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Post by Jindrak Mark on Mar 24, 2022 17:56:27 GMT -5
Also... seems like there's a lot of people more pissed that Hogan didn't lose to Bret in 93 or supposedly "killed WCW" then his racist rant. That he apologized for. You're forgetting how absolutely awful his apology was, followed by the racist tweet he retweeted after and all the actions since that show he doesn't understand the gravity of what he did. Yeah that's the thing with Hogan. He's clearly sorry that he got caught, not for what he said. This might not always be fair on my part, but I don't buy 99% of apologies that occur after someone has been exposed for something. If this horrible thing you said/done never came to light, would you have voluntarily came forward and tried to make amends of your own accord? If the answer isn't genuinely yes then I don't really care what PR response they can come up with after the fact.
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on Mar 24, 2022 18:01:49 GMT -5
You're forgetting how absolutely awful his apology was, followed by the racist tweet he retweeted after and all the actions since that show he doesn't understand the gravity of what he did. What was awful about his apology? He admitted what he said, said it was a low point in his life, and apologized. Some people will never be able to forgive him, I get that. But he apologized. Multiple times. I feel like anyone else wouldn't still be hated as he is. And yes, the tweet wasn't a good look, but I understood the point he was making. Look, Hogan isn't perfect, noone is, but people are ruthless when it comes to him, but glorify others who did just as bad or worse. His apology wasn't really for what he said though. This wasn't just "Hogan said the n-word," which would have been understandably enough for people to be rightly upset and done with him. He has multiple accounts of saying degrading deeply racist shit. The N-bomb isn't even the most racist thing he says in the sex tape rant, which is really f***ing saying something. His tweeting after the apology negates any true sentiment the apology had, and then the private apology he gave to the locker room went over incredibly poorly as - like all his apologies - they boil down to "I'm sorry I got caught" "I didn't know what I said was that bad" and/or "I was in a dark time in my life." With the possible exception of Lars Sullivan's years-worth of racist messageboard posts, nobody in wrestling really has said the next level vile shit he's said on-tape, and bafflingly fumbles the apology each and every time. Do you really think an adult could be in such "a bad place" that they go on that long of a dehumanizing racist rant? That's not something people do, except for racists.
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on Mar 24, 2022 18:04:16 GMT -5
Also, I personally get a kick out of the thought of Warrior today, looking up at us and seeing his life's work completely ripped from his intent and instead used as an indicator icon of inclusion and "being yourself."
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Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Mar 24, 2022 18:04:35 GMT -5
What was awful about his apology? He admitted what he said, said it was a low point in his life, and apologized. Some people will never be able to forgive him, I get that. But he apologized. Multiple times. I feel like anyone else wouldn't still be hated as he is. And yes, the tweet wasn't a good look, but I understood the point he was making. Look, Hogan isn't perfect, noone is, but people are ruthless when it comes to him, but glorify others who did just as bad or worse. His apology wasn't really for what he said though. This wasn't just "Hogan said the n-word," which would have been understandably enough for people to be rightly upset and done with him. He has multiple accounts of saying degrading deeply racist shit. The N-bomb isn't even the most racist thing he says in the sex tape rant, which is really f***ing saying something. His tweeting after the apology negates any true sentiment the apology had, and then the private apology he gave to the locker room went over incredibly poorly as - like all his apologies - they boil down to "I'm sorry I got caught" "I didn't know what I said was that bad" and/or "I was in a dark time in my life." With the possible exception of Lars Sullivan's years-worth of racist messageboard posts, nobody in wrestling really has said the next level vile shit he's said on-tape, and bafflingly fumbles the apology each and every time. Do you really think an adult could be in such "a bad place" that they go on that long of a dehumanizing racist rant? That's not something people do, except for racists. Yes. I do believe it. He was in a dark place, and his no talent daughter had cost him millions, and achieved nothing as a singer. And read his apology. And also; pay attention to his actions. There's not one single report of him being racist towards other wrestlers or fans.
