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Post by Andy Martin on Oct 16, 2021 21:25:36 GMT -5
This is where I land on it as well. To be honest, I find both products to be just “alright” in the grand scheme of things with some good, some bad, and some ugly on their programs. It’s the tribalism foolishness that can really suck the enjoyment out of watching either one. I’m so hard in the “I can get something out of all three major companies now in NJPW, WWE and AEW and also enjoy some Stardom, MLW and AJPW on the side” camp these days. Exactly! There’s A LOT to enjoy out there these days for whatever your tastes are, so to boil it down into an “us versus them” type of mentality just feels childish.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Oct 16, 2021 21:26:02 GMT -5
I really find the whole concept of WWE beating WCW pretty much completely laughable. WCW was probably one of the most wildly incompetent wrestling companies to ever exist, with pretty much no point in time when it had any f***ing clue what it was doing, and yet still managed to be a huge threat to them before essentially killing itself. Vince had basically nothing to do with it going under.
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Post by El Cokehead del Knife Fight on Oct 16, 2021 21:27:45 GMT -5
This is what I mean. Who's to say WWE wants AEW out of business? I see it as somewhat as the opposite. WWE doesn't acknowledge AEW on tv, where AEW takes jabs often. If they wanted AEW out they would would work harder to keep talent on their roster. Man that's some serious re-writing of history. Ted Turner signed the checks and gave them the timeslot & advertising, he wasn't running the show at all.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Oct 16, 2021 21:28:43 GMT -5
This is what I mean. Who's to say WWE wants AEW out of business? I see it as somewhat as the opposite. WWE doesn't acknowledge AEW on tv, where AEW takes jabs often. If they wanted AEW out they would would work harder to keep talent on their roster. They weaponized NXT to counterprogram Dynamite. There’s no possible explanation for that other than WWE’s arrogance leading them to believe they could stamp AEW out before it started. I think they’ve backed off it a bit since then, but WWE definitely tried to snuff AEW out in the beginning. And the failure of NXT to actually kill off Dynamite is repeatedly said to be one of the reasons for Triple H losing power, not to mention the idea that it no longer being direct competition in the time slot being cited as a reason why it's been scaled down and turned back into a developmental shwo with a lot more upper management guidance. There's a lot to back up the idea that WWE wants/wanted AEW gone.
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Post by Cyno on Oct 16, 2021 21:29:21 GMT -5
WWE's done a lot of things to be aggressive against AEW's business. AEW takes jabs at them, but also doesn't go out of their way to directly compete with them. The only reason this thread even exists is because WWE scheduled a last minute, random overrun to hurt Rampage.
To play the "both sides are just as bad" game is a blatant false equivalency.
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Chiral
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Post by Chiral on Oct 16, 2021 21:30:38 GMT -5
WWE's done a lot of things to be aggressive against AEW's business. AEW takes jabs at them, but also doesn't go out of their way to directly compete with them. The only reason this thread even exists is because WWE scheduled a last minute, random overrun to hurt Rampage. To play the "both sides are just as bad" game is a blatant false equivalency. Yeah if I never see a "both sides are the same bad levels actually" post in relation to WWE vs. AEW it'll be too soon lol
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Post by Pgarodactyl on Oct 16, 2021 21:31:26 GMT -5
AEW got close to SD! besides having 30 minutes competing, SD! getting extra tv time and being in a worst time slot. If anything WWE should be upset it was this close,I never expected Rampage to beat it. To be fair Smackdown was also on a channel that is not very accessible and AEW was on its normal channel at its normal timeslot. Either way we as fans won.
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on Oct 16, 2021 21:37:56 GMT -5
This is what I mean. Who's to say WWE wants AEW out of business? I see it as somewhat as the opposite. WWE doesn't acknowledge AEW on tv, where AEW takes jabs often. If they wanted AEW out they would would work harder to keep talent on their roster. They weaponized NXT to counterprogram Dynamite. There’s no possible explanation for that other than WWE’s arrogance leading them to believe they could stamp AEW out before it started. I think they’ve backed off it a bit since then, but WWE definitely tried to snuff AEW out in the beginning. That's fair enough, but at the same time, they really didn't do much to make NXT worth a damn in that time period. They seemed a bit lackadaisical to kinda let AEW take the night. NXT felt a lot more of a bigger deal when it was unopposed off USA.
