Hook vs. Serpentico

[petef3]

Jan 22, 2022 18:29:15 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

Jan 22, 2022 17:32:08 GMT -5 petef3 said:

God, that line from Jericho was so cringeworthy. That's a good way for Hook to get Michael Cole'd.

Didn't even notice the line from Jericho, dont think many did, I also don't think HOOK is in any danger of his momentum being derailed by a throwaway Jericho line

There seems to be a running trend on this board of people refusing to believe in any form of cause & effect if it's not a direct, measurable consequence. "Oh, the Goldust wig thing didn't really hurt Goldberg that much." "Oh, it wasn't a big deal for the LOD to go to a DCOR with the Headbangers in their first match back" are two relatively recent examples. Nobody is saying that this one line is going to sink Hook--it's that lines LIKE that are going to hurt Hook if they're allowed to continue, and hurt the product as a whole if cutesy insider bullsh*t takes over the announce booth breaking immersion for people who are trying to be entertained. 

Canaries in the coalmine are a real thing--literally and figuratively.

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Jan 22, 2022 21:55:06 GMT -5 petef3 said:

Jan 22, 2022 18:29:15 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

Didn't even notice the line from Jericho, dont think many did, I also don't think HOOK is in any danger of his momentum being derailed by a throwaway Jericho line

There seems to be a running trend on this board of people refusing to believe in any form of cause & effect if it's not a direct, measurable consequence. "Oh, the Goldust wig thing didn't really hurt Goldberg that much." "Oh, it wasn't a big deal for the LOD to go to a DCOR with the Headbangers in their first match back" are two relatively recent examples. Nobody is saying that this one line is going to sink Hook--it's that lines LIKE that are going to hurt Hook if they're allowed to continue, and hurt the product as a whole if cutesy insider bullsh*t takes over the announce booth breaking immersion for people who are trying to be entertained. 

Canaries in the coalmine are a real thing--literally and figuratively.

The examples you listed were blatant things, that everyone saw, and everyone aacknowledged, you are the first person to even really bring up Jericho's line, that's where I'm seeing a difference. I see no one saying this is a detriment to Hook, and I doubt it'd even continue if it did.

[petef3]

Jan 22, 2022 22:01:49 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

Jan 22, 2022 21:55:06 GMT -5 petef3 said:

There seems to be a running trend on this board of people refusing to believe in any form of cause & effect if it's not a direct, measurable consequence. "Oh, the Goldust wig thing didn't really hurt Goldberg that much." "Oh, it wasn't a big deal for the LOD to go to a DCOR with the Headbangers in their first match back" are two relatively recent examples. Nobody is saying that this one line is going to sink Hook--it's that lines LIKE that are going to hurt Hook if they're allowed to continue, and hurt the product as a whole if cutesy insider bullsh*t takes over the announce booth breaking immersion for people who are trying to be entertained. 

Canaries in the coalmine are a real thing--literally and figuratively.

The examples you listed were blatant things, that everyone saw, and everyone aacknowledged, you are the first person to even really bring up Jericho's line, that's where I'm seeing a difference. I see no one saying this is a detriment to Hook, and I doubt it'd even continue if it did.

Not everyone, because people on this very board were arguing that these were "false IWC narratives" and not really that big of a deal.

[Blade]

Well, uh, the Goldust wig thing wasn't a big deal. Citation: I started watching pretty much right after that and the only reason I knew it was a THING was everyone online was whining about it. Goldberg was still over, still killed HHH for the title like a month and a half later.

(Don't let this distract from the magnificence that was the epic Hook/Serpentico showdown, though.)

[EP 54 is banned from Collision]

*wrestling fan confuses "I didn't like it" with "irreparably damaged" for the millionth time*

[Mozenrath]

Jan 22, 2022 17:32:08 GMT -5 petef3 said:

Jan 22, 2022 13:40:41 GMT -5 asuka007 said:

I love everything about Hook’s presentation:

And he is SO OVER!!

God, that line from Jericho was so cringeworthy. That's a good way for Hook to get Michael Cole'd.

Jericho is so weird on commentary because he will say some of the most annoying shit sometimes, but then will have an insightful comment or catch something subtle like Jade kissing Anna before slamming her. He's such a mixed bag.

[petef3]

Jan 23, 2022 7:25:10 GMT -5 EP 54 is banned from Collision said:

*wrestling fan confuses "I didn't like it" with "irreparably damaged" for the millionth time*

*wrestling fan still doesn't know what "canary in a coalmine" means. It was indicative of a larger problem, not THE problem.

