Jonathan Michaels
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Archduke of Levity
Here since TNA was still kinda okay
Posts: 18,522
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Post by Jonathan Michaels on Jan 11, 2022 12:44:31 GMT -5
The "pipe bomb" sucked massive amounts of ass and never needed to happen. Sadly most people's idea of a "good promo" these days is just going off script and shooting on everyone for behind the scenes stuff. Not me. Give me Regal's promo where he defended Eugene's honor over this worked shoot garbage any day. I watch that promo every few months, top notch stuff.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Jan 11, 2022 12:45:46 GMT -5
I want to get excited for highly technical chain wrestling but I just can't.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2022 12:51:24 GMT -5
I want to get excited for highly technical chain wrestling but I just can't. But what if they added flips? That said. Over the top wrestlers and wacky gimmicks are ten times more interesting and more fun to watch than "good at wrestling" guys. These guys grew up watching Bret, Kurt, or Daneilson and want to be the next technical wizard. They forget Bret was the coolest motherf***er to ever live, and both Angle and Brian are wacky ass goofballs.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
HaHa U FaLL 4 LaVa TriK
Posts: 46,838
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Jan 11, 2022 12:51:43 GMT -5
Most finishers get kicked out of much too often. It's no longer a "Finisher" if it only finishes a match like 10% of the time. I don't care if you are a jobber, your finisher should never be below 40% in effectiveness. If finishers were protected like that, then the hopefully now rare kickout-fest matches would actually have tension. When there's like 4 kickouts during a random 20 minute TV match between Ziggler and Angel Garza, like what's the f'ing point? Ya'll are just killing the "aura" of the finisher. Another "Finisher" opinion : Finishers shouldn't have to be "Instant Kill Moves that can hit from anywhere at any time". They're the move you use when the opponent doesn't have any strength left to fight it with.
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Push R Truth
Patti Mayonnaise
Unique and Special Snowflake, and a pants-less heathen.
Perpetually Constipated
Posts: 39,372
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Post by Push R Truth on Jan 11, 2022 12:54:01 GMT -5
Most finishers get kicked out of much too often. It's no longer a "Finisher" if it only finishes a match like 10% of the time. I don't care if you are a jobber, your finisher should never be below 40% in effectiveness. If finishers were protected like that, then the hopefully now rare kickout-fest matches would actually have tension. When there's like 4 kickouts during a random 20 minute TV match between Ziggler and Angel Garza, like what's the f'ing point? Ya'll are just killing the "aura" of the finisher. Another "Finisher" opinion : Finishers shouldn't have to be "Instant Kill Moves that can hit from anywhere at any time". They're the move you use when the opponent doesn't have any strength left to fight it with. Hell yes. For as cool an RKO/Superkick outta nowhere can be... there's something about a wrestler getting a body part worked over and then the slow finisher that's focused on that damage ends it.
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Post by sportatorium on Jan 11, 2022 13:02:00 GMT -5
That faces & heels should still stick to their orthodoxy. Faces should always win a fair fight or die trying. Heels should always show their ass and never look cool. It isn't that way anymore & I know it, but it still kinda drives me nuts.
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Post by The Creepo Man on Jan 11, 2022 14:38:06 GMT -5
Everything Paul Bearer and Sunny did kinda sucked. Paul Bearer was having “Sunny Days” backstage? “OHHHH, YES! YES!”
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Jan 11, 2022 14:40:57 GMT -5
I want to get excited for highly technical chain wrestling but I just can't. I've certainly seen contexts it's worked for me but like, that Bryan / Gulak match was one of the most boring f***ing things I've ever seen. Bryan winning the title at wm30 wasn't that great. He'd already proven he was the best, had won the world title but had been screwed out of it by the authority. There was nothing to stop that happening again, the authority should have been gone either as a stipulation attached to the match or on raw the next night. Instead he continues the fued by facing Kane. The win should have been a fresh start but instead he was just back to where they started. They did bring that up - the next night the Authority put Bryan in an impossible to win situation and he was bailed out by the Shield, which then served to distract Triple H from addressing Bryan going forward.
