mc74
Samurai Cop
Posts: 2,410
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Post by mc74 on Feb 12, 2022 21:07:46 GMT -5
In short, the thing that's made me lose interest in Mania and WWE in general these days is the exact thing Negan (or whoever said it a while back): Nothing matters anymore.
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Post by eJm on Feb 12, 2022 21:09:53 GMT -5
I know for me that each Wrestlemania felt like the ending of a year. If you go back and look at the cards of each of those events you can see changes whether it's wrestlers or status of said wrestlers, it's like a timeline. These modern Wrestlemanias always feel like they're all within the same "Wrestling Year" if that makes any sense. It doesn't feel like it's a completely new year we're dealing with. It feels like they just did another Wrestlemania 2 months later from where they were previously. Look at this upcoming one. It feels like it could have taken place 2-3 years ago. I do get what you mean. The last WM that felt like a transition was 30. Bryan overcoming the odds, The Shield squashing the Attitude Era, Cesaro tossing Big Show, Brock beating the streak, a lot of stuff was put on the table to feel like a real status quo change. And whilst some of that sort of happened (Brock/Roman I made sense for the time, even with the wonky build and execution of…all of it), the next year, Bryan was in the opening ladder match, Shield member Dean Ambrose was in that same match (with a feud that suuuuucked), Cesaro was on the pre-show and Taker just beat another guy as though the streak ending didn’t mean much to his character.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2022 21:19:53 GMT -5
I know for me that each Wrestlemania felt like the ending of a year. If you go back and look at the cards of each of those events you can see changes whether it's wrestlers or status of said wrestlers, it's like a timeline. These modern Wrestlemanias always feel like they're all within the same "Wrestling Year" if that makes any sense. It doesn't feel like it's a completely new year we're dealing with. It feels like they just did another Wrestlemania 2 months later from where they were previously. Look at this upcoming one. It feels like it could have taken place 2-3 years ago. I do get what you mean. The last WM that felt like a transition was 30. Bryan overcoming the odds, The Shield squashing the Attitude Era, Cesaro tossing Big Show, Brock beating the streak, a lot of stuff was put on the table to feel like a real status quo change. And whilst some of that sort of happened (Brock/Roman I made sense for the time, even with the wonky build and execution of…all of it), the next year, Bryan was in the opening ladder match, Shield member Dean Ambrose was in that same match (with a feud that suuuuucked), Cesaro was on the pre-show and Taker just beat another guy as though the streak ending didn’t mean much to his character. Yep that's exactly when I thought the last big transition was too, WM30. WM31 had it's own share of problems but it also felt as if that took place a few months later due to the fact that there wasn't enough change. I distinctly remember Bryan coming out the night after WM30 on Raw and having the Shield besides him backing him up so it didn't really feel like enough time passed even though it was actually a year. It was weird. Even Taker trying to be "redeemed" against Wyatt, all that other stuff I don't know. WWE aren't really making it known that it's a new year and that's frustrating and it isn't nostalgia goggles either. Like, those old WMs really changed so much in one year. Even in the New Generation Era they changed so much. HBK went from the Boy Toy to the man who beat Bret and if you look at how long that took it feels like a long time but it was just a few years all because it made sense.
We don't get that these days. All we get is them trying to do this "Ronda vs the lead women" and "Reigns vs Lesnar for the 2929929 time" stuff again.
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Post by 06vwgti on Feb 12, 2022 21:31:40 GMT -5
Feuds during WM don't feel like blowoffs, because they'll have the rematch again at the next PPV (AJ vs Nakamura comes to mind). I also think using the name "Wrestlemania Backlash" cheapens Wrestlemania too.
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Post by polarbearpete on Feb 12, 2022 21:31:47 GMT -5
I think WrestleMania 35 had that transition type feeling to it. You had Rollins definitively beating Lesnar. KofiMania culminating in a world title win. The women main eventing for the first time with Becky Lynch solidifying herself as the ace of the company. Triple H and Batista having their big matchup, which might be the last Mania match for either man. Reigns had his big comeback match.
WrestleMania 36 was also being build up to be a transition type Mania as well, with McIntyre being crowned and Undertaker having his final match, but it ended up feeling off due to being in the PC.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2022 22:22:34 GMT -5
Feuds during WM don't feel like blowoffs, because they'll have the rematch again at the next PPV (AJ vs Nakamura comes to mind). I also think using the name "Wrestlemania Backlash" cheapens Wrestlemania too. Agreed. Like, just look at last year's WM for example. Priest and Bunny vs. Miz and Morrison was an awesome match and would've been a perfect ending to that feud, but they kept doing Priest vs. Miz/Morrison for like a month after that.