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06vwgti
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Post by 06vwgti on Oct 16, 2021 21:41:42 GMT -5
WWE's done a lot of things to be aggressive against AEW's business. AEW takes jabs at them, but also doesn't go out of their way to directly compete with them. The only reason this thread even exists is because WWE scheduled a last minute, random overrun to hurt Rampage. To play the "both sides are just as bad" game is a blatant false equivalency. It's probably going to be the little things, like what happened this week with timing the extra 30 minutes just to encroach on their time, blocking arenas from being used, etc.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2021 21:44:09 GMT -5
They weaponized NXT to counterprogram Dynamite. There’s no possible explanation for that other than WWE’s arrogance leading them to believe they could stamp AEW out before it started. I think they’ve backed off it a bit since then, but WWE definitely tried to snuff AEW out in the beginning. That's fair enough, but at the same time, they really didn't do much to make NXT worth a damn in that time period. They seemed a bit lackadaisical to kinda let AEW take the night. NXT felt a lot more of a bigger deal when it was unopposed off USA. I think that WWE at least thought it was doing things to make NXT feel bigger during that time period, with stuff like NXT being treated as on par with the other two brands, Charlotte and Finn showing up, etc… It’s just, the booking wasn’t particularly good so it all fell flat and WWE pivoted to the “eh, we weren’t trying THAT hard to beat them, honestly” narrative.
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Post by Tenshigure on Oct 17, 2021 1:16:01 GMT -5
I really find the whole concept of WWE beating WCW pretty much completely laughable. WCW was probably one of the most wildly incompetent wrestling companies to ever exist, with pretty much no point in time when it had any f***ing clue what it was doing, and yet still managed to be a huge threat to them before essentially killing itself. Vince had basically nothing to do with it going under. Makes you wonder what kind of world we would be living in pro wrestling wise if Jerry Jarrett successfully bought WCW instead of forming TNA.
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Post by lildude8218 on Oct 17, 2021 1:54:46 GMT -5
I really find the whole concept of WWE beating WCW pretty much completely laughable. WCW was probably one of the most wildly incompetent wrestling companies to ever exist, with pretty much no point in time when it had any f***ing clue what it was doing, and yet still managed to be a huge threat to them before essentially killing itself. Vince had basically nothing to do with it going under. Makes you wonder what kind of world we would be living in pro wrestling wise if Jerry Jarrett successfully bought WCW instead of forming TNA. Well...you know....
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Post by stoptheclocks on Oct 17, 2021 2:08:29 GMT -5
The fast nationals we already have reason to think are pretty dirty are doubly useless here, because only the quarter-hours are going to be a worthwhile comparison. It's WWE trying to control the narrative early again. You wanna talk about stoking tribalism and toxicity? The only reason to drop these numbers when they neither complete nor the ones that need to be compared in the first place is to give one side a chance to yell, assume victory, and take an obnoxious victory lap with it before anything is properly resolved. We're in another one of those "one side is doing something objectively worse in this exact same situation but okay" zones now with this. People who want these numbers to mean more are going to have an actual statement to go around bludgeoning people with, and WWE intentionally shaped up a handle for them. When you talk about one side being objectively worse - do you mean the leaking of ratings vs making obnoxious statements on Twitter stoking this 'war'? Because one of those things comes directly from the owners account, and the other is based off a vague unconfirmed report. Like who are we saying is 'WWE' in this context?
