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Post by eJm on Oct 13, 2021 18:24:37 GMT -5
I’ll be honest, if I never have to hear the words “casual viewer” again, it’ll be way too soon. Because every time I hear it, I never get the sense that people know who this casual viewer, whether they actually exist or what has to be done to actually get them on board. And honestly, considering what they’ve been doing so far…it doesn’t seem like they need to change very much right now? Because stuff seems to be working. The casual viewer is the lapsed viewer or the one flipping through channels...I have had multiple people reach out to me on FB after posting about AEW these last two years asking if they should watch, the differences between wwe and aew, etc...Those to me are the casual fans. The fans that tuned in to Punk's debut and fell out after nothing grabbed their attention. My personal opinion is that they need to cut some time off their matches and dedicate them to vignettes. Show the cable flipping audience (yes they do still exist especially in rural areas like mine where internet data caps exist and prices are expensive) a reason to stick around. Besides many of the points you said being hyperbolic (People not sticking around feels a bit disingenuous when they had a growth in August and September from Dynamite alone) That’s never what I’m asking with that question; who are they? What do they look for in a show? Do they follow other long series TV shows? How many streaming subscriptions do they have? Are they sports lovers? Can they follow the MCU? Because I feel people don’t realize that there are way more variables than just “I’m hopping from channel to channel and need something to watch” because there are so many other options besides even TV these days, nobody has a clear cut idea of what actually defines “casual” besides extremely broad points. And also, as fans, why do we obsess over that stuff? Because Russo talked about it for months straight on WWF and WCW TV? Because he spent the first few years of TNA’s history making it a storyline?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2021 18:28:17 GMT -5
I’ll be honest, if I never have to hear the words “casual viewer” again, it’ll be way too soon. Because every time I hear it, I never get the sense that people know who this casual viewer, whether they actually exist or what has to be done to actually get them on board. And honestly, considering what they’ve been doing so far…it doesn’t seem like they need to change very much right now? Because stuff seems to be working. Wrestling is such a weird circus these days that I don't think "casual viewers", "hardcore viewers" or the dreaded "IWC viewer" really exists anymore. They've all kind of just melded into one. It does come off pretty "how do you do fellow children" when people try to dictate who a casual viewer is and what they would like. As with anything else it's just my personal perspective. I agree with the melting pot as we have a large selection of people that watch both products only to complain week in and week out.
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ASYLUMHAUSEN
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Post by ASYLUMHAUSEN on Oct 13, 2021 18:34:23 GMT -5
I’ll be honest, if I never have to hear the words “casual viewer” again, it’ll be way too soon. Because every time I hear it, I never get the sense that people know who this casual viewer, whether they actually exist or what has to be done to actually get them on board. And honestly, considering what they’ve been doing so far…it doesn’t seem like they need to change very much right now? Because stuff seems to be working. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. The idea of the elusive casual fan is just carny/tv executive/writer speak for; “we refuse to realize that the segmentation of viewing options and platforms means the kinds of numbers we saw in 1998 will never happen again. Not even close. But we still refuse to believe it so we chase a goddamn ghost.”
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Oct 13, 2021 18:36:46 GMT -5
"Not patient enough to read all of that" would be where I stand.
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Post by corndog on Oct 13, 2021 18:39:07 GMT -5
It's a simple list of priorities: 1. Keep existing regular viewers. One way is not actively driving them away by listening to the author of this article. 2. Provide lapsed fans, occasional viewers, those loyal to other promotions and the curious a reason to tune in. Maybe Bryan in a big match in Dynamite. 3. While group 2 are around give them a positive experience with what they wanted to see and other things on the show they can latch onto long-term so they become regular viewers. Infinitely repeat those steps. Do it well you get positive momentumn and those fans will recruit new ones. They've mostly got the balance right. Patient long-term booking but with enough exciting things happening to attract new fans and ensure people don't get bored waiting. The dumb thing is most of the things he asks for are already there to some degree. They can be patient to a fault. Everything else is window dressing but the violence and skimpy outfits are there, just presented in way that doesn't alienate too many people rather than just appealing to 13 year old boys. For the most part, they are doing a lot of things right. It will be a struggle for AEW to get many more viewers because of all of the cord cutting, especially since COVID. I wonder how many of those watching Raw in 2014 even have cable? As long as TNT is happy with the numbers, which are pretty good and their live attendence has been strong, they will be fine.
