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Post by Breakfast Banjo on Sept 22, 2022 22:27:33 GMT -5
Next up is the Kid Icarus movie. Make it live action, I want to see what sort of horror a special effects maker could unleash with their version of Eggplant Wizard.
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The Legend of Groose
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Voted for Mason Ryan
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Post by The Legend of Groose on Sept 23, 2022 1:12:19 GMT -5
Next up is the Kid Icarus movie. Make it live action, I want to see what sort of horror a special effects maker could unleash with their version of Eggplant Wizard. Played by Danny DeVito. |
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Post by tntchamp on Sept 23, 2022 17:23:09 GMT -5
I know this sounds strange to say, but of all the Nintendo video game franchises, Mario has always felt like the most uninteresting in regards to the source material. What I mean by that is the story is just plain silly, . Moreso than every other damsel in distress video game that also came about around the same time. Most of the time, they haven't really expanded on it, just redoing the same tactic of "Bowser kidnapping the Princess..BUT THIS TIME he _____". I am guessing that the story is going to rely heavily on the audience being familiar with the lore and not so much about what we know about Mario and friends. I think it'll probably be similar to how The Lego Movie felt. I don't doubt the movie will make tons and tons of money...but I think I would have preferred anything else out of Nintendo as far as a video game movie goes; Legend of Zelda, Metroid, Kid Icarus, Animal Crossing, Punch Out, Pilotwings, Star Tropics...heck I think a Dr. Mario movie would be far more interesting. That is a good point. I love Mario games as much as the next guy but it doesn't feel like something that would make for the most fascinating movie or at the least might be pretty basic. I say this all the while still be cautiously excited for the movie. I do feel though Zelda has a lot more potential as a movie. |
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chrom
Backup Wench
Master of the rare undecuple post
Posts: 81,666
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Post by chrom on Sept 23, 2022 17:28:05 GMT -5
I know this sounds strange to say, but of all the Nintendo video game franchises, Mario has always felt like the most uninteresting in regards to the source material. What I mean by that is the story is just plain silly, . Moreso than every other damsel in distress video game that also came about around the same time. Most of the time, they haven't really expanded on it, just redoing the same tactic of "Bowser kidnapping the Princess..BUT THIS TIME he _____". I am guessing that the story is going to rely heavily on the audience being familiar with the lore and not so much about what we know about Mario and friends. I think it'll probably be similar to how The Lego Movie felt. I don't doubt the movie will make tons and tons of money...but I think I would have preferred anything else out of Nintendo as far as a video game movie goes; Legend of Zelda, Metroid, Kid Icarus, Animal Crossing, Punch Out, Pilotwings, Star Tropics...heck I think a Dr. Mario movie would be far more interesting. That is a good point. I love Mario games as much as the next guy but it doesn't feel like something that would make for the most fascinating movie or at the least might be pretty basic. I say this all the while still be cautiously excited for the movie. I do feel though Zelda has a lot more potential as a movie. That or Metroid probably has the best shot. |
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Post by tntchamp on Sept 23, 2022 17:32:45 GMT -5
That is a good point. I love Mario games as much as the next guy but it doesn't feel like something that would make for the most fascinating movie or at the least might be pretty basic. I say this all the while still be cautiously excited for the movie. I do feel though Zelda has a lot more potential as a movie. That or Metroid probably has the best shot. Yeah Metroid could really be big if done right. Still need to actually play a Metroid game though. |
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chrom
Backup Wench
Master of the rare undecuple post
Posts: 81,666
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Post by chrom on Sept 23, 2022 18:49:21 GMT -5
I imagine a beloved and iconic purple clad character will appear who they possibly can't do the movie without, who the fans for years have been clamoring for and at long last gets the opportunity to shine.