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BRV
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants him some Taco Flavored Kisses.
Posts: 17,357
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Post by BRV on Jan 11, 2022 15:06:28 GMT -5
The "pipe bomb" sucked massive amounts of ass and never needed to happen. Sadly most people's idea of a "good promo" these days is just going off script and shooting on everyone for behind the scenes stuff. Not me. Give me Regal's promo where he defended Eugene's honor over this worked shoot garbage any day. Count me among the voices that can't stand "reality" not just creeping into professional wrestling, but jamming its whole foot into the doorway and forcing it open. In no other form of entertainment do we have to ever contend with a character saying, "All that other stuff is fake, but THIS IS REAL." "The Wire" was arguably the most realistic crime show on television, but at no point would they ever contemplate having Omar say something like, "This isn't Omar talking to Stringer, this is Michael K. Williams talking to Idris Elba, and I'm going to kick your ass for real!" It's just so hackneyed and corny and somehow even phonier than the scripted programming we'd grown accustomed to for the past 50 or so years of modern pro wrestling as sports entertainment.
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Chiral
Salacious Crumb
Posts: 76,326
Member is Online
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Post by Chiral on Jan 11, 2022 15:44:27 GMT -5
Match card graphics and exciting show theme songs are important for event hype and are nearly a lost art nowadays.
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Post by saneiac on Jan 11, 2022 15:52:32 GMT -5
The Orange Cassidy gimmick sucks. People in this thread complaining about worked shoot promos taking you out of the show? How about a guy standing with his hands in his pockets and delivering kicks that look like he's trying to nudge the dog to move over a little, and the opponent has to sell it like it's painful. I don't get it. I'm OK with wrestling voodoo priests and evil wrestling tax collectors, but Orange Cassidy I just find stupid.
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Post by cassonova on Jan 11, 2022 15:55:40 GMT -5
Selling is important. Wrestling is combat, you attempt to damage your opponent to keep their shoulders to the mat or submit. It especially drives me crazy when someone has an "injured" leg, but can kip up or dive off the ropes without pain.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2022 15:56:00 GMT -5
Wrestling in the US today is such a niche audience compared to the boom periods that online wars over who is or isn't "a draw" or how WWE and AEW are doing against each other in the ratings is just fighting over table scraps. Roman Reigns and Kenny Omega combined have less star power and mainstream recognition than Hacksaw Jim Duggan in the '80s. This is sad and absolutely right...wow you nailed it.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Jan 11, 2022 16:12:33 GMT -5
The Orange Cassidy gimmick sucks. People in this thread complaining about worked shoot promos taking you out of the show? How about a guy standing with his hands in his pockets and delivering kicks that look like he's trying to nudge the dog to move over a little, and the opponent has to sell it like it's painful. I don't get it. I'm OK with wrestling voodoo priests and evil wrestling tax collectors, but Orange Cassidy I just find stupid. ... Who's ever sold the OC kicks like they're painful? People usually just stare at him.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2022 16:17:10 GMT -5
I have a few that I don't think are popular, or at the very least aren't the general consensus.
I can't stand Riddle...his mannerisms and whole "lovable stoner" schtick irritates the hell out of me, and I don't think his matches are entertaining enough to make up for it.
Brock Lesnar is far and away my least favorite wrestler of all time. I think post-2014 Brock, in particular, is the least interesting, most paint by numbers wrestler there's ever been, and his stints as absentee champion usually coincide with me completely checking out on WWE. Notwithstanding outside of the ring stuff, I think he's the single most detrimental figure in the history of the professional wrestling business.
Even without getting into the circumstances surrounding his and his family's deaths, I always thought Chris Benoit was a giant bore who got pushed higher than he deserved.