[mystermystery]

[Clash, Never a Meter Maid]

I laughed so hard. That was so sad. Hook knows no dignity.

["Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay]

One of the greatest squashes in history.

[Hurbster]

Serpentico getting thrown with the streamers still out looked pretty nice. If this is all leading up to the unlikely tag team of Hook and Nick Comoroto I'll mark out for it.

[Tenshigure]

Jan 23, 2022 12:30:23 GMT -5 petef3 said:

Jan 23, 2022 7:25:10 GMT -5 EP 54 is banned from Collision said:

*wrestling fan confuses "I didn't like it" with "irreparably damaged" for the millionth time*

*wrestling fan still doesn't know what "canary in a coalmine" means. It was indicative of a larger problem, not THE problem.

The only 'problem' in this whole scenario is Jericho's commentary 'skills'. The man simply comes off as white noise in the booth at this point, screeching and hollering over the others more often than not so that his voice is heard rather than being subdued in his delivery. Sure, he has his moments; but it's really few and far between, and is far better suited to only be there for a match or two rather than a full hour of television.

As for Hook getting "Michael Cole'd", you're off-base here, not to mention that makes no sense...Michael Cole was never a fan-favorite at any point in his career, nor has any of his commentary ever affected the legacy of a performer in such a way that they could never recover from it. It was a single comment made by a commentator that the vast majority didn't even register at the time. Making this out as some sort of death knell for his momentum in comparison to two incidents that took place over 20+ years ago (neither of which even phased either of their legacies) is pure overreaction at this point. How you compare the three in any form is incomprehensible in the first place, let alone somehow equate the general response of us not taking Jericho's words as a big deal will somehow make things worse in the future.

Hook is still being built up slowly in this persona they've let him have. Unlike the WWE that tries to shoehorn in the perception and personas by having commentary dictate to their viewers what they're seeing and what the should be feeling, AEW has been more than accommodating in letting the moments build up organically for their talents. Hook's presentation has been nothing short of textbook when it comes to building a new talent (hide his weaknesses, keep his matches short, don't bury the persona where it isn't needed), and you can't let precedence from another company's bad habits get in the way of stars 'getting over'. 

Even if Jericho is being a little too 'insider baseball' for some, I see no reason why we should be panicking and assuming Hook is doomed to fail with commentary even using the mildest of compliments for him. He's been proving himself worthy of the position he's in right now, and the only thing AEW is 'guilty' of at this point is playing along with the reaction by continuing the progression as it is.

[petef3]

If you don't think Michael Cole had something to do with the decline of Fandango, then we were simply watching different shows. No, not singlehandedly. No, Fandango was not a future World Champion. But he absolutely affected him adversely.

I'm not "assuming Hook is doomed to fail," either.

[Deleted]

Jan 23, 2022 19:54:01 GMT -5 petef3 said:

If you don't think Michael Cole had something to do with the decline of Fandango, then we were simply watching different shows. No, not singlehandedly. No, Fandango was not a future World Champion. But he absolutely affected him adversely.

I'm not "assuming Hook is doomed to fail," either.

Chris Jericho’s throwaway line on commentary won’t even be a drop in the bucket of HOOK’s rise in the company.

Now, the extent to which the company is insisting on having everyone exclusively refer to him as “The Cold Hearted” HOOK is incredibly evocative of the stuff I despise about WWE, and has started to cool me on HOOK a bit, I’ll admit that.

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Jan 23, 2022 19:54:01 GMT -5 petef3 said:

If you don't think Michael Cole had something to do with the decline of Fandango, then we were simply watching different shows. No, not singlehandedly. No, Fandango was not a future World Champion. But he absolutely affected him adversely.

I'm not "assuming Hook is doomed to fail," either.

Are we just blatantly ignorring how Fandango was barely pushed at all to try and get "Fandangoing" to stay over? How about the terrible heatless promo he cut in the ring to a dead crowd two weeks after Mania in South Carolina where he asked "Do you all want to go FANDANGOING with me??" and it was brutal. Or like two weeks later in the UK they put him against Regal who the crowd decidedly chose him over because it's Regal?

Like Michael Cole makes EVERYONE look and sound lame... if we're talking about why Fandango fizzled out? There are several reasons well above whatever Cole did...

