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Post by EP 54 is banned from Collision on Sept 23, 2021 12:09:13 GMT -5
Yeah, Marty had a chance to get back in peoples good graces, and thus far he's blown it. If he came out with a statement owning up and showing remorse at the beginning, and acted contrite and gave to womens charities, done seminars for young wrestlers where he focused on the proper behaviour outside of the ring he'd probably be building back up his resume way before now. He isn't iredeemable like say J*** R*** is.
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Post by noobeast on Sept 23, 2021 12:20:18 GMT -5
Ok, maybe I'm confused, but didn't he have sex with a girl who was technically legal like, once?
I fully admit, I didn't keep close tabs on the Scurll situation so I apologize in advance if I am ignorant, but all I remember hearing is that he had set with a girl under 18, but old enough to legally consent. If there is more, I would like to know. As it is, people are making him out to be some awful person when really he just made a questionable but legal choice.
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Post by Cyno on Sept 23, 2021 12:39:35 GMT -5
The girl in question was one of his students and was also drunk. Even without age being an issue, that's still underaged drinking in the UK and consent was, to put it mildly, questionable at best.
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Post by noobeast on Sept 23, 2021 12:52:24 GMT -5
The girl in question was one of his students and was also drunk. Even without age being an issue, that's still underaged drinking in the UK and consent was, to put it mildly, questionable at best. OK! See, I didn't know all that. That puts an entirely different spin on it. Thanks for the info!
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Post by Viking Hall on Sept 23, 2021 13:12:30 GMT -5
The girl in question was one of his students and was also drunk. Even without age being an issue, that's still underaged drinking in the UK and consent was, to put it mildly, questionable at best. I thought it was that he had done a seminar previously at the school she trained at, not that he was one of the full time trainers? Also, if we're going to bring the fact that she was drunk into it we should at least mention that he was also equally drunk as confirmed by both parties. If we consider her too drunk to put proper thought into the situation, we should at least extend the same courtesy to the other party as well.
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Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Sept 23, 2021 13:31:13 GMT -5
Yeah, Marty had a chance to get back in peoples good graces, and thus far he's blown it. If he came out with a statement owning up and showing remorse at the beginning, and acted contrite and gave to womens charities, done seminars for young wrestlers where he focused on the proper behaviour outside of the ring he'd probably be building back up his resume way before now. He isn't iredeemable like say J*** R*** is. Took me way too long trying to figure out what “Jimm Ross” had done and that it was Joey Ryan. I knew Marty would try this eventually but..man. This is sad. Just big ‘ol sad. I don’t see his career recuperating.
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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on Sept 23, 2021 14:11:25 GMT -5
Good luck to him. Personally, I really don't have a problem with him being 'back' but it's certainly going to be interesting to see where he ends up. I wonder if he might end up in NOAH or AJPW or something, since I believe a wrestler's exploits outside of Japan aren't really seen as especially important there. They don't have the interest in expanding into the West that NJPW did when they canned him immediately after bringing him back, and I know of a couple of Japanese promotions (albeit much smaller ones) who've booked some very dodgy people in the past. I’m curious who you are thinking of when you say Japan has booked some dodgy people? I know there have been some, but I can’t think of many recently. I know AJPW booked Reid Flair the year he died well after his struggles with heroin came out. I think the consensus at the time was that Reid should just stick away from wrestling and get clean. Also, there is a promotion called Dradition run by Tatsumi Fujinami. They haven’t booked anyone with allegations against them that I know of. The thing with them though is they book legends in matches way after they should have retired for health reasons. Vader even botched in his match shortly before his death which got some press.
