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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2021 11:33:34 GMT -5
How is Wardlow turn dragged when he hasnt had any momentum since...the Hager feud? Recently he has starting getting pops from the crowd but its not time yet to fully turn him face. Because they first planted the seed of Wardlow finally getting sick of MJF's shit back in the summer of 2020. They've let it simmer for a long long time now, and I'm pretty positive he's still not gonna turn until Double or Nothing at the earliest. Whether or not it's done well (and I think the buildup has been solid) doesn't change the fact that going on two years is a super long time for something as basic as a face turn. I get that, but on-screen it was still really abrupt. It wasn't too bad in his case because Danielson back in his indie days was pretty much always a dick regardless of alignment, and "I wanted to fight Omega again, now I gotta settle for you" is good enough all things considered, but he still went from 0 to "I'm gonna' beat the shit out of all your friends" really quickly. I actually really liked the Shida/Serena series. I was thinking more along the lines of FTR/Lucha Bros, or how two of the biggest matches on the All Out card (MJF/Jericho and Omega/Christian) were reruns of matches that had literally happened on free TV two or three weeks before the PPV. If WWE had done their WrestleMania main event on Raw three weeks before Mania, they would deservedly get dragged for it. I know with All Out that there were extenuating circumstances, and the ME was more about the post-match debuts than anything else. Hence my earlier comment about AEW having the benefit of the doubt to still execute this stuff well. But I can't criticize one company for doing something and not criticize another for doing the same - I ain't that much of a fanboy, lol.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Dec 27, 2021 11:35:15 GMT -5
How is Wardlow turn dragged when he hasnt had any momentum since...the Hager feud? Recently he has starting getting pops from the crowd but its not time yet to fully turn him face. Because they first planted the seed of Wardlow finally getting sick of MJF's shit back in the summer of 2020. They've let it simmer for a long long time now, and I'm pretty positive he's still not gonna turn until Double or Nothing at the earliest. Whether or not it's done well (and I think it has been, all things considered) doesn't change the fact that going on two years is a super long time for something as basic as a face turn. I get that, but on-screen it was still really abrupt. It wasn't too bad in his case because Danielson back in his indie days was pretty much always a dick regardless of alignment, and "I wanted to fight Omega again, now I gotta settle for you" is good enough all things considered, but he still went 0 to "I'm gonna' beat the shit out of all your friends" really quickly. I actually really liked the Shida/Serena series. I was thinking more along the lines of FTR/Lucha Bros, or how two of the biggest matches on the All Out card (MJF/Jericho and Omega/Christian) were reruns of matches that had literally happened on free TV two or three weeks before the PPV. If WWE had done their WrestleMania main event on Raw three weeks before Mania, they would deservedly get dragged for it. I know with All Out that there were extenuating circumstances, and the ME was more about the post-match debuts than anything else. Hence my earlier comment about AEW having the benefit of the doubt to still execute this stuff well. But I can't criticize one company for doing something and not criticize another for doing the same - I ain't that much of a fanboy, lol. I think the Wardlow critique is a fair one. It felt like they were really heating him up, then they kind of threw it in the background and now it's clear they're setting it up where it's going to be Wardlow vs. Spears instead of Wardlow vs. MJF. I think the arrival of guys like Punk and Danielson led to some abrupt switch-up of things. Mostly fine at the end of the day, but there's been some abrupt storytelling at times.
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Post by Hypnosis on Dec 27, 2021 12:00:07 GMT -5
Positives:
The opening matches for Dynamite are great for hyping the crowds Hangman's chemistry with Dark Order, and being a likeable face champion in general The Forbidden Door has led to some fun unpredictability as to who can possibly show up next Unique cast of characters and wrestling styles BTE gives me plenty of laughs
Negatives:
Cody's character evolvement and storylines have been dragging at a snail's pace compared to everyone else Some feuds go on too long (Darby Allin & Sting vs. Team Taz, Best Friends vs. HFO) There still needs to be more than one women's match on Dynamite consistently Some wrestlers who used to be on TV in 2019 and 2020 have mainly been on Dark and Elevation this year, and I'd like to see them back on more often (Joey Janela, Sonny Kiss, Emi Sakura, Abadon, etc.)
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Post by Big BosskMan on Dec 27, 2021 12:11:36 GMT -5
I'll clarify my earlier comment around wrestlers appearing and then disappearing.
I do not watch Dark, Dark: Elevation or any of their YouTube content.
If people are rotating between these, I'm unaware of it. As a consumer of Dynamite and Rampage only, my frame of reference is what makes air on TV.