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Oct 17, 2021 3:03:19 GMT -5
The fast nationals we already have reason to think are pretty dirty are doubly useless here, because only the quarter-hours are going to be a worthwhile comparison. It's WWE trying to control the narrative early again. You wanna talk about stoking tribalism and toxicity? The only reason to drop these numbers when they neither complete nor the ones that need to be compared in the first place is to give one side a chance to yell, assume victory, and take an obnoxious victory lap with it before anything is properly resolved. We're in another one of those "one side is doing something objectively worse in this exact same situation but okay" zones now with this. People who want these numbers to mean more are going to have an actual statement to go around bludgeoning people with, and WWE intentionally shaped up a handle for them. When you talk about one side being objectively worse - do you mean the leaking of ratings vs making obnoxious statements on Twitter stoking this 'war'? Because one of those things comes directly from the owners account, and the other is based off a vague unconfirmed report. Like who are we saying is 'WWE' in this context? If WWE is indeed leaking the fast nationals as Voices of Wrestling reported, and I do trust their reporting, then yeah, I see that as significantly worse of a move if we're talking about stoking. Tony Khan's statement was that he would beat Smackdown head to head. He was gonna put on a show and it would be more successful during their head to head period. That's it. He promoted his show, expressed confidence it would win. He's being a promoter, and you can discuss the validity of using the overrun and trying to stoke the flames as a promotional tactic, but the ultimate goal there is still to promote. WWE, in leaking incomplete and inaccurate numbers that aren't actually what this was about, is not making a statement or promoting their show, but directly trying to steer the conversation in a certain way through misuse of early numbers and handing them over to journalists to report on so as to let everyone go "Oh WWE already won". We'll know on Monday the real numbers, but WWE wanted to make sure from the very moment they could that everyone would be saying AEW lost. Just because it's through proxies doesn't mean it's not doing the same thing people criticized Tony Khan for in the very start of this situation. Tony Khan made a statement of intent and used it to promote his show. WWE is being creative and misleading with numbers solely to get the hardcores to react a certain way. It seems pretty cut and dry to me.
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Oct 17, 2021 3:55:52 GMT -5
There's a whole lot of not Standing Up For WWE going on here and I won't... stand for it...
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Post by stoptheclocks on Oct 17, 2021 4:30:46 GMT -5
When you talk about one side being objectively worse - do you mean the leaking of ratings vs making obnoxious statements on Twitter stoking this 'war'? Because one of those things comes directly from the owners account, and the other is based off a vague unconfirmed report. Like who are we saying is 'WWE' in this context? If WWE is indeed leaking the fast nationals as Voices of Wrestling reported, and I do trust their reporting, then yeah, I see that as significantly worse of a move if we're talking about stoking. Tony Khan's statement was that he would beat Smackdown head to head. He was gonna put on a show and it would be more successful during their head to head period. That's it. He promoted his show, expressed confidence it would win. He's being a promoter, and you can discuss the validity of using the overrun and trying to stoke the flames as a promotional tactic, but the ultimate goal there is still to promote. WWE, in leaking incomplete and inaccurate numbers that aren't actually what this was about, is not making a statement or promoting their show, but directly trying to steer the conversation in a certain way through misuse of early numbers and handing them over to journalists to report on so as to let everyone go "Oh WWE already won". We'll know on Monday the real numbers, but WWE wanted to make sure from the very moment they could that everyone would be saying AEW lost. Just because it's through proxies doesn't mean it's not doing the same thing people criticized Tony Khan for in the very start of this situation. Tony Khan made a statement of intent and used it to promote his show. WWE is being creative and misleading with numbers solely to get the hardcores to react a certain way. It seems pretty cut and dry to me. I think that goes back to the question of who is WWE? It's hard to say it's objectively worse when there's so much interpretation involved to get there. The first 10 pages of this thread were people saying this was no big deal and all part of the fun of two companies going head to head. The last five or so is all about how awful the other side is, Vincels and WWE trolls. I think the AEW vs WWE thing is clearly pretty toxic, particularly on Twitter. People from either company deliberately stoking that up - while not exactly crime of the century stuff - is at the very least unneccesary. It's multi-multi-millionaires riling up people who are too invest in this, to spend all day fighting on their behalf. To paint Tony as not doing that, just innocently promoting his show, seems disingenuous to me. Whenever the ratings do come out you can guarantee that he will post something slanted to AEW having 'won' vs WWE and this whole thing will go round and round again.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Oct 17, 2021 4:48:24 GMT -5