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Post by HMARK Center on Sept 23, 2021 14:49:29 GMT -5
The girl in question was one of his students and was also drunk. Even without age being an issue, that's still underaged drinking in the UK and consent was, to put it mildly, questionable at best. I thought it was that he had done a seminar previously at the school she trained at, not that he was one of the full time trainers? Also, if we're going to bring the fact that she was drunk into it we should at least mention that he was also equally drunk as confirmed by both parties. If we consider her too drunk to put proper thought into the situation, we should at least extend the same courtesy to the other party as well. As far as I recall, it was that he had been a guest teacher/seminar provider for a couple of days at her school or something, not that she was one of his students; in fact I'm not sure if Marty had any actual students. That said, while both of them entered the bar drunk already, even in that situation it's still on Marty, a rapidly rising name in his mid-20s at the time (I think) to exercise better discretion than a teenager; drunkenness can impact decision making, for sure, but there are limits. Still, yes: as far as I know there's not evidence of him grooming her or getting her drunk or anything, but even with the age of consent being lower in the UK in that situation it's still looked on as scummy for someone more than only a couple of years older to be hooking up with a sixteen year old like that.
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on Sept 23, 2021 15:39:41 GMT -5
I thought it was that he had done a seminar previously at the school she trained at, not that he was one of the full time trainers? Also, if we're going to bring the fact that she was drunk into it we should at least mention that he was also equally drunk as confirmed by both parties. If we consider her too drunk to put proper thought into the situation, we should at least extend the same courtesy to the other party as well. As far as I recall, it was that he had been a guest teacher/seminar provider for a couple of days at her school or something, not that she was one of his students; in fact I'm not sure if Marty had any actual students. That said, while both of them entered the bar drunk already, even in that situation it's still on Marty, a rapidly rising name in his mid-20s at the time (I think) to exercise better discretion than a teenager; drunkenness can impact decision making, for sure, but there are limits. Still, yes: as far as I know there's not evidence of him grooming her or getting her drunk or anything, but even with the age of consent being lower in the UK in that situation it's still looked on as scummy for someone more than only a couple of years older to be hooking up with a sixteen year old like that. If that were the case, that still reads to me as a teacher-student power dynamic, especially considering the power dynamic of his rapidly raising name in the industry as you mentioned. Replace wrestling with any other profession having a seminar attended by a 16-year-old and it reads just as sleazy.
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Fundertaker
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Post by Fundertaker on Sept 23, 2021 16:04:50 GMT -5
I wonder if he might end up in NOAH or AJPW or something, since I believe a wrestler's exploits outside of Japan aren't really seen as especially important there. They don't have the interest in expanding into the West that NJPW did when they canned him immediately after bringing him back, and I know of a couple of Japanese promotions (albeit much smaller ones) who've booked some very dodgy people in the past. I’m curious who you are thinking of when you say Japan has booked some dodgy people? I know there have been some, but I can’t think of many recently. I know AJPW booked Reid Flair the year he died well after his struggles with heroin came out. I think the consensus at the time was that Reid should just stick away from wrestling and get clean. Also, there is a promotion called Dradition run by Tatsumi Fujinami. They haven’t booked anyone with allegations against them that I know of. The thing with them though is they book legends in matches way after they should have retired for health reasons. Vader even botched in his match shortly before his death which got some press. Well, Colega Pro, PPP, J-STAR and other micro-indies have been booking Joji Otani, so there's those, but then again I don't know how his case ended up after he was initially arrested.
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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on Sept 23, 2021 16:11:11 GMT -5
I’m curious who you are thinking of when you say Japan has booked some dodgy people? I know there have been some, but I can’t think of many recently. I know AJPW booked Reid Flair the year he died well after his struggles with heroin came out. I think the consensus at the time was that Reid should just stick away from wrestling and get clean. Also, there is a promotion called Dradition run by Tatsumi Fujinami. They haven’t booked anyone with allegations against them that I know of. The thing with them though is they book legends in matches way after they should have retired for health reasons. Vader even botched in his match shortly before his death which got some press. Well, Colega Pro, PPP, J-STAR and other micro-indies have been booking Joji Otani, so there's those, but then again I don't know how his case ended up after he was initially arrested. I never heard of that guy before you posted. But I Googled and what he did pops right up. More troubling, he’s wrestled 45 matches so far this year for more than a half dozen promotions.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Sept 23, 2021 16:21:59 GMT -5
Yeah, like Tessa is someone who I could see maybe getting hired. Not likely, but maybe. Joey and Marty are both firmly in "not f***ing happening" territory, both because they were friends who betrayed their trust in a personal way, which resulted in BTE basically unpersoning both of them, and Joey's attempt to launch a SLAPP lawsuit directed at Penelope Ford. Cornette has a higher chance of appearing on a Dynamite than either guy combined. Hangman Page seems to like, outright hate Marty Scurll now, too. Yeah, they were I think previously the closest, and Hangman used to be a teacher who taught teens, so I think it makes sense he took the revelation hardest.
