll be fine if they hold off on Hangman's coronation.
|
|
|
Post by Tenshigure on Jul 29, 2021 1:08:51 GMT -5
What exactly is your definition of a chickenshit heel? Omega laughed at Orange Cassidy and said he wasn't in his league. Omega is a super confident, I can beat anyone, "I'm the best" heel. I think when you say he's a "chickenshit" heel, you haven't really been watching him? He's been oozing confidence with Callis, and only becomes chickenshit if the faces are beating him around. Simple enough: he's a chickenshit heel because he doesn't want a fair fight against Hangman. He's put roadblocks in the way of what is otherwise a rightful contendership to the belt, and each time he comes close to possibly losing he has shenanigans to rely on and retain his titles. That comes in the form of Callis, the Super Elite, hitting people with his titles, "paying off" the ref in Knox, the list goes on and on. He plays cocky and confident because he knows he has the upper hand and is living in the head of Page. The inevitable moment he loses his advantages, he panics. Flair was just as good in the ring as his opponents, didn't stop him from doing this same deal. Same in more recent times with MJF in putting these people between him and a one on one confrontation, whether it be Cody or Jericho. You mean the same segment where the Super Elite were standing behind him? The same one where he was getting into the head of Page because he knows he isn't confident to take him on 1v1? Yes, I did. The moment Page is confident in himself and can take on Omega solo is the time the trigger will (and must) be pulled. The brief glimpses in the 3v1 shows the spark is there. It caused Kenny to panic and cheat a win rather than fight honorably. It's just going to take a little push to get Hangman over the top to topple the champ.
|
|
Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 234,843
|
Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jul 29, 2021 1:14:16 GMT -5
Most of us have been watching and dissecting wrestling for years if not decades; let’s spare the “If you think this was bad you don’t know narratives/wrestling/“ etc talk Been thinking of the best way to word my problems with it; 1) This match was the most organic way for the title match to be cemented; it already had build and buy-in from the audience. Now you not only have to go back on the stipulation by creating another path for Page but spend more build (and time) on that - now predictable, because he has to get it - second path rather than building the match between them instead. It’s disingenuous to refer to this tag match as The Big Win that would’ve Spoiled the Crowd; there needs to be feel-good moments in any build and this would’ve been a tremendous place for one before The Elite and co. spend the next month trying to break them down and stack the deck as much as possible. 2) ) It’s not just about Page/main-event talent. The Dark Order are an instrumental part of the story and they got very little shine in one of the bigger matches they have had. Not only that but the result, predictably, killed the crowd and made it unfair for the following segments. If you couldn’t have it main due to Jericho/Gage’s antics, fine, but they’re the one who booked both matches for this show and created the dilemma. 3) My biggest annoyance; if you’re going to go with this result then commit to it and really drive the knife in. Let it breathe and hurt. Page should have gotten up after losing and looked around shellshocked he lost his title shot while the audience tries to hype him (and themselves) back up before he left to the back. Instead they ran to the next segment and hardly mentioned anything about what we just saw. It was like they knew how unpopular the result would be and thought it best to not acknowledge it and hope the rest of the show would proceed blissfully. I had to step out at certain points for home stuff, so if I missed it let me know, but I was astonished to not see at least a backstage follow-up later where Page and DO are sulking. Yes, they could address this next week, but it still made this particular step awkward and unfulfilling The biggest answer to 1 and 2 are they have five weeks and Dynamite AND Rampage to build Hangman and Dark Order back up and give them plenty of satisfying moments. While I get what this moment would have meant I find it more interesting they didn't win because the end result remains the same... the road becomes less obvious. If they do it right this will be inconsequential to the grand scheme of the feud. On 3 I can get how that could be frustrating. But I think they should let it simmer and let them address it next week... because Homecoming should be where they begin to turn the negatives into a positive. I would have loved the shellshocked moment like you mentioned but it should be fine heading into the next weeks. It was a perfect scenario... almost too perfect. And it was for Hangman and Dark Order as Elite cheated and schemed to a win... not instead of the potential win and break down for a month... we perhaps see the next month turn into The Elites slow crumbling downfall... and that's ok with me if that's the way we go. And no one is saying the people who had issues can't have those issues or complaints. At least I'm not personally trying to. I see it from your perspective. I just have faith they'll still pay this off in a grand way.
|
|
lucas_lee
Hank Scorpio
Heel turn is finished, now stripping away my personality
Posts: 6,690
|
Post by lucas_lee on Jul 29, 2021 1:16:49 GMT -5
I'm thinking theyre gonna have Christian take on Omega for All Out for the name value and to get that match out of the way before Hangman straps up. Theyve been building Christian vs Omega slowly
|
|
lucas_lee
Hank Scorpio
Heel turn is finished, now stripping away my personality
Posts: 6,690
|
Post by lucas_lee on Jul 29, 2021 1:20:11 GMT -5
The only problem I had with the match was Omega putting his hands on the ref and not getting DQ'd was it a no dq match?
|
|