I'd like to pretend it actually IS Vince. Like, he's spending all his time getting early AEW ratings numbers out to reporters and scripting things for his wrestlers to say in interviews as opposed to, you know, booking his wrestling promotion.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Oct 17, 2021 4:49:46 GMT -5
If WWE is indeed leaking the fast nationals as Voices of Wrestling reported, and I do trust their reporting, then yeah, I see that as significantly worse of a move if we're talking about stoking. Tony Khan's statement was that he would beat Smackdown head to head. He was gonna put on a show and it would be more successful during their head to head period. That's it. He promoted his show, expressed confidence it would win. He's being a promoter, and you can discuss the validity of using the overrun and trying to stoke the flames as a promotional tactic, but the ultimate goal there is still to promote. WWE, in leaking incomplete and inaccurate numbers that aren't actually what this was about, is not making a statement or promoting their show, but directly trying to steer the conversation in a certain way through misuse of early numbers and handing them over to journalists to report on so as to let everyone go "Oh WWE already won". We'll know on Monday the real numbers, but WWE wanted to make sure from the very moment they could that everyone would be saying AEW lost. Just because it's through proxies doesn't mean it's not doing the same thing people criticized Tony Khan for in the very start of this situation. Tony Khan made a statement of intent and used it to promote his show. WWE is being creative and misleading with numbers solely to get the hardcores to react a certain way. It seems pretty cut and dry to me. I think that goes back to the question of who is WWE? It's hard to say it's objectively worse when there's so much interpretation involved to get there. The first 10 pages of this thread were people saying this was no big deal and all part of the fun of two companies going head to head. The last five or so is all about how awful the other side is, Vincels and WWE trolls. I think the AEW vs WWE thing is clearly pretty toxic, particularly on Twitter. People from either company deliberately stoking that up - while not exactly crime of the century stuff - is at the very least unneccesary. It's multi-multi-millionaires riling up people who are too invest in this, to spend all day fighting on their behalf. To paint Tony as not doing that, just innocently promoting his show, seems disingenuous to me. Whenever the ratings do come out you can guarantee that he will post something slanted to AEW having 'won' vs WWE and this whole thing will go round and round again. The original post condemned it, and there is a lot of condemnation sprinkled through the thread. TK got compared to Trump for that tweet. And I'm not painting him as 'just innocently promoting his show'. I'm saying what he did had practical effects that weren't only trying to stir the pot. He did it by stirring the pot. He capitalized on a stirred pot. That part isn't anything I'm denying. I'm saying that misleading people with incomplete numbers and using the media as a proxy, with no actual gain other than trying to stir the pot, stands to me as worse. There is no gain, there is only divisiveness. There is only the intention to provoke, with nobody saying "Hey thanks loyal Smackdown fans for staying with us and winning us the night, tune in again next week to the best wrestling on Friday nights". That's the difference.
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Post by eJm on Oct 17, 2021 5:01:56 GMT -5
I'd like to pretend it actually IS Vince. Like, he's spending all his time getting early AEW ratings numbers out to reporters and scripting things for his wrestlers to say in interviews as opposed to, you know, booking his wrestling promotion. *tries to browse Showbuzz but clicks a pop-up for “girls in your local area* “Wait, is this…porn? NICK! YOU DIDN’T TELL BT SPORTS WE’RE COMPETING AGAINST PORN?! WE’RE F***ED!”
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Post by HMARK Center on Oct 17, 2021 5:14:17 GMT -5
Yes. Bread has been made as a bread, then you put in stuff - in this case a hot dog - that wasn't involved in the creation of said bread. P.S. Anyone who says otherwise is in trouble. Mod trouble. Yes, but if someone said they were going to get sandwiches and came back with hot dogs... while they are technically sandwiches are not what saying you are going to get a sandwich implies and they damn well know that The true fight is over whether it's permissible to refer to a sub sandwich as a hoagie.
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