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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 27, 2021 17:16:38 GMT -5
It’s also notable that one of Savage’s last WWF appearances was him stopping Backlund from attacking someone. Odds are that if he had stuck around, it would’ve been Savage vs. Backlund at WM 11.
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BlackoutCreature
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Post by BlackoutCreature on Nov 27, 2021 18:17:24 GMT -5
It’s also notable that one of Savage’s last WWF appearances was him stopping Backlund from attacking someone. Odds are that if he had stuck around, it would’ve been Savage vs. Backlund at WM 11. I don't know about WrestleMania XI, but I thought for sure that's a program they were building up to at some point.
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Post by buckethead on Nov 27, 2021 22:03:04 GMT -5
can you imagine the absolute clinics we would have seen if Bob had been just 10 years younger? The moment I saw it happen, I thought it would have worked better in the late 80s during Hogan's 84-88 run or maybe even as Savages opponent during his title run before Hogan comes back for the explosion of the Megapowers.
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Post by Bob Schlapowitz on Nov 27, 2021 23:07:05 GMT -5
It’s also notable that one of Savage’s last WWF appearances was him stopping Backlund from attacking someone. Odds are that if he had stuck around, it would’ve been Savage vs. Backlund at WM 11. I think that WAS Savage's last WWF appearance.
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Post by Hit Girl on Nov 27, 2021 23:10:13 GMT -5
Macho Man - "Old grey mare she ain't what she used to be....."
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Post by fortknox on Nov 27, 2021 23:16:55 GMT -5
It’s also notable that one of Savage’s last WWF appearances was him stopping Backlund from attacking someone. Odds are that if he had stuck around, it would’ve been Savage vs. Backlund at WM 11. I think that WAS Savage's last WWF appearance. It was. The next week Vince announced Savage leaving.
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4real
Wade Wilson
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Post by 4real on Nov 28, 2021 3:21:31 GMT -5
It just worked so well with Bob and his image though. Plus he had the cross face chicken wing and Savage didn’t really have a submission move like that. Also we had seen Savage as a heel before so it wasn’t exactly breaking new ground.
Would I have wanted to see a Savage v Bret feud absolutely but I think it would have worked better as a face v face feud. Wrestlemania 9 was probably the best time they could have done it or even Wrestlemania 10 if Vince wasn’t so set in his ways.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2021 6:24:33 GMT -5
In short, it's because Backlund knocked it out of the park and had the best run of his career with that character.
He still plays it today.
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Post by greyfmdan on Nov 28, 2021 14:07:42 GMT -5
Some good points raised here. I’ll also add that for me, as a young fan at the time who didn’t know much about wrestling pre-87 or so, I don’t feel that the WWF really did much to educate me about Backland’s history, his previous title run & so forth. Whereas Macho was a star that I’d grown up watching. So with Backland, I had a sense of, “Why should I think this old guy has any chance to beat Bret?” But maybe that was by design, because when he did beat Bret, it was actually sort of shocking.
I agree looking back, though, that there was more mileage to be had in keeping the title on Backland a little longer. And they should have at least made it a more competitive match when he dropped the title. I guess I understand why they did it, but in retrospect, starting off Diesel’s title run that way probably did him no favors.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Nov 28, 2021 14:45:25 GMT -5
Randy was already established as crazy in Canon, even as a babyface. Just not this kind of crazy.
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Post by THE FVNKER on Nov 28, 2021 20:00:13 GMT -5
I don't see Savage taking very well to the idea of being portrayed as "the old man" who was being left in the dust by the cool young athletes. Jealousy of Bret, Diesel or Shawn? Sure. No one played a jealous lunatic better than Savage. He would have been great in any feuds with jealousy as the driving force. But making it about age tells the audience, "Hey, this guy is actually old," and Savage would have wanted no part of that. It would have stained anything he planned to do later. With Backlund, he *was* a representation of an older era, and his age had already been played up as a novelty gimmick, so it made more sense. Although I do have to laugh: Backlund was only 44-45 during his big push in 1994 and they acted like he was eligible for the senior soup discount. Brock Lesnar is 44 now. So is Jeff Hardy. So is A.J. Styles. Lashley is 45. Sheamus is 43. Orton, Nakamura and Baszler are 41. Balor is 40. By 1994 standards, these guys are all candidates for the retirement home. Regarding the over 40 crowd, I still maintain that the whole aura of guys being over 40, and thus being too old, of no use, or unable to go is a stupid marketing tool that WWF used during the Monday Night Wars in hopes that it would made Hogan/Savage/etc look bad and discredit them. It's been so ingrained in people that the over 40 guys are no good that it was rumored in the 2010's that even Heyman said to cut everyone over 40 on TNA's roster.
