mistery
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Post by mistery on Jan 19, 2022 15:23:20 GMT -5
Why is Asuka an option? She’s too decorated to really “deserve more”. She’s beaten everyone like twice. Heck, I’d question putting Naomi and Carmella here, they’re very successful WWE acts to me by now. Bianca is new to the top of the women’s card and I wouldn’t brand her a failure by any means so far. Maybe I personally could argue for Liv Morgan and Dana Brooke ATM. Ripley’s dealt with inconsistent booking, but I wouldn’t brand her or Baszler dead in the water. Asuka is on the list because she's only used as a stopgap champion basically. All of her accolades are overshadowed almost immediately. She's never actually truly been the centerpiece of the division unlike Charlotte, Bayley, Sasha, Becky, or Bianca. It also doesn't help that over the past year, her booking has been really, really, really rough. From having all of her offense completely no sold and immediately squashed by Alexa (almost twice), and having to act completely terrified, to getting completely clowned on by Charlotte, Lacey, and Rhea all the way until Wrestlemania, yeah.
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Post by EZ: Brainy Bae on Jan 19, 2022 15:32:07 GMT -5
I'm surprised Naomi hasn't been more prominent. She won the SD title twice yes, once at Wrestlemania, but neither of those reigns were with her as the focus. Solid in the ring and on the mic, always over with fans and has a unique look. The most personal feud she's had was with Mandy Rose where, again despite not being a big focus, she did very well in and showed good fire. She's still young at 34 too. Wonder if her injury in the first reign soured them but they'll overlook that for talents they want. Not that she should lean on them but she's obviously close to the Usos/Reigns too. Very weird because she should be a bigger name.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Jan 19, 2022 15:41:03 GMT -5
Why is Asuka an option? She’s too decorated to really “deserve more”. She’s beaten everyone like twice. Heck, I’d question putting Naomi and Carmella here, they’re very successful WWE acts to me by now. Bianca is new to the top of the women’s card and I wouldn’t brand her a failure by any means so far. Maybe I personally could argue for Liv Morgan and Dana Brooke ATM. Ripley’s dealt with inconsistent booking, but I wouldn’t brand her or Baszler dead in the water. Asuka is on the list because she's only used as a stopgap champion basically. All of her accolades are overshadowed almost immediately. She's never actually truly been the centerpiece of the division unlike Charlotte, Bayley, Sasha, Becky, or Bianca. It also doesn't help that over the past year, her booking has been really, really, really rough. From having all of her offense completely no sold and immediately squashed by Alexa (almost twice), and having to act completely terrified, to getting completely clowned on by Charlotte, Lacey, and Rhea all the way until Wrestlemania, yeah. Asuka doesn’t need to be the focal point of the division. She already kicked everyone’s ass and won a butt load of titles. She’s had an amazing WWE career even while being booked below some other women. She’s done it *all*, basically everything bar close a WrestleMania night, and there’s no shame in never getting to do that. How is she not going into the HOF unless she goes dummy mode on social media or pulls some embarrassing IRL stuff?
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Post by sportatorium on Jan 19, 2022 16:10:36 GMT -5
I voted Baszler. I realize some felt her NXT reign was too long & one sided, but shes a legit badass & has a presence to her that few on the entire roster have. The missteps with her booking from biting Becky Lynch to running through the entire Elimination Chamber just to lose at Mania & then watch Becky hand the belt over, not to mention all the foolishness since.
Babyface Bianca Belair chasing down badass heel Shayna Baszler should be an epic feud.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jan 19, 2022 19:18:05 GMT -5
I mean pretty much. I'd even argue that even the people that are being pushed "well" deserve better... Just going to reiterate this. <_< Asuka tends to be dominant but she's also almost always treated like an afterthought even with almost a year long title reign for like 4 months the main story and what they clearly were banking on being the mania main event was Charlotte vs Lacey Evans. The time before that the main story was Sasha and Bayley are better than the entire women's division... Alexa whose usually pushed strongly was last seen with Charlotte tearing down her entire gimmick figuratively and then literally.... Charlotte and Becky's feuds almost do nothing for them or anyone else cause its they call their opponents losers that aren't good enough to beat them and then are proven correct. So they beat chumps we shouldn't care about... so why should we care about them?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2022 19:32:51 GMT -5
I mean pretty much. I'd even argue that even the people that are being pushed "well" deserve better... Just going to reiterate this. <_< Asuka tends to be dominant but she's also almost always treated like an afterthought even with almost a year long title reign for like 4 months the main story and what they clearly were banking on being the mania main event was Charlotte vs Lacey Evans. The time before that the main story was Sasha and Bayley are better than the entire women's division... Alexa whose usually pushed strongly was last seen with Charlotte tearing down her entire gimmick figuratively and then literally.... Charlotte and Becky's feuds almost do nothing for them or anyone else cause its they call their opponents losers that aren't good enough to beat them and then are proven correct. So they beat chumps we shouldn't care about... so why should we care about them? And Becky just did it again with Liv She constantly told her she was not good enough she did not belong and would lose...and Becky was right and has now moved on while Liv is taking the pinfalls further validating Becky's view of Liv. Perception is reality sadly.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 20, 2022 7:36:17 GMT -5