[petef3]

Jan 23, 2022 19:56:41 GMT -5 @mattyphatty said:

Jan 23, 2022 19:54:01 GMT -5 petef3 said:

If you don't think Michael Cole had something to do with the decline of Fandango, then we were simply watching different shows. No, not singlehandedly. No, Fandango was not a future World Champion. But he absolutely affected him adversely.

I'm not "assuming Hook is doomed to fail," either.

Chris Jericho’s throwaway line on commentary won’t even be a drop in the bucket of HOOK’s rise in the company.

Now, the extent to which the company is insisting on having everyone exclusively refer to him as “The Cold Hearted” HOOK is incredibly evocative of the stuff I despise about WWE, and has started to cool me on HOOK a bit, I’ll admit that.

It's like you're not even attempting to engage in a good-faith argument at this point. At no point have I said that Jericho's line will singlehandedly bring down Hook. It is INDICATIVE of a trend that AEW should be striving to avoid if they don't want to affect Hook IN THE FUTURE.

[Deleted]

Jan 23, 2022 21:28:39 GMT -5 petef3 said:

Jan 23, 2022 19:56:41 GMT -5 @mattyphatty said:

Chris Jericho’s throwaway line on commentary won’t even be a drop in the bucket of HOOK’s rise in the company.

Now, the extent to which the company is insisting on having everyone exclusively refer to him as “The Cold Hearted” HOOK is incredibly evocative of the stuff I despise about WWE, and has started to cool me on HOOK a bit, I’ll admit that.

It's like you're not even attempting to engage in a good-faith argument at this point. At no point have I said that Jericho's line will singlehandedly bring down Hook. It is INDICATIVE of a trend that AEW should be striving to avoid if they don't want to affect Hook IN THE FUTURE.

I didn’t remotely say you said the line would singlehandedly bring him down. I said if he’s brought down Jericho saying “he’s popular and over everywhere he goes” won’t even be a drop in the bucket of the reasons why.

Shoving his chosen nickname down our throats, is way more of WWE INDICATIVE, to me, that’s all I was saying.

[Tenshigure]

Jan 23, 2022 19:54:01 GMT -5 petef3 said:

If you don't think Michael Cole had something to do with the decline of Fandango, then we were simply watching different shows.

Again, you are voicing concerns about a completely different company and the way it handled a particular individual over a decade ago (seriously, the whole Fandango ordeal was 10 years ago now).

All this is indicative of is something we already knew about the WWE: once they’ve got a “viral hit” on their hands, they’ll milk it dry as quickly as possible to destroy its credibility. More recent examples would be “Woken” Matt Hardy and the laughing promos with Bray and Matt, or The Fiend and Alexa Bliss and the way they handled the handoff there.

Again, you’re taking a single comment a sole commentator made and comparing it to moments that happened in an entirely different company under completely different management.

Sure, AEW isn’t innocent of having poor lapses of judgement (see: The Nightmare Collective, Dark Order 1.0), but you can’t reserve naysaying due to precedence from a different company that has had a rather poor track record of getting ANY new star over in the last 10+ years.

[Chainsaw]

Why he had to absolutely dogwalk the Snakeman when he had some sweetass Hayabusa tribute gear is beyond me, damn.

[King Devitt]

Jan 23, 2022 19:56:41 GMT -5 @mattyphatty said:

Jan 23, 2022 19:54:01 GMT -5 petef3 said:

If you don't think Michael Cole had something to do with the decline of Fandango, then we were simply watching different shows. No, not singlehandedly. No, Fandango was not a future World Champion. But he absolutely affected him adversely.

I'm not "assuming Hook is doomed to fail," either.

Chris Jericho’s throwaway line on commentary won’t even be a drop in the bucket of HOOK’s rise in the company.

Now, the extent to which the company is insisting on having everyone exclusively refer to him as “The Cold Hearted” HOOK is incredibly evocative of the stuff I despise about WWE, and has started to cool me on HOOK a bit, I’ll admit that.

I get what they're going for but it's SO shoe-horned. Just calling him "The Handsome Devil" is more than enough.

It sounds cool. It flows nicely. And it fits.

"The Cold-Hearted" does sound like some WWE speak. And it's so awkward sounding in comparison.

Then we go all "The Cold Hearted Handsome Devil" and it's like STAHP. NO. GO BACK TO YOUR ROOM AND THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU DID.

Send me Hook when you're done.

For research and homework and stuff.