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Post by Starshine on Mar 24, 2022 18:14:55 GMT -5
His apology wasn't really for what he said though. This wasn't just "Hogan said the n-word," which would have been understandably enough for people to be rightly upset and done with him. He has multiple accounts of saying degrading deeply racist shit. The N-bomb isn't even the most racist thing he says in the sex tape rant, which is really f***ing saying something. His tweeting after the apology negates any true sentiment the apology had, and then the private apology he gave to the locker room went over incredibly poorly as - like all his apologies - they boil down to "I'm sorry I got caught" "I didn't know what I said was that bad" and/or "I was in a dark time in my life." With the possible exception of Lars Sullivan's years-worth of racist messageboard posts, nobody in wrestling really has said the next level vile shit he's said on-tape, and bafflingly fumbles the apology each and every time. Do you really think an adult could be in such "a bad place" that they go on that long of a dehumanizing racist rant? That's not something people do, except for racists. Yes. I do believe it. He was in a dark place, and his no talent daughter had cost him millions, and achieved nothing as a singer. And read his apology. And also; pay attention to his actions. There's not one single report of him being racist towards other wrestlers or fans. Not doing something publicly, doesn't mean someone doesn't do it. There's more evidence to the contrary as it is, so I don't get what that has to do with anything, especially considering his apology was barely an apology. Then, even after his apology, he openly shit on the guys who didn't accept it as not being a part of the "WWE brotherhood." The guy's a total dipshit, and I don't understand why this is the hill you want to die on.
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Mar 24, 2022 18:19:45 GMT -5
Warrior is genuinely looked at fondly now and the company that got so pissed off at him that they made a burial DVD did the worlds biggest 180 once he passed. Hogan is much larger to wrestling than Warrior. His legacy will be fine.
(even though he's a racist, vile ghoul of a human being)
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on Mar 24, 2022 18:23:55 GMT -5
His apology wasn't really for what he said though. This wasn't just "Hogan said the n-word," which would have been understandably enough for people to be rightly upset and done with him. He has multiple accounts of saying degrading deeply racist shit. The N-bomb isn't even the most racist thing he says in the sex tape rant, which is really f***ing saying something. His tweeting after the apology negates any true sentiment the apology had, and then the private apology he gave to the locker room went over incredibly poorly as - like all his apologies - they boil down to "I'm sorry I got caught" "I didn't know what I said was that bad" and/or "I was in a dark time in my life." With the possible exception of Lars Sullivan's years-worth of racist messageboard posts, nobody in wrestling really has said the next level vile shit he's said on-tape, and bafflingly fumbles the apology each and every time. Do you really think an adult could be in such "a bad place" that they go on that long of a dehumanizing racist rant? That's not something people do, except for racists. Yes. I do believe it. He was in a dark place, and his no talent daughter had cost him millions, and achieved nothing as a singer. And read his apology. And also; pay attention to his actions. There's not one single report of him being racist towards other wrestlers or fans. Holy shit, you're blaming Hogan's racism on his daughter?
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Post by El Cokehead del Knife Fight on Mar 24, 2022 18:27:33 GMT -5
He'll get whitewashed and you won't be allowed to talk about how he was an awful person because it's too soon and he totally apologised.
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Cranjis McBasketball
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Mar 24, 2022 18:34:51 GMT -5
He'll get whitewashed and you won't be allowed to talk about how he was an awful person because it's too soon and he totally apologised. He’s gotta die the right way. If he just passes away from being 120, it’ll be harsh. If he gets trampled in a cattle stampede, we’ll all look the other way. Like everyone did like Kobe.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Mar 24, 2022 18:42:46 GMT -5
He'll get whitewashed and you won't be allowed to talk about how he was an awful person because it's too soon and he totally apologised. It's already happening in this thread and he isn't even dead.