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Hypnosis
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Post by Hypnosis on Nov 28, 2021 21:08:17 GMT -5
I don't see Savage taking very well to the idea of being portrayed as "the old man" who was being left in the dust by the cool young athletes. Jealousy of Bret, Diesel or Shawn? Sure. No one played a jealous lunatic better than Savage. He would have been great in any feuds with jealousy as the driving force. But making it about age tells the audience, "Hey, this guy is actually old," and Savage would have wanted no part of that. It would have stained anything he planned to do later. With Backlund, he *was* a representation of an older era, and his age had already been played up as a novelty gimmick, so it made more sense. Although I do have to laugh: Backlund was only 44-45 during his big push in 1994 and they acted like he was eligible for the senior soup discount. Brock Lesnar is 44 now. So is Jeff Hardy. So is A.J. Styles. Lashley is 45. Sheamus is 43. Orton, Nakamura and Baszler are 41. Balor is 40. By 1994 standards, these guys are all candidates for the retirement home. Regarding the over 40 crowd, I still maintain that the whole aura of guys being over 40, and thus being too old, of no use, or unable to go is a stupid marketing tool that WWF used during the Monday Night Wars in hopes that it would made Hogan/Savage/etc look bad and discredit them. It's been so ingrained in people that the over 40 guys are no good that it was rumored in the 2010's that even Heyman said to cut everyone over 40 on TNA's roster. Which would have meant TNA losing Christopher Daniels, who could and can still go in the ring.
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cjh
Hank Scorpio
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Post by cjh on Nov 28, 2021 21:35:17 GMT -5
I don't see Savage taking very well to the idea of being portrayed as "the old man" who was being left in the dust by the cool young athletes. Jealousy of Bret, Diesel or Shawn? Sure. No one played a jealous lunatic better than Savage. He would have been great in any feuds with jealousy as the driving force. But making it about age tells the audience, "Hey, this guy is actually old," and Savage would have wanted no part of that. It would have stained anything he planned to do later. With Backlund, he *was* a representation of an older era, and his age had already been played up as a novelty gimmick, so it made more sense. Although I do have to laugh: Backlund was only 44-45 during his big push in 1994 and they acted like he was eligible for the senior soup discount. Brock Lesnar is 44 now. So is Jeff Hardy. So is A.J. Styles. Lashley is 45. Sheamus is 43. Orton, Nakamura and Baszler are 41. Balor is 40. By 1994 standards, these guys are all candidates for the retirement home. Regarding the over 40 crowd, I still maintain that the whole aura of guys being over 40, and thus being too old, of no use, or unable to go is a stupid marketing tool that WWF used during the Monday Night Wars in hopes that it would made Hogan/Savage/etc look bad and discredit them. It's been so ingrained in people that the over 40 guys are no good that it was rumored in the 2010's that even Heyman said to cut everyone over 40 on TNA's roster. Heyman has confirmed publicly at least once that he did say that when he was in talks with TNA.
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Post by jason1980s on Nov 28, 2021 22:07:33 GMT -5
Heyman has confirmed publicly at least once that he did say that when he was in talks with TNA. That surprised the H.E. double hockey stick out of me. His cash cow for almost 20 years has been a guy who trusts no one yet Paul can so easily make anyone trust him. I feel like there's no way TNA can match any amount of money he makes with Brock Lesnar. I would love to know details on this. Was it during Brock's short lived "NFL" career and time away from WWE and Paul still wanted to be a part of wrestling?
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 2, 2021 15:41:56 GMT -5
When I watched Macho as a kid he never felt like “the old man” to me, partly because A) he was so intense and energetic, and B) this was his Neon Cowboy phase and it felt like he was keeping in line with the 1990s through his look and his fire during matches. It was more like a Tanahashi type thing where he was the veteran who could still hang with the next gen.