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Post by HMARK Center on Sept 25, 2022 12:49:57 GMT -5
I know this sounds strange to say, but of all the Nintendo video game franchises, Mario has always felt like the most uninteresting in regards to the source material. What I mean by that is the story is just plain silly, . Moreso than every other damsel in distress video game that also came about around the same time. Most of the time, they haven't really expanded on it, just redoing the same tactic of "Bowser kidnapping the Princess..BUT THIS TIME he _____". I am guessing that the story is going to rely heavily on the audience being familiar with the lore and not so much about what we know about Mario and friends. I think it'll probably be similar to how The Lego Movie felt. I don't doubt the movie will make tons and tons of money...but I think I would have preferred anything else out of Nintendo as far as a video game movie goes; Legend of Zelda, Metroid, Kid Icarus, Animal Crossing, Punch Out, Pilotwings, Star Tropics...heck I think a Dr. Mario movie would be far more interesting. That is a good point. I love Mario games as much as the next guy but it doesn't feel like something that would make for the most fascinating movie or at the least might be pretty basic. I say this all the while still be cautiously excited for the movie. I do feel though Zelda has a lot more potential as a movie. The thing with most Nintendo properties, though it's especially pronounced with Mario as a series and with Link as a protagonist, is that they often emphasize the characters being blank slates that the players can project themselves onto. This has absolutely helped the longevity of those series; think about how many old school franchises got to the 3D era in the late 90s/early 2000s and suddenly started giving their characters voices and trying to build lore for them, and how in many cases it just didn't really work, in part because those older series kind of thrived on players being able to project all kinds of ideas and conceptions onto them given that the rudimentary graphics and lack of voiceovers and whatnot left tons of room for interpretation. The drawback is that if you then want to adapt that franchise for a medium like film or TV, you don't have as much to work with. Like, I've always dreamed of a great Zelda film, either live action Lord of the Rings style or animated Studio Ghibli style, but how do you work around the fact that Link intentionally has no real defined character, voice (metaphorical OR literal), or personality? Mario and Luigi will give you the bing-bing-WAHOOs, but even in the Mario RPG/Paper Mario series, where they tend to have more defined characters, Mario remains mute and his character remains undefined. Again, great for games, not always great for film/TV. That said, it's why I've always been on the mind that any Mario film/TV adaptation should keep the "two plumbers from Brooklyn" backstory; it allows you to use Mario and Luigi as audience stand-ins when they experience all the weirdness of the Mushroom Kingdom and surrounding environments, and lets them feel more relatable as a result. If the movie starts and it's just "these two guys in plumber outfits just happen to live in a house in the middle of a technicolor cartoon world, it's tougher to build a narrative the audience can slide into as smoothly. |
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Post by Darth Terrence Malak on Sept 25, 2022 13:22:02 GMT -5
but how do you work around the fact that Link intentionally has no real defined character, voice (metaphorical OR literal), or personality? |
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Malcolm Rants
Grimlock
Wanted something done about the color of his ring.
Posts: 13,432
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Post by Malcolm Rants on Sept 25, 2022 13:26:21 GMT -5
Truth be told, I never cared much for that whole "projecting yourself onto the main character" shit. In fact, I hate "trope enforcement " in general.
I treat videos games like cartoons and comics
Oh, and. Action figures.
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Post by Clash, still not a meter maid on Sept 25, 2022 13:39:17 GMT -5
The fact Nintendo turned down a Super Mario comic series from Archie while they were publishing Sonic and Mega Man books both frustrates me and makes me grateful Sega has traditionally given Sonic writers at least some room for reinterpretation (even with a few loose mandates that may have not been needed).
Granted Sonic was designed off the rip to be cocky and fast and not a blank slate at all, but game fans have an experienced and confident Sonic, SatAM fans get to enjoy the impulsive Sonic who plays off of the level headed Sally, and Paramount Sonic fans have the more kid-like Sonic with Tom Wachowski as his father figure. And he gets challenged like hell throughout the Archie and IDW books (haven’t read a lot of Fleetway Sonic but I know it has a big following). Outside of the 1993 movie and the Mario Adventures comic, Mario isn’t allowed much story freedom or different interpretations other than “I jump, wahoo!”
