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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 28, 2021 15:40:13 GMT -5
Oh, I think he absolutely can improvise and has shown the skill before. Eddie’s on another level and so is Punk, so I feel it’s almost unfair to compare. I kind of get the gist of what you’re saying though. I have wondered if they executed this the way Jericho’s spoken they’ve executed it before: Where the guys don’t know what the other will say, simply the last word of every bit to cue them on their part or if they planned the whole thing together. Just wondering. Yeah. I wouldn’t be shocked if they established guardrails and nothing more. I think Punk and Eddie also benefit from their wrestling characters essentially being just regular people while MJF is kind of a prototypical wrestling villain. That's a good way to sum up what I was trying to say before: MJF isn't meant to feel "authentic" outside of "this guy is an authentic douchebag", while CM Punk and Eddie Kingston made their bones as heroes of the underground, so to speak, and thus had to bring some of that "realness" to what they do. MJF unabashedly plays a character, while Punk and Kingston, while certainly playing characters of their own, draw from their real lives and personalities a lot more directly, or at least make it feel like they do. Neither's necessarily a better or worse approach, just different.
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Post by Cyno on Nov 28, 2021 15:46:13 GMT -5
I think MJF getting so easily outclassed by Punk was by design. MJF is King Shit on Turd Hill, but he's never really been on the stick against anyone in Punk's class in terms of promos. So he went for his usual tactics that just didn't work on Punk in the same way they have on others. And Punk went for the throat. The result left MJF dumbfounded and struggling to think of what to do next. It's interesting seeing the usual mind games MJF usually plays get turned against him by a real master.
It will be real interesting to see how MJF responds in the coming weeks.
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Nov 28, 2021 16:17:25 GMT -5
I think MJF getting so easily outclassed by Punk was by design. MJF is King Shit on Turd Hill, but he's never really been on the stick against anyone in Punk's class in terms of promos. So he went for his usual tactics that just didn't work on Punk in the same way they have on others. And Punk went for the throat. The result left MJF dumbfounded and struggling to think of what to do next. It's interesting seeing the usual mind games MJF usually plays get turned against him by a real master. It will be real interesting to see how MJF responds in the coming weeks. We had Max shut down by Darby not playing on his terms, then Punk going for the jugular by first ignoring MJF and now just ethering him on the mic. It’s a nice way to see faces stand up to him beyond just trying to whoop his ass.
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Nov 28, 2021 16:21:32 GMT -5
Yeah. I wouldn’t be shocked if they established guardrails and nothing more. I think Punk and Eddie also benefit from their wrestling characters essentially being just regular people while MJF is kind of a prototypical wrestling villain. That's a good way to sum up what I was trying to say before: MJF isn't meant to feel "authentic" outside of "this guy is an authentic douchebag", while CM Punk and Eddie Kingston made their bones as heroes of the underground, so to speak, and thus had to bring some of that "realness" to what they do. MJF unabashedly plays a character, while Punk and Kingston, while certainly playing characters of their own, draw from their real lives and personalities a lot more directly, or at least make it feel like they do. Neither's necessarily a better or worse approach, just different. Maybe not, but the icongruity _does_ become noticeable, and for me, at least, it's a little tough to know how exactly to process it.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Nov 29, 2021 4:45:51 GMT -5
Yeah. I wouldn’t be shocked if they established guardrails and nothing more. I think Punk and Eddie also benefit from their wrestling characters essentially being just regular people while MJF is kind of a prototypical wrestling villain. That's a good way to sum up what I was trying to say before: MJF isn't meant to feel "authentic" outside of "this guy is an authentic douchebag", while CM Punk and Eddie Kingston made their bones as heroes of the underground, so to speak, and thus had to bring some of that "realness" to what they do. MJF unabashedly plays a character, while Punk and Kingston, while certainly playing characters of their own, draw from their real lives and personalities a lot more directly, or at least make it feel like they do. Neither's necessarily a better or worse approach, just different. This company is overloaded with Heroes Of The Underground. It might as well be their official name. That’s part of my issue. Between this and Cody getting so much grief, we can’t have *one* golden boy top face? And no, I still don’t count Hangman yet.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2021 8:08:48 GMT -5