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Fundertaker
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Post by Fundertaker on Sept 23, 2021 16:23:43 GMT -5
Well, Colega Pro, PPP, J-STAR and other micro-indies have been booking Joji Otani, so there's those, but then again I don't know how his case ended up after he was initially arrested. I never heard of that guy before you posted. But I Googled and what he did pops right up. More troubling, he’s wrestled 45 matches so far this year for more than a half dozen promotions. Yup. But those are already real small indies even for what he was doing before. He was part of the HEAT-UP roster, which is an indy promotion of some size and importance but far from, say, ZERO1 or BJW. And the companies he's been booked in are even lower on the totem pole than that, so they're the ones that don't really care who they book as long as its cheap.
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Post by HMARK Center on Sept 23, 2021 16:27:34 GMT -5
As far as I recall, it was that he had been a guest teacher/seminar provider for a couple of days at her school or something, not that she was one of his students; in fact I'm not sure if Marty had any actual students. That said, while both of them entered the bar drunk already, even in that situation it's still on Marty, a rapidly rising name in his mid-20s at the time (I think) to exercise better discretion than a teenager; drunkenness can impact decision making, for sure, but there are limits. Still, yes: as far as I know there's not evidence of him grooming her or getting her drunk or anything, but even with the age of consent being lower in the UK in that situation it's still looked on as scummy for someone more than only a couple of years older to be hooking up with a sixteen year old like that. If that were the case, that still reads to me as a teacher-student power dynamic, especially considering the power dynamic of his rapidly raising name in the industry as you mentioned. Replace wrestling with any other profession having a seminar attended by a 16-year-old and it reads just as sleazy. What I can fully agree with is that Marty had the responsibility of being aware of his status in the industry, particularly when around people who are just starting out. Someone in a position like that should be aware of how their notoriety, even if it's only minor or only to people within a particular community, can impact the way others interact with them, and again it means, whether they feel it's fair or not, that they have to be more thoughtful and responsible about those interactions, particularly when it involves younger people who are likely to look up to them. Whether or not someone signed up to be in that position doesn't much matter, because they simply are in it and need to handle it better or more maturely than someone who isn't. But I'm not sure I can really agree on the teacher-student dynamic, at least in a case like this (though there can certainly be details to the story I'm not fully aware of). In a full teacher-student situation there's a crystal clear power dynamic at play that can more easily imply or outright create an explicit quid pro quo situation, i.e. "do this for me and I can make sure you get booked", or "do this and I'll make sure you get the better training/marks/roles/spots", etc. When it's a full relationship it gives the potential predator ample time to groom someone, to manipulate and gain the student's trust, all the hallmarks of a much deeper, toxic situation. When it's someone just passing through for a seminar? I have a harder time seeing it the same way, since there isn't the time for that fully manipulative dynamic and potential quid pro quo expectation to take root. That's not to say it can't exist, and again I agree that Marty's relative fame gave him the outsized power in this dynamic (e.g. even if he didn't try to hint at it there can still be an air of "well, getting with this guy could help my career...", which is unhealthy no matter how you slice it), but by being someone "just passing through" it follows that he doesn't wield the same kind of power that a full time teacher/booker doing this with a student/talent would. Again, though, it doesn't excuse what happened; what I'm describing here is a bit more about the possible mindset involved in the situation, but the act itself is still what there needs to be accountability for, which I think most of us agree on.