I mean pretty much. I'd even argue that even the people that are being pushed "well" deserve better... Just going to reiterate this. <_< Asuka tends to be dominant but she's also almost always treated like an afterthought even with almost a year long title reign for like 4 months the main story and what they clearly were banking on being the mania main event was Charlotte vs Lacey Evans. The time before that the main story was Sasha and Bayley are better than the entire women's division... Alexa whose usually pushed strongly was last seen with Charlotte tearing down her entire gimmick figuratively and then literally.... Charlotte and Becky's feuds almost do nothing for them or anyone else cause its they call their opponents losers that aren't good enough to beat them and then are proven correct. So they beat chumps we shouldn't care about... so why should we care about them? Reading about Asuka’s title reigns makes me think a bit of Bret Hart: Vince would always end up defaulting the title back to Bret because he was reliable, could draw, and was just an overall fantastic talent, but very rarely did it feel like Vince was trying to *keep* the title on Hart, instead opting to try to get Diesel or Michaels or whomever over as his next big star while Bret would get shuffled into some midcard feud or another, thus hurting perceptions of his time as champ. Asuka has a similarly decorated title history, but there’s that nagging feeling of “she’s never going to fully be on top, once the stage is big enough she’ll lose to one of the Horsewomen”, but what makes it worse is that even when she is champion they don’t book her in really worthwhile, fleshed out feuds like Bret at least got with Owen in ‘94.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Jan 20, 2022 7:53:28 GMT -5
Just going to reiterate this. <_< Asuka tends to be dominant but she's also almost always treated like an afterthought even with almost a year long title reign for like 4 months the main story and what they clearly were banking on being the mania main event was Charlotte vs Lacey Evans. The time before that the main story was Sasha and Bayley are better than the entire women's division... Alexa whose usually pushed strongly was last seen with Charlotte tearing down her entire gimmick figuratively and then literally.... Charlotte and Becky's feuds almost do nothing for them or anyone else cause its they call their opponents losers that aren't good enough to beat them and then are proven correct. So they beat chumps we shouldn't care about... so why should we care about them? Reading about Asuka’s title reigns makes me think a bit of Bret Hart: Vince would always end up defaulting the title back to Bret because he was reliable, could draw, and was just an overall fantastic talent, but very rarely did it feel like Vince was trying to *keep* the title on Hart, instead opting to try to get Diesel or Michaels or whomever over as his next big star while Bret would get shuffled into some midcard feud or another, thus hurting perceptions of his time as champ. Asuka has a similarly decorated title history, but there’s that nagging feeling of “she’s never going to fully be on top, once the stage is big enough she’ll lose to one of the Horsewomen”, but what makes it worse is that even when she is champion they don’t book her in really worthwhile, fleshed out feuds like Bret at least got with Owen in ‘94. I still don’t think that’s bad enough booking for me as an Asuka fan to talk about her as if she’s treated like the Brooklyn Brawler or something. The discourse around her comes off to me unusually pessimistic for someone with those sorts of accolades, and I disagree with that personally. I can point to a couple of shows where I’d have depicted her stronger, but I don’t think she’s unique in the excessive way that modern day WWE often undercuts babyfaces for cheap heat.
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jan 20, 2022 12:15:16 GMT -5
I mean pretty much. I'd even argue that even the people that are being pushed "well" deserve better... Just going to reiterate this. <_< Asuka tends to be dominant but she's also almost always treated like an afterthought even with almost a year long title reign for like 4 months the main story and what they clearly were banking on being the mania main event was Charlotte vs Lacey Evans. The time before that the main story was Sasha and Bayley are better than the entire women's division... Alexa whose usually pushed strongly was last seen with Charlotte tearing down her entire gimmick figuratively and then literally.... Charlotte and Becky's feuds almost do nothing for them or anyone else cause its they call their opponents losers that aren't good enough to beat them and then are proven correct. So they beat chumps we shouldn't care about... so why should we care about them? To summarize: The Horesewomen, for all their talent have done irreparable damage to the division.
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asuka007
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Post by asuka007 on Jan 20, 2022 12:20:06 GMT -5
At this point, pretty much any woman who isn’t a HW or Bianca.