That's a good way to sum up what I was trying to say before: MJF isn't meant to feel "authentic" outside of "this guy is an authentic douchebag", while CM Punk and Eddie Kingston made their bones as heroes of the underground, so to speak, and thus had to bring some of that "realness" to what they do. MJF unabashedly plays a character, while Punk and Kingston, while certainly playing characters of their own, draw from their real lives and personalities a lot more directly, or at least make it feel like they do. Neither's necessarily a better or worse approach, just different. This company is overloaded with Heroes Of The Underground. It might as well be their official name. That’s part of my issue. Between this and Cody getting so much grief, we can’t have *one* golden boy top face? And no, I still don’t count Hangman yet. Our of sincere curiosity, why not count Page? His character is Cena level earnest, he's an explicit and clear good guy. He's the closest to a purely 'good' character in wrestling that I can think of in years. In any type of character analysis, Page's character motivations (an anxious guy who was questioning himself, but was lifting himself up by his friends and overcome his demons to become the man he was supposed to be) is significantly more golden boy than Cody (whose motivations aren't clear at all, apart from series of personal disputes and pro-USA stuff). In addition to that, he doesn't have the trappings of being the corporate hero in the way Cena and Cody do.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Nov 29, 2021 8:24:03 GMT -5
This company is overloaded with Heroes Of The Underground. It might as well be their official name. That’s part of my issue. Between this and Cody getting so much grief, we can’t have *one* golden boy top face? And no, I still don’t count Hangman yet. Our of sincere curiosity, why not count Page? His character is Cena level earnest, he's an explicit and clear good guy. He's the closest to a purely 'good' character in wrestling that I can think of in years. In any type of character analysis, Page's character motivations (an anxious guy who was questioning himself, but was lifting himself up by his friends and overcome his demons to become the man he was supposed to be) is significantly more golden boy than Cody (whose motivations aren't clear at all, apart from series of personal disputes and pro-USA stuff). In addition to that, he doesn't have the trappings of being the corporate hero in the way Cena and Cody do. The thing is that often I don’t care about Cena or Cody coming off “corporate” or at least marketable in the canon because I still find them interesting and entertaining outside of that. If I found them bland or uncharismatic, then it’d be a bigger issue for me. A babyface being good-for-business in a storyline isn’t an absolute requirement for me because I do like Page, but it isn’t a massive turn-off for me either in Cody’s case as it seems to be with so many other people.
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Post by eJm on Nov 29, 2021 8:39:17 GMT -5
Let’s diverge the topic a bit since Page and Cody don’t really have much to do with the subject at hand.
Also, there’s, like, a billion page thread to Cody so there’s that.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Nov 29, 2021 11:10:22 GMT -5
Let’s diverge the topic a bit since Page and Cody don’t really have much to do with the subject at hand. Also, there’s, like, a billion page thread to Cody so there’s that. That was my fault for taking it off track, so I apologize. It was related to my annoyance on Punk and MJF both fishing for heat based on the idea of “a sellout face”.
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Post by The Ichi on Nov 29, 2021 13:40:55 GMT -5
That's a good way to sum up what I was trying to say before: MJF isn't meant to feel "authentic" outside of "this guy is an authentic douchebag", while CM Punk and Eddie Kingston made their bones as heroes of the underground, so to speak, and thus had to bring some of that "realness" to what they do. MJF unabashedly plays a character, while Punk and Kingston, while certainly playing characters of their own, draw from their real lives and personalities a lot more directly, or at least make it feel like they do. Neither's necessarily a better or worse approach, just different. This company is overloaded with Heroes Of The Underground. It might as well be their official name. That’s part of my issue. Between this and Cody getting so much grief, we can’t have *one* golden boy top face? And no, I still don’t count Hangman yet. Not counting Page is selective bias. Aside from the beer drinking (and that part of him got killed at Full Gear), he's a pure babyface right now.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Nov 29, 2021 13:44:37 GMT -5
This company is overloaded with Heroes Of The Underground. It might as well be their official name. That’s part of my issue. Between this and Cody getting so much grief, we can’t have *one* golden boy top face? And no, I still don’t count Hangman yet. Not counting Page is selective bias. Aside from the beer drinking (and that part of him got killed at Full Gear), he's a pure babyface right now. Right. CM Punk's kind of that veteran figurehead presence which is what this feud is reminding us, while Page is the newly cemented ace that overcame the bad guys AND his own self-doubt to win the big one while taking time off to be there for the birth of his first child at the same time. He's as pure a babyface as you can get in 2021.