I thought Jinder Mahal was an excellent and enjoyable heel champion, and his reign tanking as spectacularly as it did was more of a self-fulfilling prophecy of people expecting it to suck and not giving it a chance, than it was that it actually sucked.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2022 16:19:01 GMT -5
The Orange Cassidy gimmick sucks. People in this thread complaining about worked shoot promos taking you out of the show? How about a guy standing with his hands in his pockets and delivering kicks that look like he's trying to nudge the dog to move over a little, and the opponent has to sell it like it's painful. I don't get it. I'm OK with wrestling voodoo priests and evil wrestling tax collectors, but Orange Cassidy I just find stupid. No disrespect intended but have you actually watched an Orange Cassidy match? His opponents never sell for the slow-mo shtick with anything beyond "why is this idiot doing this?" The crowd sells it like death, but they're clearly having a laugh. It's not presented seriously at all.
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Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
Posts: 38,434
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Post by Fade on Jan 11, 2022 16:20:50 GMT -5
I want to get excited for highly technical chain wrestling but I just can't. I’m similar but did you enjoy Danielson vs Suzuki? Mine I guess would be i roll my eyes whenever “the athletes are so much better today than they were before” is touted as a modern perk of the modern day roster. That’s icing. That’s an appeal to wrestling but characters, characters, characters should take precedent. I see it brought up most often about WWE but same would go for any wrassling imo.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Jan 11, 2022 16:28:26 GMT -5
I want to get excited for highly technical chain wrestling but I just can't. I’m similar but did you enjoy Danielson vs Suzuki? Mine I guess would be i roll my eyes whenever “the athletes are so much better today than they were before” is touted as a modern perk of the modern day roster. That’s icing. That’s an appeal to wrestling but characters, characters, characters should take precedent. I see it brought up most often about WWE but same would go for any wrassling imo. I did but I would say I'm very able to enjoy high quality strike exchanges. I just usually tune out when there's a lot of grappling and holds and limb work.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2022 16:29:27 GMT -5
Two quick spicy takes and one I really care about:
1) Edge is terrible. Absolutely ass. He can't pick a character - is he a shitbag opportunist or is he legit a CRAZY DANGEROUS NUTJOB? The answer is, whatever he needs to be that month. His matches are terrible. He would be in the main event scene and not move for months at a time, grinding stories to an absolute halt.
2) Ruthless Aggression Era nostalgia is proof that the wrestling you liked when you were a certain age will always be thought of fondly. That period is absolute muck, tons and tons of garbage. John Cena spent more of his career being awful than being good and sitting through it as a fan stunk. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills watching people change their minds on this era.
The only opinion I have that really matters:
The central issue with WWE is that their universe has no moral consistency. In AEW, when MJF acts like a huge piece of garbage everyone calls him a huge piece of garbage. Same with the Bucks. Same with Omega. Yeah, great wrestlers sure, but no one is afraid to say they're awful people. In WWE the worst actions get excused by people "making an impact" or people just deciding because they're "legends" they get to be as awful as they want. It sucks. It has a major effect on the show. There should be things on the show that happen that make everyone hate people, that drive people away. Sometimes they get close but they don't.
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Post by Ando9001 on Jan 11, 2022 16:32:05 GMT -5
The Orange Cassidy gimmick sucks. People in this thread complaining about worked shoot promos taking you out of the show? How about a guy standing with his hands in his pockets and delivering kicks that look like he's trying to nudge the dog to move over a little, and the opponent has to sell it like it's painful. I don't get it. I'm OK with wrestling voodoo priests and evil wrestling tax collectors, but Orange Cassidy I just find stupid. For me the only way his character has worked is if he plays mind games. His match with Pac i thought was great because it seemed like he really wanted to piss Pac off and make mistakes. Him having a chance to win a ladder match but not setting it to stand upright or doing his kicks against Pac in a World title match only to get kicked in the balls just makes him look like an idiot.
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