I think it had to be Backlund in that grumpy old guy role, he came off very late 70s/early 80s and hadn’t updated his act much, he was a perfect uptight square to the younger and cooler Bret. I doubt if Ric Flair had stayed he could have pulled it off, he also had the 70s style character but he also acted like a wild and horny teenager 65% of the time.
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Post by Error on Dec 2, 2021 16:00:59 GMT -5
Regarding the over 40 crowd, I still maintain that the whole aura of guys being over 40, and thus being too old, of no use, or unable to go is a stupid marketing tool that WWF used during the Monday Night Wars in hopes that it would made Hogan/Savage/etc look bad and discredit them. It's been so ingrained in people that the over 40 guys are no good that it was rumored in the 2010's that even Heyman said to cut everyone over 40 on TNA's roster. Which would have meant TNA losing Christopher Daniels, who could and can still go in the ring. I think he was going to be put in the Terry Funk role as he said he was going to keep 1 or 2 over 40 but he wanted to go real young. I also think it came out he laid out a crazy scenario he didn't think he'd get and was surprised that this was the stumbling point.
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hassanchop
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Post by hassanchop on Dec 3, 2021 3:26:00 GMT -5
What about in 2000 WWE? He would act as he does in this video:
Language warning
He takes Triple H’s comments about being too old seriously that he threatens to take Stephanie from him.
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thecrusherwi
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Post by thecrusherwi on Dec 3, 2021 9:03:51 GMT -5
Turning heel was the best thing for Bob's career, probably even better than being champion for so long. He was so out of place in WWF at the time and probably would have been out of place in WCW as well. He was like a throwback to the Gordon Solie era and Solie would soon be gone from WCW. If Bob hadn't turned heel I can't see him lasting much longer. They rarely used him on PPVs either but after the turn he got another year out of wrestling, the short manager role and has done the occasional special appearance where I truly wonder if he's blurring the lines of kayfabe or if he is legit nuts. At autograph signings he puts people in the chicken wing and stays in character almost the whole time when fans are watching so he puts on a show and I'm sure that keeps him being brought in again whereas babyface, Opie Bob Backlund I can't see being much of an attraction at shows. I have no idea how he lasted as long as he did or what their original plan was for him before the heel turn. He came back in middle 1992 and outside of his marathon Royal Rumble performance and a nothing match at WrestleMania he literally did nothing of note in those two years. I don't think he even had a feud with anyone and was seldom on TV. Like was there ever any intention of doing anything but have him beat the likes of Damien Damento and Papa Shango over and over? Also agree about blurring the lines. I remember thinking that when he was in TNA in the mid-2000s. “This crazy old man thing is just a gimmick…right?”
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Post by Milkman Norm on Dec 7, 2021 16:25:45 GMT -5
Macho was the wrong kind of crazy for the angle tbh. It worked because Backlund was perceived by the fans to boring and the boring guy snapped. Savage could never be boring.
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Post by jason1980s on Dec 7, 2021 16:59:51 GMT -5
Also agree about blurring the lines. I remember thinking that when he was in TNA in the mid-2000s. “This crazy old man thing is just a gimmick…right?” I was friends with Nikolai Volkoff for a few years before he passed. I got to meet Bob Backlund twice. I asked Nikolai a few times over the years if Bob was playing a gimmick and he told me he was but I will always truly wonder. The first time I met him he was pretty calm when the other wrestlers were around and fans, he gave me a brussel sprout. Once it was time for fan photos, he put me in the chicken wing and was totally in character. A year later it was before a convention opened to the fans and he was super quiet so I guess it is a gimmick he plays. But, again I truly wonder. From all accounts, he was one of the most straight laced guys there was. With wrestling evolving over the last 20-25 years he probably knew he wouldn't be able to sustain a long term fame if he kept to the old school gimmick. And just recently I read the 1985 Sports Illustrated with Hogan on the cover where, the article about wrestlers, mentions at the time Bob was doing work in the drywall installation business. I'm sure to his neighbors he's totally normal but he's done a really good job of blurring those kayfabe lines.
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