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Post by mc74 on Nov 29, 2021 18:13:20 GMT -5
I am absolutely sold on this feud. The promo between the 2, though Punk clearly won it in my eyes, was an awesome one to witness. I'm so looking forward to seeing more from this program. This is gonna be gooooooood!
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Post by evilone on Nov 30, 2021 3:34:39 GMT -5
Punk was more natural in his delivery but that's because of years of experience in his specialty of worked shoots. Overall it was nice exchange but nothing game changing.
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Post by Glitch on Nov 30, 2021 8:26:24 GMT -5
I guess we weren't the only ones who liked it. Since Edge and Miz recreated this promo basically( along with actually mentioning it on air).
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Post by Larryhausen on Nov 30, 2021 13:33:37 GMT -5
I guess we weren't the only ones who liked it. Since Edge and Miz recreated this promo basically( along with actually mentioning it on air). They did!?!?!
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Post by "Sweet & Sour" ImSoFudginGreat on Nov 30, 2021 13:48:41 GMT -5
I’ve not read through the thread properly, so sorry if I’m repeating someone else, but I’ve seen some posts here and elsewhere saying Punk won the promo, which I think is by design. MJF is used to having everything he wants and destroying people verbally. He got none of that from Punk. It’ll be interesting if MJF fails at a backstage attack, or rallying the troops to go against Punk (maybe that can be something else on the breakdown of Wardlow/MJF).
I do think eventually MJF will step up the mic work, and the eventual match will be amazing. Looking forward to when they finally do clash.
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Post by thehottag on Nov 30, 2021 15:57:57 GMT -5
Punk was more natural in his delivery but that's because of years of experience in his specialty of worked shoots It's also because of MJF's character. He's basically playing every self-congratulatory high school jock bully you've ever seen. And when they talk to people, they always talk down to them in the most condescending way, like you're too thick to understand. That's why MJF doesn't sound sincere - because he isn't. He's mocking.
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Post by Dub H on Nov 30, 2021 16:42:55 GMT -5
Punk was more natural in his delivery but that's because of years of experience in his specialty of worked shoots It's also because of MJF's character. He's basically playing every self-congratulatory high school jock bully you've ever seen. And when they talk to people, they always talk down to them in the most condescending way, like you're too thick to understand. That's why MJF doesn't sound sincere - because he isn't. He's mocking. I feel like MJF needs a moment ,even if it is a split of second,where he drops the act and speaks sincere. That can range from full blow sycopath to a scares boy.It is up to then,but he needa that moment to contrast the jock unsincere act. This is of course not saying MJF wouldnt be amazing if that doesnt happen but it would complete the character
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Post by eJm on Nov 30, 2021 16:47:22 GMT -5
I’ve not read through the thread properly, so sorry if I’m repeating someone else, but I’ve seen some posts here and elsewhere saying Punk won the promo, which I think is by design. MJF is used to having everything he wants and destroying people verbally. He got none of that from Punk. It’ll be interesting if MJF fails at a backstage attack, or rallying the troops to go against Punk (maybe that can be something else on the breakdown of Wardlow/MJF). I do think eventually MJF will step up the mic work, and the eventual match will be amazing. Looking forward to when they finally do clash. That’s pretty much it, yeah. As I said before, besides Darby, everyone else has responded with violence from being goaded into doing it by MJF. Punk knows everything MJF says and that’s why he was disappointed. Like, this isn’t even anything to do with stuff outside AEW, he talked about it when he came back. Kingston brought it up during their feud, Punk’s been dealing with 7 years of resentment and lashing out and trying to fill a wrestling hole. He doesn’t even say MJF is wrong about any of it.
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Post by Glitch on Nov 30, 2021 17:24:13 GMT -5
I guess we weren't the only ones who liked it. Since Edge and Miz recreated this promo basically( along with actually mentioning it on air). They did!?!?! Yep. although Edge refers to AEW as simply "other companies". www.youtube.com/watch?v=3q9RTpYjblg&t=231s
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