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Post by Jaws the Shark on Sept 23, 2021 16:28:56 GMT -5
I wonder if he might end up in NOAH or AJPW or something, since I believe a wrestler's exploits outside of Japan aren't really seen as especially important there. They don't have the interest in expanding into the West that NJPW did when they canned him immediately after bringing him back, and I know of a couple of Japanese promotions (albeit much smaller ones) who've booked some very dodgy people in the past. I’m curious who you are thinking of when you say Japan has booked some dodgy people? I know there have been some, but I can’t think of many recently. I know AJPW booked Reid Flair the year he died well after his struggles with heroin came out. I think the consensus at the time was that Reid should just stick away from wrestling and get clean. Also, there is a promotion called Dradition run by Tatsumi Fujinami. They haven’t booked anyone with allegations against them that I know of. The thing with them though is they book legends in matches way after they should have retired for health reasons. Vader even botched in his match shortly before his death which got some press. I heard that 666 booked Strangler Davis after he got blackballed from pretty much every British promotion. It apparently happened in 2018 and there are big gaps in the information on when the cards were and who was on them though, so I can't really verify it. But that's who I was thinking of.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2021 16:48:58 GMT -5
If that were the case, that still reads to me as a teacher-student power dynamic, especially considering the power dynamic of his rapidly raising name in the industry as you mentioned. Replace wrestling with any other profession having a seminar attended by a 16-year-old and it reads just as sleazy. What I can fully agree with is that Marty had the responsibility of being aware of his status in the industry, particularly when around people who are just starting out. Someone in a position like that should be aware of how their notoriety, even if it's only minor or only to people within a particular community, can impact the way others interact with them, and again it means, whether they feel it's fair or not, that they have to be more thoughtful and responsible about those interactions, particularly when it involves younger people who are likely to look up to them. Whether or not someone signed up to be in that position doesn't much matter, because they simply are in it and need to handle it better or more maturely than someone who isn't. But I'm not sure I can really agree on the teacher-student dynamic, at least in a case like this (though there can certainly be details to the story I'm not fully aware of). In a full teacher-student situation there's a crystal clear power dynamic at play that can more easily imply or outright create an explicit quid pro quo situation, i.e. "do this for me and I can make sure you get booked", or "do this and I'll make sure you get the better training/marks/roles/spots", etc. When it's a full relationship it gives the potential predator ample time to groom someone, to manipulate and gain the student's trust, all the hallmarks of a much deeper, toxic situation. When it's someone just passing through for a seminar? I have a harder time seeing it the same way, since there isn't the time for that fully manipulative dynamic and potential quid pro quo expectation to take root. That's not to say it can't exist, and again I agree that Marty's relative fame gave him the outsized power in this dynamic (e.g. even if he didn't try to hint at it there can still be an air of "well, getting with this guy could help my career...", which is unhealthy no matter how you slice it), but by being someone "just passing through" it follows that he doesn't wield the same kind of power that a full time teacher/booker doing this with a student/talent would. Again, though, it doesn't excuse what happened; what I'm describing here is a bit more about the possible mindset involved in the situation, but the act itself is still what there needs to be accountable for, which I think most of us agree on. I'll just put it this way he was friends with her dad.
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Convoy
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Post by Convoy on Sept 23, 2021 18:31:47 GMT -5
I literally learned the word “nonce” from a British friend who told me the stories of “Party Marty” taking payment in flesh years ago. I feel pretty good knowing he’s not getting near AEW, especially if he couldn’t even get shown on NJPW Strong.
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Post by Natural Born Farmer on Sept 23, 2021 19:18:53 GMT -5
Is his forehead scarred to shit or is that an awful promo photo?
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Post by HMARK Center on Sept 23, 2021 19:30:07 GMT -5
I literally learned the word “nonce” from a British friend who told me the stories of “Party Marty” taking payment in flesh years ago. I feel pretty good knowing he’s not getting near AEW, especially if he couldn’t even get shown on NJPW Strong. Now this would definitely put things in a different light; if Marty was more regularly partaking in a lot of the worst and more abusive aspects of the BritWres scene that got exposed over the last year, rather than just this standing out as a singular case of "poor and irresponsible decision making", it definitely adds another wrinkle.
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Post by King Devitt: Scrum Guzzler on Sept 23, 2021 19:53:46 GMT -5
I hate to sound hyperbolic, but this guy could go down as one of the bigger "what if's" in wrestling history.
The man was poised to be a mega-star in pro wrestling.
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