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Post by James Fabiano on Mar 24, 2022 19:04:24 GMT -5
Warrior is genuinely looked at fondly now and the company that got so pissed off at him that they made a burial DVD did the worlds biggest 180 once he passed. Hogan is much larger to wrestling than Warrior. His legacy will be fine. (even though he's a racist, vile ghoul of a human being) Yes and they can get away with it, like I said, due to nostalgia and saying "we're talking about the character Hulk Hogan, not Terry Bollea." Same thing with Warrior. Macho Man too to a lesser degree...depends on what you believe happened with him and Liz. Heck, the Jimmy Snuka issue was getting public attention again and they still honored him after his death. Fact is, They do this a lot and only once got caught. Maybe twice if you count the Benoit incident...but didn't they honor him as a wrestler and a family man as info was coming out? So that would be worse.
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Post by James Fabiano on Mar 24, 2022 19:09:34 GMT -5
He'll get whitewashed and you won't be allowed to talk about how he was an awful person because it's too soon and he totally apologised. This, like I said, is usually how it works. Especially with nostalgic athletes and entertainers. Look at Michael Jackson for instance...Neverland notwithstanding. For awhile they didn't even use later pictures of him, associated as they were with the time of those controversies. Sadly I bet Bill Cosby will be treated the same way, when the time comes. Bob Barker too is another example. It's human nature not to speak ill of the dead, I guess. Unless you're a tabloid reporter or something.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Mar 24, 2022 19:27:37 GMT -5
Time isn't gonna erase his flaws. In fact it's more likely to bring it out in view. If Walt Disney's anti-semitism and treatment of people has become more apparent over the years, Hogan sure as hell isn't gonna be immune. Not to change topics too much but did more come from the anti-semitism? Because from looking it up, it seemed it came from an bitter ex employee’s book and nowhere else. It’s different from the hatred of unions and workers treatment because it felt like everyone Disney worked with had a story like that. As far as I know no one has corroborated any of the anti-semtic stuff for Walt, many of his staff were Jewish which doesn't necessarily mean anything. Dude though was 100% anti-union. What was awful about his apology? He admitted what he said, said it was a low point in his life, and apologized. Some people will never be able to forgive him, I get that. But he apologized. Multiple times. I feel like anyone else wouldn't still be hated as he is. And yes, the tweet wasn't a good look, but I understood the point he was making. Look, Hogan isn't perfect, noone is, but people are ruthless when it comes to him, but glorify others who did just as bad or worse. His apology wasn't really for what he said though. This wasn't just "Hogan said the n-word," which would have been understandably enough for people to be rightly upset and done with him. He has multiple accounts of saying degrading deeply racist shit. The N-bomb isn't even the most racist thing he says in the sex tape rant, which is really f***ing saying something. His tweeting after the apology negates any true sentiment the apology had, and then the private apology he gave to the locker room went over incredibly poorly as - like all his apologies - they boil down to "I'm sorry I got caught" "I didn't know what I said was that bad" and/or "I was in a dark time in my life." With the possible exception of Lars Sullivan's years-worth of racist messageboard posts, nobody in wrestling really has said the next level vile shit he's said on-tape, and bafflingly fumbles the apology each and every time. Do you really think an adult could be in such "a bad place" that they go on that long of a dehumanizing racist rant? That's not something people do, except for racists. Yeah, Even if Hogan didn't drop the N-bomb... his rant was racist as f***. He never actually apologized for anything despite him and multiple other people saying he has... at most if you look on the public statements he gave he apologized that he was on tape and basically told people not to get caught cause cameras are everywhere...
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Post by ChitownKnight on Mar 24, 2022 21:16:19 GMT -5
You're forgetting how absolutely awful his apology was, followed by the racist tweet he retweeted after and all the actions since that show he doesn't understand the gravity of what he did. Yeah that's the thing with Hogan. He's clearly sorry that he got caught, not for what he said. This might not always be fair on my part, but I don't buy 99% of apologies that occur after someone has been exposed for something. If this horrible thing you said/done never came to light, would you have voluntarily came forward and tried to make amends of your own accord? If the answer isn't genuinely yes then I don't really care what PR response they can come up with after the fact. I saw a well thought out apology the Briscos did and it looked genuine
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ToyfareMark
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Post by ToyfareMark on Mar 24, 2022 21:50:43 GMT -5
That he never won a Super Bowl.