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Chiral
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Post by Chiral on Oct 13, 2021 18:39:25 GMT -5
Wrestling chasing the mythical casual fan reminds me of Nintendo's disastrous efforts to keep the "blue ocean" fans that joined for the Wii and left console gaming for mobile and whatever else during the Wii U times, then they had a huge hit appealing more to people with the Switch by focusing on it being a gaming machine instead of broadly trying to win back an audience that's spread out and moved on and won't come back.
IDK what the wrestling equivalent of the Wii U would be, go with Global Force Wrestling or TNA or whatever
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Post by Cyno on Oct 13, 2021 18:44:16 GMT -5
Wrestling chasing the mythical casual fan reminds me of Nintendo's disastrous efforts to keep the "blue ocean" fans that joined for the Wii and left console gaming for mobile and whatever else during the Wii U times, then they had a huge hit appealing more to people with the Switch by focusing on it being a gaming machine instead of broadly trying to win back an audience that's spread out and moved on and won't come back. IDK what the wrestling equivalent of the Wii U would be, go with Global Force Wrestling or TNA or whatever The Wii U is probably equivalent to the GFW/TNA/Impact era where they couldn't figure out a straight name or ownership situation for the thing and it just confused everyone. Much like how people were confused about the Wii U if it was a new console or an upgrade to the Wii. Though Nintendo probably had less Nazis than TNA did at that point in time.
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Kalmia
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Post by Kalmia on Oct 13, 2021 18:59:42 GMT -5
I think I lost brain cells scanning over that. I could point out many, many things but I'm just going to focus on the "put women in bikinis again" nonsense. As a female viewer of AEW, nothing would make me stop watching faster than seeing women reduced to that crap again. AEW already struggles with the female audience and although I don't speak for every woman, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't increase female viewership if AEW went back to the eye candy days.
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Post by Starshine on Oct 13, 2021 19:08:00 GMT -5
I’ll be honest, if I never have to hear the words “casual viewer” again, it’ll be way too soon. Because every time I hear it, I never get the sense that people know who this casual viewer, whether they actually exist or what has to be done to actually get them on board. And honestly, considering what they’ve been doing so far…it doesn’t seem like they need to change very much right now? Because stuff seems to be working. "Casual viewer" has basically become the pro wrestling strawman for insincere arguments against booking tropes the author doesn't like. Such as the typical: 'AEW has too many angles going on at the same time, and the casual viewer can't keep up,' which I suspect is more of a shrouded defense of WWE booking tropes. The whole thing falls apart when you consider shows like Game of Thrones being as successful as it was while having multiple streams of unconnected and interwoven stories going on all the time. The point is, the so-called "casual viewer" is not the drooling idiot the strawman weaver paints them to be. The casual viewer will tune into a show that either a) has a lot of positive buzz (FOMO effect), b) catches their interest and intrigue, and/or c) feels like it's worth the time cost involved.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Oct 13, 2021 19:12:07 GMT -5
The only thing that article told me is we should never post another Aaron Rift writeup on FAN again... good lord what a disaster.
I'm honestly still beyond shocked NoDQ is still a thing tbh.
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Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Oct 13, 2021 19:26:29 GMT -5
I’ll be honest, if I never have to hear the words “casual viewer” again, it’ll be way too soon. Because every time I hear it, I never get the sense that people know who this casual viewer, whether they actually exist or what has to be done to actually get them on board. And honestly, considering what they’ve been doing so far…it doesn’t seem like they need to change very much right now? Because stuff seems to be working. The casual viewer is the lapsed viewer or the one flipping through channels...I have had multiple people reach out to me on FB after posting about AEW these last two years asking if they should watch, the differences between wwe and aew, etc...Those to me are the casual fans. The fans that tuned in to Punk's debut and fell out after nothing grabbed their attention. My personal opinion is that they need to cut some time off their matches and dedicate them to vignettes. Show the cable flipping audience (yes they do still exist especially in rural areas like mine where internet data caps exist and prices are expensive) a reason to stick around and who these people are...Both in the past and now. I get that mentality and basically the gist of your argument. I’ve even had similar thoughts about the Vignette/matches thing but it’s dangerous in itself in alienating the core audience. There’s no sure-fire way to “attract the casual viewer” for wrestling anymore I think. Stars and angles and what-not but even WWE struggles with that and that’s their bread and butter. Their (AEW) best best is just to continue to put the best product they can the way that they have.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Oct 13, 2021 19:28:54 GMT -5