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Post by Rolent Tex on Feb 13, 2022 3:04:13 GMT -5
One thing that killed modern WrestleManias for me was when they started booking main events a year in advance. If you knew what was going on then the Rumble all of a sudden meant nothing as well because you knew whoever won wasn’t being slotted for a Mania main event. I miss the main event blowing off a big feud or strapping up a new guy and elevating him. Instead now we get replays of matches we’ve seen over and over.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Feb 13, 2022 3:56:19 GMT -5
One thing that killed modern WrestleManias for me was when they started booking main events a year in advance. How much of this is "They actually booked the main event a year in advance on TV" compared to "I read wrestling news in the summer that says that this is THE PLAN for WrestleMania" though? Because there's a bit of a difference there, I'd say. I mean, real example to watch for in the next year. Apparently Becky Lynch v Ronda Rousey is THE PLAN for WM39. Make a note of when they actually start setting it up on TV (and them doing the tease a couple of weeks back before Rousey chose the other champion doesn't count).
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thehottag
Don Corleone
We're here for one reason only: fame, fortune, & the World Wrestling Federation Tag Team Champions!
Posts: 1,668
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Post by thehottag on Feb 13, 2022 4:07:34 GMT -5
Like, those old WMs really changed so much in one year. Even in the New Generation Era they changed so much. HBK went from the Boy Toy to the man who beat Bret and if you look at how long that took it feels like a long time but it was just a few years all because it made sense. We don't get that these days. All we get is them trying to do this "Ronda vs the lead women" and "Reigns vs Lesnar for the 2929929 time" stuff again. I think a part of that is their 'save it for later' mentality. They think of a big match up & say 'we'll save this for Summerslam' or 'we'll save this for next year's Wrestlemania'. There are multiple issues with this: 1) Because the matches on the shows are already planned, the storylines concerning them are put into slow motion to time them for these events. 2) Any other potential storylines featuring these characters or potential opponents are treated as filler, & have to be dropped when the time dictates (regardless if it's finished or not) 3) The audience gets conditioned to only treat those shows are important, & so tune out the rest of the time. If WWE had returning stars throughout the year (instead of just Wrestlemania/Summerslam) or booked a PPV match that month to strike whilst the iron is hot, fans would think of each PPV more favourable, rather than saying "should've had this at Wrestlemania".
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Feb 13, 2022 5:07:07 GMT -5
One thing that killed modern WrestleManias for me was when they started booking main events a year in advance. How much of this is "They actually booked the main event a year in advance on TV" compared to "I read wrestling news in the summer that says that this is THE PLAN for WrestleMania" though? Because there's a bit of a difference there, I'd say. I mean, real example to watch for in the next year. Apparently Becky Lynch v Ronda Rousey is THE PLAN for WM39. Make a note of when they actually start setting it up on TV (and them doing the tease a couple of weeks back before Rousey chose the other champion doesn't count). Which I guess is actually the main issue; they make a plan and then they put zero narrative thought into the establishment of that plan or telling any sort of longer-term story with those pieces until January, sometimes March. No touches, no details, no real sense they're on a collision course, no pieces being arranged so that the story emerges and you can see how the pieces might shape out. WWE has just set its main events like a year in advance and then writes normal week to week WWE television afterward. It's the worst combination to produce a satisfying conclusion, because nothing in the middle ever feels like the middle, it feels like filler.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,122
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Post by Mozenrath on Feb 13, 2022 5:12:57 GMT -5
I think moving to two days helped, since the bloat had made some past Wrestlemanias agony. I do also like that it has encouraged them to get some stuff in places of prominence, like Bianca vs Sasha was, and it helped with fatigue. There are major problems with it, like not making it known ahead of time what will be on each day for the sake of ticket holders who can only catch one or the other, but the benefits help some.
I do agree that the Wrestlemanias do suffer from a lot of the current booking problems, for obvious reasons.
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Post by Sparvid on Feb 13, 2022 7:09:47 GMT -5
it'd also help if feuds were planned well in advance to have a proper end at Wrestlemania for all over the card instead of only a 2 months issue being resolved at the show of shows I wonder how many Wrestlemania matches - even since they started doing monthly PPVs - where the first seeds were laid at or around Survivor Series...
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Post by papagiorgio on Feb 13, 2022 8:28:28 GMT -5
Man, you think it’s bad at your age? Imagine growing up and tuning in on Saturday morning and getting pumped because they just announced Mr Perfect vs Brutus the Barber. Beefcake was super over at the time. He should have gotten an I-C reign back when the title meant more, but the parasailing accident derailed his career. I wish they had kept the Money in the Bank match as part of Wrestlemania. Also, not everyone needs to be a part of the show. If they keep the Andre the Giant Battle Royal, have it not just be a jobber battle royal. They should make it mean more like year 1. I'm not a big fan of triple threat matches, fatal 4 ways, and such.