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Post by MolotovMocktail on Mar 24, 2022 21:51:14 GMT -5
It’s going to be a case of separating the art from the artist. He’s in the same category as Ty Cobb, Roald Dahl, Michael Richards and Mel Gibson: he’s an enormous contributor to his field and provided moments that defined it; however, that has to be kept separate from seriously problematic personal beliefs.
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Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Mar 24, 2022 22:02:17 GMT -5
Yes. I do believe it. He was in a dark place, and his no talent daughter had cost him millions, and achieved nothing as a singer. And read his apology. And also; pay attention to his actions. There's not one single report of him being racist towards other wrestlers or fans. Not doing something publicly, doesn't mean someone doesn't do it. There's more evidence to the contrary as it is, so I don't get what that has to do with anything, especially considering his apology was barely an apology. Then, even after his apology, he openly shit on the guys who didn't accept it as not being a part of the "WWE brotherhood." The guy's a total dipshit, and I don't understand why this is the hill you want to die on. Actions, to me, speak louder than words. No workers or fans, or just random people like, flight attendants, doctors, wait staff, hotel staff, have come forward with Allegegations of racism. The man isn't perfect, and I do deeply understand the words that he said, hurt people, that POC who were fans, were crushed. I wish he's never uttered those words. But words spoken, when a man is at a low point, shouldn't define a man's whole life.
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Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Mar 24, 2022 22:03:45 GMT -5
Yes. I do believe it. He was in a dark place, and his no talent daughter had cost him millions, and achieved nothing as a singer. And read his apology. And also; pay attention to his actions. There's not one single report of him being racist towards other wrestlers or fans. Holy shit, you're blaming Hogan's racism on his daughter? Not at all. I don't believe he's a racist. I do believe that anger over Brookes failed career, and all of the other BS the man had going on in his personal life, boiled over.
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Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Mar 24, 2022 22:09:55 GMT -5
“Eight years ago I used offensive language during a conversation,” Hogan says in a statement. “It was unacceptable for me to have used that offensive language; there is no excuse for it; and I apologize for having done it.”
He goes on to say that “I believe very strongly that every person in the world is important and should not be treated differently based on race, gender, orientation, religious beliefs or otherwise. I am disappointed with myself that I used language that is offensive and inconsistent with my own beliefs.
“It is not who I am. I continue to work every day to improve as a person, and this matter is an important learning experience for me in that regard."
A portion of one of his many apologies.
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Post by Starshine on Mar 24, 2022 22:24:49 GMT -5
Actions, to me, speak louder than words. No workers or fans, or just random people like, flight attendants, doctors, wait staff, hotel staff, have come forward with Allegegations of racism. The man isn't perfect, and I do deeply understand the words that he said, hurt people, that POC who were fans, were crushed. I wish he's never uttered those words. But words spoken, when a man is at a low point, shouldn't define a man's whole life. You use the term 'actions' but the important actions are the things he said. You can't offset a bad action to other actions that never happened, that doesn't make any sense. Also in terms of actions, what tangible actions has he taken to make actual amends for this? He hasn't actually done anything, and a half assed non-apology doesn't really cut it, especially when he's in a position where he might be able to make some difference in race related discourse. The fact he also feels entitled to forgiveness shows he's not sincere in his remorse, otherwise he'd at least have an understanding of why so many were hurt. He's a racist, that's not debatable. The man said so himself, as well a lot of other things that support the claim. Also no one is saying this defines his whole life. But it's an important enough issue that it should be considered when measuring his cultural impact. A lot of people won't forget this ever happened, and they also won't forget that he tried to sweep it under the rug instead of actually working to make genuine amends.
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