Like a Mario movie in a Studio Ghibli mold could work because the fantasy setting could easily allow for that. A super serious Mario wouldn’t work because it is a whimsical franchise at its core, but there’s room for it to add a little more “teeth” and maybe give us a really badass Bowser, exploring the Mario and Luigi brotherly bond, a kickass Peach, stuff like that while still keeping the Mario essence.
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y4j1981
Dennis Stamp
Rowsdower
Posts: 4,574
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Post by y4j1981 on Sept 25, 2022 13:49:16 GMT -5
I imagine a beloved and iconic purple clad character will appear who they possibly can't do the movie without, who the fans for years have been clamoring for and at long last gets the opportunity to shine. |
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Malcolm Rants
Grimlock
Wanted something done about the color of his ring.
Posts: 13,432
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Post by Malcolm Rants on Sept 25, 2022 13:49:39 GMT -5
The fact Nintendo turned down a Super Mario comic series from Archie while they were publishing Sonic and Mega Man books both frustrates me and makes me grateful Sega has traditionally given Sonic writers at least some room for reinterpretation (even with a few loose mandates that may have not been needed). Granted Sonic was designed off the rip to be cocky and fast and not a blank slate at all, but game fans have an experienced and confident Sonic, SatAM fans get to enjoy the impulsive Sonic who plays off of the level headed Sally, and Paramount Sonic fans have the more kid-like Sonic with Tom Wachowski as his father figure. And he gets challenged like hell throughout the Archie and IDW books (haven’t read a lot of Fleetway Sonic but I know it has a big following). Outside of the 1993 movie and the Mario Adventures comic, Mario isn’t allowed much story freedom or different interpretations other than “I jump, wahoo!” Like a Mario movie in a Studio Ghibli mold could work because the fantasy setting could easily allow for that. A super serious Mario wouldn’t work because it is a whimsical franchise at its core, but there’s room for it to add a little more “teeth” and maybe give us a really badass Bowser, exploring the Mario and Luigi brotherly bond, a kickass Peach, stuff like that while still keeping the Mario essence. Funny thing is that is that franchise wouldn't even need to do much. Just a comedy series that allowed to show their personalities would be enough to build off of. But Nintendo has largely been keen on keeping the franchise safe, and fandoms with split fan bases are often considered "toxic" due to conflict(which people seem to have forgotten, is actually quite normal in franchises. Mario is not a normal franchise.) |
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Post by Clash, still not a meter maid on Sept 25, 2022 14:36:33 GMT -5
The fact Nintendo turned down a Super Mario comic series from Archie while they were publishing Sonic and Mega Man books both frustrates me and makes me grateful Sega has traditionally given Sonic writers at least some room for reinterpretation (even with a few loose mandates that may have not been needed). Granted Sonic was designed off the rip to be cocky and fast and not a blank slate at all, but game fans have an experienced and confident Sonic, SatAM fans get to enjoy the impulsive Sonic who plays off of the level headed Sally, and Paramount Sonic fans have the more kid-like Sonic with Tom Wachowski as his father figure. And he gets challenged like hell throughout the Archie and IDW books (haven’t read a lot of Fleetway Sonic but I know it has a big following). Outside of the 1993 movie and the Mario Adventures comic, Mario isn’t allowed much story freedom or different interpretations other than “I jump, wahoo!” Like a Mario movie in a Studio Ghibli mold could work because the fantasy setting could easily allow for that. A super serious Mario wouldn’t work because it is a whimsical franchise at its core, but there’s room for it to add a little more “teeth” and maybe give us a really badass Bowser, exploring the Mario and Luigi brotherly bond, a kickass Peach, stuff like that while still keeping the Mario essence. Funny thing is that is that franchise wouldn't even need to do much. Just a comedy series that allowed to show their personalities would be enough to build off of. But Nintendo has largely been keen on keeping the franchise safe, and fandoms with split fan bases are often considered "toxic" due to conflict(which people seem to have forgotten, is actually quite normal in franchises. Mario is not a normal franchise.) Right, it's like with 007, I can appreciate things about the gritter bonds like Craig, Connery and Dalton, while there's Moore and Brosnan Bonds I enjoy as well and OHMSS I feel is underrated. Spider-Verse showed that there's more than one Spider-Man to enjoy. There's no reason Mario can't get the same treatment and still be fine. But I'd rather Nintendo start working on a Starfox movie next if this takes off. |