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Post by Von Wagner's Brownies on Dec 27, 2021 12:17:19 GMT -5
My only problem is the mood lighting in the crowd, you're not WWE, you don't need special crowd lighting for your shows.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2021 12:32:56 GMT -5
Positives: Some wrestlers who used to be on TV in 2019 and 2020 have mainly been on Dark and Elevation this year, and I'd like to see them back on more often (Joey Janela, Sonny Kiss, Emi Sakura, Abadon, etc.) Since my original response was kind of overly positive, I second this, and will dovetail it into my biggest criticism of AEW. As the company has grown and acquired the resources and ability to sign guys like Undisputed Era, CM Punk, Danielson, etc...it has really pushed a lot of their younger and less established guys down the card. And, while the fact that AEW only has three hours of television each week is a blessing because it allows for tight and consistent writing without glaring plotholes and inconsistencies for the most part, it's also a curse because so many promising talents only feature on the YouTube shows now. Sonny Kiss is the biggest example for me...he's a potentially huge crossover star for the company, and any time he has been placed in a prominent televised match he has delivered, but he's become lost in the shuffle. The feud with Janela was actually very good and has produced some stellar matches, but they both happened on the YouTube show that is seen by about half the audience of Dynamite. I think AEW could stand to cycle some of the lower midcard guys onto TV more than they do, just to keep them in the public eye a little more. AEW is a net positive in nearly every way, but this is definitely the most prominent of its "growing pains" to me.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Dec 27, 2021 12:38:22 GMT -5
Dynamite is my favorite wrestling show going and I think AEW tends to have the easiest show to watch.
There are issues of course mostly with timing of matches at times and some production issues but I appreciate the desire to give everybody a chance to shine
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 47,864
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Post by Dub H on Dec 27, 2021 12:43:39 GMT -5
I do feel like they lost some of the feel they had from the start , it clearly changed a lot,a few things not for the better and a few things not their fault
But it is still my favourite wrestling company. They still have a lot of unique philosofies on wrestling and seem to wish for the best of wrestling itself. And they of course for most part know how to use talent better than anyone else and are willing to try new stuff.
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Post by CeilingFan on Dec 27, 2021 12:44:42 GMT -5
Positives: The opening matches for Dynamite are great for hyping the crowds Hangman's chemistry with Dark Order, and being a likeable face champion in general The Forbidden Door has led to some fun unpredictability as to who can possibly show up next Unique cast of characters and wrestling styles BTE gives me plenty of laughs Negatives: Cody's character evolvement and storylines have been dragging at a snail's pace compared to everyone else Some feuds go on too long (Darby Allin & Sting vs. Team Taz, Best Friends vs. HFO) There still needs to be more than one women's match on Dynamite consistently Some wrestlers who used to be on TV in 2019 and 2020 have mainly been on Dark and Elevation this year, and I'd like to see them back on more often (Joey Janela, Sonny Kiss, Emi Sakura, Abadon, etc.) A lot of the talent that rarely appear on Dynamite are able to wrestle at independent dates, thanks to the Forbidden Door being burned down.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Dec 27, 2021 12:49:29 GMT -5
Positives: Some wrestlers who used to be on TV in 2019 and 2020 have mainly been on Dark and Elevation this year, and I'd like to see them back on more often (Joey Janela, Sonny Kiss, Emi Sakura, Abadon, etc.) Since my original response was kind of overly positive, I second this, and will dovetail it into my biggest criticism of AEW. As the company has grown and acquired the resources and ability to sign guys like Undisputed Era, CM Punk, Danielson, etc...it has really pushed a lot of their younger and less established guys down the card. And, while the fact that AEW only has three hours of television each week is a blessing because it allows for tight and consistent writing without glaring plotholes and inconsistencies for the most part, it's also a curse because so many promising talents only feature on the YouTube shows now. Sonny Kiss is the biggest example for me...he's a potentially huge crossover star for the company, and any time he has been placed in a prominent televised match he has delivered, but he's become lost in the shuffle. The feud with Janela was actually very good and has produced some stellar matches, but they both happened on the YouTube show that is seen by about half the audience of Dynamite. I think AEW could stand to cycle some of the lower midcard guys onto TV more than they do, just to keep them in the public eye a little more. AEW is a net positive in nearly every way, but this is definitely the most prominent of its "growing pains" to me. Right. They could have found a way to get a Janela/Kiss match on a Rampage, IMO. Even the big street fight blowoff is on Dark Elevation. Seems like a missed opportunity to me.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Dec 27, 2021 13:20:47 GMT -5
Mostly a very good TV product that I still have a lot of issues with, a lot of them stemming from its incredibly slow pacing (just going to say it, no, I don't think any aspect of the Hangman payoff was remotely worth how long it took to get it over with and still think it should've just happened at Double or Nothing), largely uninteresting storylines, and a gigantic chunk of the roster I don't remotely care about.
More than anything I think AEW shows the benefits of knowing how to pace a show because really I think if you broke it down there's probably a huge proportion of stuff in AEW I'm completely apathetic toward or that I think they consistently do poorly, but the shows are usually very good just because they're fun and breezy sits.