I’ll be honest, if I never have to hear the words “casual viewer” again, it’ll be way too soon. Because every time I hear it, I never get the sense that people know who this casual viewer, whether they actually exist or what has to be done to actually get them on board. And honestly, considering what they’ve been doing so far…it doesn’t seem like they need to change very much right now? Because stuff seems to be working. Wrestling is such a weird circus these days that I don't think "casual viewers", "hardcore viewers" or the dreaded "IWC viewer" really exists anymore. They've all kind of just melded into one. It does come off pretty "how do you do fellow children" when people try to dictate who a casual viewer is and what they would like. Like, I can point to 'casual fans' I know, but they aren't really feeding any real statement. I've got friends who don't follow the weekly shows much but hang around our group chat, watch Youtube clips sometimes, ask questions, and show up to watch PPVs with us. I know people who tune in, watch the show, say little to nothing about the show, don't participate in discussions anywhere about the show, and move on. What those people are into and what they like aren't necessarily the things I've seen the svengali "here's how to win back the casual fans" folk are ever necessarily on about. We sat some non-fan friends down to watch the first Double Or Nothing and nobody was confused by the fact Excalibur wore a mask despite being a commentator, comedy stuff got over great with them, cool spots got over great, the Cody match got over great. There is no monolithic market to chase and no singular kind of person who you can pursue. There are millions and millions of people who saw an Avengers movie once and then never again. Millions more who go see virtually every Marvel movie with friends and don't keep up with the news about them. There's people who talk endlessly about it online, follow the release schedules and theorycraft. There's people who consume every scrap of television to go along with it. There's people who write labor of love fanfics about Thor and Loki kissing. There's obsessive comic book fans who can pinpoint the exact issue a scene might be referencing or which storylines are being pulled from for a movie. So many people all making up the audience for the MCU and all wanting wildly different things out of it, and engaging in different levels. That's media now. There is no group of people you can make one or two changes to and suddenly pull in scores of while keeping the audience you've got. That's not how anything works. Even 'lapsed fans' fell off for so many different reasons that you couldn't even get a lot of them to agree. But you also get a lot of people who were into wrestling because it was popular, who moved on, and who aren't coming back regardless of what's presented to them. That's a reality of media too.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Oct 13, 2021 19:32:22 GMT -5
I think the pacing of stories in AEW feels absolutely glacial as it is.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2021 19:34:10 GMT -5
The casual viewer is the lapsed viewer or the one flipping through channels...I have had multiple people reach out to me on FB after posting about AEW these last two years asking if they should watch, the differences between wwe and aew, etc...Those to me are the casual fans. The fans that tuned in to Punk's debut and fell out after nothing grabbed their attention. My personal opinion is that they need to cut some time off their matches and dedicate them to vignettes. Show the cable flipping audience (yes they do still exist especially in rural areas like mine where internet data caps exist and prices are expensive) a reason to stick around and who these people are...Both in the past and now. I get that mentality and basically the gist of your argument. I’ve even had similar thoughts about the Vignette/matches thing but it’s dangerous in itself in alienating the core audience. There’s no sure-fire way to “attract the casual viewer” for wrestling anymore I think. Stars and angles and what-not but even WWE struggles with that and that’s their bread and butter. Their (AEW) best best is just to continue to put the best product they can the way that they have. In a nutshell my biggest issue (and im sure im not alone) is that it is hard to fully follow AEW unless you are actually all in....With having 3 kids and working 50 hours a week I do not find the time to watch BTE or the other shows that aren't televised so win/loss records and random pairings change dramatically within weeks. It's all a bit jarring when there are no real flashbacks to things that happen or anything to explain it. It's not nearly as often now but people would just pop in and out. I would assume the wrestling fan looking for the WWE alternative has no clue who most of these people are and why should they if you never tell us? I agree that we should not alienate the core and crazy passionate audience but there could be more effort to show people why they should care instead of just assuming everyone subscribes to the Observer. They are obviously doing fine and my opinion means less than the gum on someones shoe but this place would be boring if everyone spoke the same rhetoric.
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Post by Cyno on Oct 13, 2021 20:22:14 GMT -5
AEW is on the other extreme of WWE in that regard. Like, WWE assumes its audience is clueless and will go overboard in explaining who people are, with all the repeat vignettes and same recaps week after week.
AEW, on the other hand, assumes its audience will know who all these people are already without need for an introduction. And while you can do that with the bigger WWE names like Miro, CM Punk, Adam Cole, or Bryan Danielson and the core fanbase does know who Minoru Suzuki or Satoshi Kojima are, anyone who wasn't already big into ROH or NJPW is going to have zero clue.
Now, personally, I'd prefer a promotion assuming I'm smart vs. insulting my intelligence, but there's a happy medium they could reach instead.