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Post by HMARK Center on Sept 25, 2022 18:33:09 GMT -5
Truth be told, I never cared much for that whole "projecting yourself onto the main character" shit. In fact, I hate "trope enforcement " in general. I treat videos games like cartoons and comics Oh, and. Action figures. It's fine to prefer it, there's certainly situations when I do, but my point is more that it's a big feature that's helped Mario, Zelda, and a few other of their series avoid going through some of the weirdness that hit other 80s/early 90s flagship franchises during the transition to the era of voiceovers and whatnot. Say what you will, but they remain hugely successful and a big part of it is that by allowing their protagonists to largely be free of specific character traits it enables them a lot more flexibility in terms of what kinds of games you can slot them into, e.g. how Mario can be 2D/3D/RPG/sports/whatever without missing a beat or losing fan support. There are even series where I think that tabula rasa aspect is key to making the series itself work. Like, Metroid absolutely has a cinematic quality about it...but so much of Metroid is about the eeriness of isolation, of Samus not really having anything to say because there's no one to say it to. There's lore sprinkled around, yes, but the defining feature of the series in so many ways is the lonely atmosphere, which they gave the perfect name in the most recent game: dread. If you try and give Samus more of a defined character against such a backdrop, you risk breaking that atmosphere...or making Other M, which is it's own ball of wax. That doesn't mean it works for every series, though; given how it's always been laid out I think Star Fox is absolutely one where Nintendo could allow there to be more of a cinematic quality to it. The characters have always had dialog and personalities, there's a colorful cast of them, and the nature of spaceship dogfight action stuff makes it great material for something that can feel as much like a movie or show without losing what makes the game work. We just actually need Nintendo to, y'know, make a new decent Star Fox, though...would be nice, fellas! Always felt a bit torn with it on Sonic; I'm old enough that I really moved away from the franchise after the Genesis era (I was a SatAM/Adventures of Sonic/Archie comics kid through and through) in large part because they decided Sonic needed a streamlined story/cast/tone/etc. and I just didn't like the Adventure games much, and always felt like Sega of America and Sega of Europe did better Sonic stories and settings than Sega of Japan has. Yet, yeah, it's cool that for so long they still allowed there to be "different Sonics" and just let it roll as different interpretations. Still, there were moments like the Archie storyline where an older Sonic (the "Mobius: 25 Years Later" story) ends up in some kind of time travel chaos that results in his two kids being erased...and the artists were told by Sega of Japan that they had to change a panel that showed Sonic in tearful agony over it with one that left him with a shocked look and single teardrop. Those are the challenges when there's a daddy company that only wants their character presented a specific way, allows juuuuust a bit of creative leeway to other creators, but still pulls the leash at certain points that can feel limiting. |
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tirtefaa
Samurai Cop
If you wanna know the truth, you gotta dig up Johnny Booth.
Posts: 2,223
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Post by tirtefaa on Sept 25, 2022 18:59:57 GMT -5
As far as projecting yourself onto characters...you have to remember a lot of these characters existed at a time when the story in most video games was paper thin at best, usually the backstory came from the manual instead of what you learned in the game, even most text boxes were usually from the beginning and ends of games, with the majority of the middle being largely interrupted.
Even when the technology existed to flesh out these characters, that wasn't a mainstream thing to do until the very late 90's. There's pros and cons with this, but it really comes down to whether or not the player wants the experience of being that person, or if they prefer to be an observer to the events they experience, I for one prefer the former.