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Post by Hypnosis on Jan 20, 2022 12:22:57 GMT -5
Just going to reiterate this. <_< Asuka tends to be dominant but she's also almost always treated like an afterthought even with almost a year long title reign for like 4 months the main story and what they clearly were banking on being the mania main event was Charlotte vs Lacey Evans. The time before that the main story was Sasha and Bayley are better than the entire women's division... Alexa whose usually pushed strongly was last seen with Charlotte tearing down her entire gimmick figuratively and then literally.... Charlotte and Becky's feuds almost do nothing for them or anyone else cause its they call their opponents losers that aren't good enough to beat them and then are proven correct. So they beat chumps we shouldn't care about... so why should we care about them? To summarize: The Horesewomen, for all their talent have done irreparable damage to the division. That's what happens when Vince refuses to build more women to eventually replace the 4HW in the future, while the 4HW themselves move to gatekeeper/mentor roles.
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asuka007
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Post by asuka007 on Jan 20, 2022 12:34:00 GMT -5
I’d say even amongst the HW there’s a clear divide.
Sasha and Bayley are booked strong, but not NEARLY to the level of Charlotte and (post 2018) Becky.
Like you can cut that Sasha and Bayley MIGHT lose a match on many nights and they lose quite a lot for top stars.
Not so for the other two.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jan 20, 2022 13:28:38 GMT -5
I’d say even amongst the HW there’s a clear divide. Sasha and Bayley are booked strong, but not NEARLY to the level of Charlotte and (post 2018) Becky. Like you can cut that Sasha and Bayley MIGHT lose a match on many nights and they lose quite a lot for top stars. Not so for the other two. Sasha and Bayley are one of the main reasons why the division is where it is right now. in 2020 they literally steamrolled everyone, just so they could finally get to the Bayley vs. Sasha match they were hinting at since they both debuted on the main roster with Sasha as one of the LEAST sympathetic babyfaces of all time. and my point with the reiteration was, even people they push well like the horsewomen deserve "better" because the we beat a bunch of losers booking they fall back on helps literally no one. It makes the division look terrible and the Horsewomen being at the top of the pile of losers doesn't really make them that impressive.
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asuka007
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Post by asuka007 on Jan 20, 2022 13:42:51 GMT -5
Bayley and Sasha also lost quite a lot though. Get back to me when Charlotte or Becky are tapping out clean on TV as champions. Because Bayley did that repeatedly ad SD Champion.
And they made their opponents look so much better. They did more to make NXT Women look good in one night than Charlotte did in her entire second title reign there.
Also of course they both put Bianca over HARD and clean in a way Becky and Charlotte have not.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 20, 2022 13:58:41 GMT -5
Reading about Asuka’s title reigns makes me think a bit of Bret Hart: Vince would always end up defaulting the title back to Bret because he was reliable, could draw, and was just an overall fantastic talent, but very rarely did it feel like Vince was trying to *keep* the title on Hart, instead opting to try to get Diesel or Michaels or whomever over as his next big star while Bret would get shuffled into some midcard feud or another, thus hurting perceptions of his time as champ. Asuka has a similarly decorated title history, but there’s that nagging feeling of “she’s never going to fully be on top, once the stage is big enough she’ll lose to one of the Horsewomen”, but what makes it worse is that even when she is champion they don’t book her in really worthwhile, fleshed out feuds like Bret at least got with Owen in ‘94. I still don’t think that’s bad enough booking for me as an Asuka fan to talk about her as if she’s treated like the Brooklyn Brawler or something. The discourse around her comes off to me unusually pessimistic for someone with those sorts of accolades, and I disagree with that personally. I can point to a couple of shows where I’d have depicted her stronger, but I don’t think she’s unique in the excessive way that modern day WWE often undercuts babyfaces for cheap heat. She's definitely not jobbed out, but I'm guessing for some people it's more emblematic of some of the larger complaints about the division and in some cases WWE as a whole, male or female: you get someone like Asuka who's really great, she does get a lot of kayfabe accolades, but her reigns don't get to feel like they "matter" enough for those accolades to really feel as satisfying as they should, given the complaints that her reigns either lacked storylines/character moments or were booked to feel less important in whatever ways. Like, I agree that Asuka shouldn't have to be at the tip-top of the division to feel important, and again she's certainly not someone who's been buried at any point in her run, she's basically on that tier directly below the Horsewomen so she's certainly treated as legit, but I can get some people seeing what she's won over time wishing she'd had more meat on the bones to her title reigns and whatnot. On the men's side it's probably a bit how people felt about the direction Bryan's first big reign was headed before he had to step away the first time, or how some look back on Kofi's run (though that's certainly largely colored by the way it ended).
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asuka007
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Post by asuka007 on Jan 20, 2022 16:26:57 GMT -5
The problem with Asuka is that they can build her up well enough. But once she’s there, it feels like they don’t know what to do with her?
She rarely gets a chance to really run with things, or get meaty stories of her own.
She’s a prime example of how accolades ON PAPER can be deceptive in today’s WWE.
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on Jan 20, 2022 19:27:54 GMT -5
Asuka. At this point, just book her as a legend like Orton. I feel like Asuka being treated like shit on the main roster is somewhat of a false narrative. Is she a horsewoman? Perhaps not, but she’s had a hell of a run, similar to Alexa.
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