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Post by HMARK Center on Oct 13, 2021 20:46:21 GMT -5
AEW is on the other extreme of WWE in that regard. Like, WWE assumes its audience is clueless and will go overboard in explaining who people are, with all the repeat vignettes and same recaps week after week. AEW, on the other hand, assumes its audience will know who all these people are already without need for an introduction. And while you can do that with the bigger WWE names like Miro, CM Punk, Adam Cole, or Bryan Danielson and the core fanbase does know who Minoru Suzuki or Satoshi Kojima are, anyone who wasn't already big into ROH or NJPW is going to have zero clue. Now, personally, I'd prefer a promotion assuming I'm smart vs. insulting my intelligence, but there's a happy medium they could reach instead. I like to imagine how AEW would handle it if, once travel and whatnot is open again, the opportunity arises to do some kind of supercard with NJPW, and we finally get Okada vs. Omega V. Like, no, the 'mainstream' audience won't really know Okada, despite him having been mentioned by AEW commentary sometimes as a top rival of Omega's in Japan. That implies that if you wanted to introduce him to the audience, you'd have vignettes or whatever hyping him up. But would that do the trick, or would it work better to have a Dynamite in a "smarky" city/venue like New York or what have you, get Kenny in the ring, then find an excuse for the lights to go out, some music to build up, and then cue the coin drop and a super dramatic entrance? The place would go absolutely ballistic, and the image you'd get across to your 'mainstream'/'casual' audience is "holy SHIT, the final boss of wrestling just walked in, and I don't even really know who he is." It's sort of how they handled Suzuki: "Kaze Ni Nare" played, the crowd reacted, and the commentators sold it like the Grim Reaper had arrived for Moxley's soul. Basically, I think, and this is just my view, that you can hook "casuals" or whatever you want to call them best by giving them a show where the crowd is going crazy and obviously having a great time.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2021 21:27:31 GMT -5
AEW is on the other extreme of WWE in that regard. Like, WWE assumes its audience is clueless and will go overboard in explaining who people are, with all the repeat vignettes and same recaps week after week. AEW, on the other hand, assumes its audience will know who all these people are already without need for an introduction. And while you can do that with the bigger WWE names like Miro, CM Punk, Adam Cole, or Bryan Danielson and the core fanbase does know who Minoru Suzuki or Satoshi Kojima are, anyone who wasn't already big into ROH or NJPW is going to have zero clue. Now, personally, I'd prefer a promotion assuming I'm smart vs. insulting my intelligence, but there's a happy medium they could reach instead. I’ve always thought of the old Stan Lee saying every comic is someone’s first comic. So there’s different ways they can tell a backstory with out going full WWE.
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Post by Terry McConkey on Oct 13, 2021 21:35:55 GMT -5
Slow down/focus on long term stories?!? Storylines in AEW move slow as hell as it is. Jericho and MJF were feuding for about half a year Hangman finally getting his title shot against Kenny Omega and winning the belt has been getting set up since the very first PPV Can't believe I'm about to say this next part, but I don't think adding a bunch of half naked women to the show is what the company needs. It's the same old song and dance from the same crowd that doomed AEW from the start. More chicken little than fact.
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Chainsaw
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Post by Chainsaw on Oct 13, 2021 22:11:29 GMT -5
Any point that this guy was trying to make about AEW right now was immediately invalidated the instant he used his column to pitch Tony hiring him to "help" his company.
This clown can f*** all the way off.
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ASYLUMHAUSEN
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Post by ASYLUMHAUSEN on Oct 13, 2021 22:47:10 GMT -5
To me…and maybe you’ll disagree, and that’s fine…the casual fan exists in a sense. Just not in the straw man way that is so often brought up.
Using AEW as an example; Casual Fan; watches Dynamite, might catch rampage (if they miss rampage they might seek out the clips of what interests them…most likely watched The First Dance though. Either as a Punk fan or Punk hater with morbid curiosity.) generally enjoys the product…might follow a couple workers they like on one or two social platforms. Has MAYBE seen a couple episodes oF BTE. Has never bought an anything off ShopAEW (or - at most - has bought 1 shirt of whoever their favorite worker in the company might be.)
And I’d be willing to bet that a LOT of people posting on this board fall into that category.
Not that there is a damn thing wrong with that. Not everyone will or can support a company with the fervor that, say, I support AEW. And that’s perfectly ok. At the end of the day? We’re all fan of this weird sport called pro wrestling.
This is NOT what people who chase the mythical casual fan consider a casual fan. That unicorn doesn’t exist…at least in the quantity they want to believe it does.
Just my two Pennies. Your results/opinions may vary. And that, again, is perfectly fine.
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