Most early games were about the adventure instead of learning about the character. It's the reason why the first Legend of Zelda is still my favorite, because it truly felt the experience of a child exploring the world and discovering things through curiosity or rumors they learned from others. Love the other Zeldas, but this would be the one I would adapt, as it's probably the most wholesome experience. I didn't need to learn about Link because Link was MY link to this fantastical world and reminding me of the adventure of exploration. No one holding my hand...just me wandering around and discovering things.
Video game characters having character only matters to the kind of game you are playing. With fast paced platforming, I want to get to the action. Survival games definitely benefit from character development. Again, it's all a matter of preference, but I'll always take good gameplay over good story.
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Malcolm Rants
Grimlock
Wanted something done about the color of his ring.
Posts: 13,432
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Post by Malcolm Rants on Sept 25, 2022 19:05:46 GMT -5
Truth be told, I never cared much for that whole "projecting yourself onto the main character" shit. In fact, I hate "trope enforcement " in general. I treat videos games like cartoons and comics Oh, and. Action figures. It's fine to prefer it, there's certainly situations when I do, but my point is more that it's a big feature that's helped Mario, Zelda, and a few other of their series avoid going through some of the weirdness that hit other 80s/early 90s flagship franchises during the transition to the era of voiceovers and whatnot. Say what you will, but they remain hugely successful and a big part of it is that by allowing their protagonists to largely be free of specific character traits it enables them a lot more flexibility in terms of what kinds of games you can slot them into, e.g. how Mario can be 2D/3D/RPG/sports/whatever without missing a beat or losing fan support. There are even series where I think that tabula rasa aspect is key to making the series itself work. Like, Metroid absolutely has a cinematic quality about it...but so much of Metroid is about the eeriness of isolation, of Samus not really having anything to say because there's no one to say it to. There's lore sprinkled around, yes, but the defining feature of the series in so many ways is the lonely atmosphere, which they gave the perfect name in the most recent game: dread. If you try and give Samus more of a defined character against such a backdrop, you risk breaking that atmosphere...or making Other M, which is it's own ball of wax. That doesn't mean it works for every series, though; given how it's always been laid out I think Star Fox is absolutely one where Nintendo could allow there to be more of a cinematic quality to it. The characters have always had dialog and personalities, there's a colorful cast of them, and the nature of spaceship dogfight action stuff makes it great material for something that can feel as much like a movie or show without losing what makes the game work. We just actually need Nintendo to, y'know, make a new decent Star Fox, though...would be nice, fellas! Always felt a bit torn with it on Sonic; I'm old enough that I really moved away from the franchise after the Genesis era (I was a SatAM/Adventures of Sonic/Archie comics kid through and through) in large part because they decided Sonic needed a streamlined story/cast/tone/etc. and I just didn't like the Adventure games much, and always felt like Sega of America and Sega of Europe did better Sonic stories and settings than Sega of Japan has. Yet, yeah, it's cool that for so long they still allowed there to be "different Sonics" and just let it roll as different interpretations. Still, there were moments like the Archie storyline where an older Sonic (the "Mobius: 25 Years Later" story) ends up in some kind of time travel chaos that results in his two kids being erased...and the artists were told by Sega of Japan that they had to change a panel that showed Sonic in tearful agony over it with one that left him with a shocked look and single teardrop. Those are the challenges when there's a daddy company that only wants their character presented a specific way, allows juuuuust a bit of creative leeway to other creators, but still pulls the leash at certain points that can feel limiting. High quality games and codifying their respective genres had more to do with their long term success than. arbitrary things like characterization and settings. They did some pretty weird things then(Wind Waker, Sunshine and New Donk City comes to mind) but it was always quality gameplay than shone through. Character and story is nothing more than window dressing, really. |
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Malcolm Rants
Grimlock
Wanted something done about the color of his ring.