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Post by sunnytaker on Dec 27, 2021 13:54:13 GMT -5
i enjoy the flexibility at the top of the card. there are so many people that can step into a main event and feel like they should be there (omega, danielson, punk, cole, mjf, hangman, miro, cody, andrade, black, pac, jericho, moxley and i'm sure i've forgotten some) that you can give two or three of them extended breaks at the same time and the main event scene goes along just fine.
midcard people having their own characters and storylines developed.
forbidden door use is great and it helps they're not overusing it so each time they do means that much more when it happens.
women are slowly moving beyond "britt and everyone else" though they could still stand to add a non-squash second match to dynamite at least once a month. still the weakest part of the show IMO.
no immmediate hotshotting of ex-wwe guys into the main event and using the legends in getting eyes on the mid-card people rather than taking on the top guys (well except for those FTR matches).
using factions to get more people tv time even if they don;t have matches. and gives fresh matchups for feuds. sure moxley did the "beat everyone else in the inner circle before getting a shot at jericho" and danielson did the bit with the dark order. but you get pinnacle vs IC with matches involving various combinations of both sides. HFO vs best friends, elite vs IC etc.
they do need a trios title as much as i don;t want them going too crazy with 5 titles already and (counting tbs champ even if they don;t have a champ yet) only 3 hours of tv to devote to feuds. which reminds me. i like the 4 big PPVs idea because they can slot in filler title matches between PPVs for short programs between people without being locked into X must face Y next month the week after the last ppv passes. as well as letting feuds breath without having to do rematches. which ties into how seldom you see rematches between people unless they have a serious feud going and generally avoiding the "tag champs and other champ vs their challengers" 6 person tag matches trope and a surprising lack of "can they coexist" tag matches.
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Post by sunnytaker on Dec 27, 2021 13:57:02 GMT -5
Overall they're pretty good. and I do think it actively hurts the product, because it makes being a heel harder... it took FTR a pretty long time to get into their groove because of it since almost all of their act didn't work in AEW because it was all dependent on the bending of the rules... which again is kinda pointless if the rules don't matter... and like trying to hype a no holds barred match or something seems kinda silly when the refs just let shit go anyway. i acyually kinda chuckled that a big part of their early heeling was that they actually wanted aew to enforce the rules in tag matches (they would still cheat anyway but "they weren;t holding the tag rope when they made the tag!" protesting among other things was amusing)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2021 14:02:57 GMT -5
They're cool.
I'm still not liking their mindset towards minorities in the main event spot (black wrestlers like we said in the other thread), I don't like what's up with their women's division, I don't like Cody's whole thing and I don't like some other stuff they do but overall they're cool. They just need to be much better for me to call them gods or anything like that. I've seen other companies do great in the areas they're failing in. They need to adapt and be what they were destined to be.
I definitely don't like them as much as I did during that first year though. The "new kid on the block" feel's rubbed off on me and now I'm seeing an established student who I know can do better if he puts his mind to it.
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Post by Cyno on Dec 27, 2021 21:30:20 GMT -5
Sonny Kiss is one of the better kept secrets on the roster and I'd love to see him used more, even if it isn't in a major role. Seems like he's beloved backstage, too, and it's not like AEW has a problem with featuring wrestlers from the LGBTQ+ community. So I dunno why he isn't on Dynamite or Rampage more.
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kidkamikaze10
Dennis Stamp
Trying to think of a new avatar
Posts: 4,275
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Post by kidkamikaze10 on Dec 27, 2021 21:41:17 GMT -5
They are the only reason why I still watch wrestling on TV.
They are great, but they can do better. And everyone knows where the flaws are now.
Women's Division, lack of diversity in the main event, production issues.
Codyverse too, but that's a bit more subjective than the three above.
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Zone Was Wrong
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Currently living off the high that AEW brings every Wednesday and Friday
Posts: 16,173
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Post by Zone Was Wrong on Dec 28, 2021 0:22:43 GMT -5
I legit was on the cusp of falling out of love with wrestling at one point. Was finding it hard to keep up with NJPW, Impact wasn't yet to where it is today, ROH had gotten stale, WWE continued to piss me off or bore the hell out of me. AEW brought my love back for wrestling and I love the company dearly.
Yeah, I have issues with boring ass Cody, women not getting the same overly dramatic storylines the men get, and things like dragging out storylines way too long. But I can't help but love Danielson kicking people's heads off, CM Punk returning to wrestling and obviously loving where he's working, and seeing a story like Page's pay off in a big way.
They have flaws but they entertain me with every show and usually pay off story's in a perfect way.
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J. Hova
Don Corleone
Emotionally exhausted and morally bankrupt
Posts: 1,998
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Post by J. Hova on Dec 28, 2021 0:47:27 GMT -5
They are worlds better since Tony took the book. The past year has been night and day compared to the first two years. I don't know if I want to give Tony all the credit quite yet or give partial credit to the influx of world class talent they've had. I'll still never get the Bucks and their deal. I'm still cautiously optimistic that AEW will force the WWE to get their collective heads our of their ass and we can have a war redux, but that is fading quickly.
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Perd
Patti Mayonnaise
Leslie needs to butt out for fear of receiving The Bunghole Buster
Posts: 31,988
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Post by Perd on Dec 28, 2021 1:11:10 GMT -5
In a nutshell, it’s nice to have an easily accessible wrestling show that isn’t strictly catered to the whims of one cranky old man.
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Post by CeilingFan on Dec 28, 2021 9:27:23 GMT -5
I just hope the Forbidden Door stays open for many years to come.
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