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Post by polarbearpete on Feb 13, 2022 8:43:24 GMT -5
How much of this is "They actually booked the main event a year in advance on TV" compared to "I read wrestling news in the summer that says that this is THE PLAN for WrestleMania" though? Because there's a bit of a difference there, I'd say. I mean, real example to watch for in the next year. Apparently Becky Lynch v Ronda Rousey is THE PLAN for WM39. Make a note of when they actually start setting it up on TV (and them doing the tease a couple of weeks back before Rousey chose the other champion doesn't count). Which I guess is actually the main issue; they make a plan and then they put zero narrative thought into the establishment of that plan or telling any sort of longer-term story with those pieces until January, sometimes March. No touches, no details, no real sense they're on a collision course, no pieces being arranged so that the story emerges and you can see how the pieces might shape out. WWE has just set its main events like a year in advance and then writes normal week to week WWE television afterward. It's the worst combination to produce a satisfying conclusion, because nothing in the middle ever feels like the middle, it feels like filler. I don’t think that’s necessarily true for the main events a lot of the time. Lesnar-Reigns has been a feud that’s been built up pretty much since August and interweaves the two wrestlers and Heyman. The two prior Wrestlemanias didn’t have main events that were set up a year in advance, at least as far as we know (Reigns-Bryan-Edge and McIntyre-Lesnar). And the year before had the Ronda-Charlotte-Becky main event that had been set up and building for a large portion of the prior year (with them pivoting from Ronda-Charlotte to the triple threat on the road there).
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Post by King (Super) Dragunov on Feb 13, 2022 8:48:42 GMT -5
It sucks, because, on paper a match with Brock vs Roman, title for title, that SHOULD feel monumental. And I know that’s what they are going for. But it’s all so blah. Also, with now having multiple PPVs in giant stadiums. Like I think Money in the Bank is gonna be a stadium show. It really does take away the spectacle of what a WrestleMania should be. Now the only thing that sets it apart from SummerSlam is that it’s two nights. I really don't see the appeal of stadium shows. I mean, outdoor shows can provide an admittingly cool appearance for pyro and stuff, but not only do you lose on a lot of crowd noise, but you're at the mercy of weather. I dunno, you can make arena WrestleMania shows work, I think. I hate stadium shows, well the ones that have no roof. The way it kills the crowd noise is what does it for me. I'm BIG on crowd reactions. Like imagine how loud the pop for the Hardy's returning at WM would have been had that stadium had a roof on it.
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Post by Zombie Mod is not a ghoul. on Feb 13, 2022 8:55:51 GMT -5
i thought the main problem was the ever looming threat of that kid rock concert somehow managing to find it's way back to the entrance way and starting all over again
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schizo
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 3,535
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Post by schizo on Feb 13, 2022 9:42:33 GMT -5
The problem with modern Wrestlemania Is that Veer hasn’t wrestled in one yet
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Feb 13, 2022 9:54:46 GMT -5
One of the things that takes the meaning out of the event is just how rarely Modern Mania is the start or finish of anything. It's hard to get hyped up to care when there's an entire PPV a couple weeks later dedicated to finishing Mania. There's a reason the Super Bowl is massive... that's it. One game. You know it's the end. There's a reason Game 7's in the NBA/MLB/NHL are the best ratings. Because the drama is ending. It's the finale. There is no "come back in 3 weeks to see the rematch!" Now we get Backlash where half that card is the ME rematches. I hate that part so much. Or anytime the match was just to continue a storyline.
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Post by polarbearpete on Feb 13, 2022 11:41:46 GMT -5
One of the things that takes the meaning out of the event is just how rarely Modern Mania is the start or finish of anything. It's hard to get hyped up to care when there's an entire PPV a couple weeks later dedicated to finishing Mania. There's a reason the Super Bowl is massive... that's it. One game. You know it's the end. There's a reason Game 7's in the NBA/MLB/NHL are the best ratings. Because the drama is ending. It's the finale. There is no "come back in 3 weeks to see the rematch!" Now we get Backlash where half that card is the ME rematches. I hate that part so much. Or anytime the match was just to continue a storyline. Last year’s Backlash had no Mania rematches. The PPV after Mania in 2020 had no Mania rematches. The one in 2019 did have two Mania rematches (Joe-Rey and Shane-Miz). Backlash 2018 had two Mania rematches (Bliss-Jax and Styles-Nakamura).
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Post by ChitownKnight on Feb 13, 2022 16:12:02 GMT -5
I know for me that each Wrestlemania felt like the ending of a year. If you go back and look at the cards of each of those events you can see changes whether it's wrestlers or status of said wrestlers, it's like a timeline. These modern Wrestlemanias always feel like they're all within the same "Wrestling Year" if that makes any sense. It doesn't feel like it's a completely new year we're dealing with. It feels like they just did another Wrestlemania 2 months later from where they were previously. Look at this upcoming one. It feels like it could have taken place 2-3 years ago. I do get what you mean. The last WM that felt like a transition was 30. Bryan overcoming the odds, The Shield squashing the Attitude Era, Cesaro tossing Big Show, Brock beating the streak, a lot of stuff was put on the table to feel like a real status quo change. And whilst some of that sort of happened (Brock/Roman I made sense for the time, even with the wonky build and execution of…all of it), the next year, Bryan was in the opening ladder match, Shield member Dean Ambrose was in that same match (with a feud that suuuuucked), Cesaro was on the pre-show and Taker just beat another guy as though the streak ending didn’t mean much to his character. I think Mania 31 was transitional with the main event atleast. Seth cashing in felt like a new era in some ways
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