Posts: 13,432
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Post by Malcolm Rants on Sept 25, 2022 19:22:38 GMT -5
As far as projecting yourself onto characters...you have to remember a lot of these characters existed at a time when the story in most video games was paper thin at best, usually the backstory came from the manual instead of what you learned in the game, even most text boxes were usually from the beginning and ends of games, with the majority of the middle being largely interrupted. Even when the technology existed to flesh out these characters, that wasn't a mainstream thing to do until the very late 90's. There's pros and cons with this, but it really comes down to whether or not the player wants the experience of being that person, or if they prefer to be an observer to the events they experience, I for one prefer the former. Most early games were about the adventure instead of learning about the character. It's the reason why the first Legend of Zelda is still my favorite, because it truly felt the experience of a child exploring the world and discovering things through curiosity or rumors they learned from others. Love the other Zeldas, but this would be the one I would adapt, as it's probably the most wholesome experience. I didn't need to learn about Link because Link was MY link to this fantastical world and reminding me of the adventure of exploration. No one holding my hand...just me wandering around and discovering things. Video game characters having character only matters to the kind of game you are playing. With fast paced platforming, I want to get to the action. Survival games definitely benefit from character development. Again, it's all a matter of preference, but I'll always take good gameplay over good story. Oh, I'm well aware of why this trope exists and the limits of tech at the time(I've been gaming since I was 4). I'm just annoyed by this insistence that ever game character from this era MUST follow this rule or they're ruined forever because people are scared that they're not what they imagined. |
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Post by Clash, still not a meter maid on Sept 25, 2022 19:38:57 GMT -5
(for those of you who want something really meaty with Sonic, I often like to mention Archie Sonic Online, which picks up after the Robo Sally storyline. This fan made version I felt had a more believable breakdown of Sally’s guilt after she got her normal form back- in the official comic, it’s basically one page with Bunnie comforting her, but ASO gives her a whole issue to deal with her trauma, and she’s still fighting through it.) With me of course I want the darn game to function and not bug out, but engaging characters and story IMO can elevate a good game into something more memorable than a game with amazing gameplay that has just “alright” characters or plot to me. Like, Mario Wii is incredible, one of the best Mario experiences people don’t talk about enough (because Galaxy gets so much attention). But I give Sonic Adventure 2 more replays than Mario Wii on average, and I’m sure you can point out hiccups in SA2’s gameplay in spots, but I’m fine with grinding out some of those harder levels because I’m so into the Shadow arc. It’s not some great masterpiece, but it works in making a game about talking hedgehogs feel more epic than it’s got any right to. Also sometimes whether I prioritize gameplay or character really depends on the genre. MLB or NBA game, don’t care, just make the AI not bullshit. With platformers, a fun story will be a bonus, the key is just making your protagonist feel dynamic and lovable (Crash, Sly, etc). If it’s a JRPG, I want a good battle and level up system obviously but with games like Final Fantasy 7 or 10, 80% of why I’m into it are the cast and story. For fighting games, it’s the same way with like Virtua Fighter, crazy tight and precise gameplay, but I’m more into Street Fighter because their characters are a hundred times more charismatic (outside of Jacky and Jeffrey McWild). And while I may be into a character’s lore, it doesn’t necessarily guarantee I’m going to main them competitively. My favorite SF character’s always been Chun Li, but I pushed up to Super Silver rank using Ken because his pressure tools are stronger in this SF game I feel. |
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Malcolm Rants
Grimlock
Wanted something done about the color of his ring.
Posts: 13,432
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Post by Malcolm Rants on Sept 25, 2022 19:49:02 GMT -5
I'm not saying that every game needs a deep story or lore or characterization.
Just that I'm appreciative of the ones that do exist.
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tirtefaa
Samurai Cop
If you wanna know the truth, you gotta dig up Johnny Booth.
Posts: 2,223
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Post by tirtefaa on Sept 25, 2022 21:27:53 GMT -5
I'm not saying that every game needs a deep story or lore or characterization. Just that I'm appreciative of the ones that do exist. I think many times you can have both. Twilight Princess was probably the happiest medium of having both for me, although it still bugged me that it was too linear. |
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