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Post by Mayonnaise on Apr 3, 2022 17:07:58 GMT -5
My thoughts really is that they are an alternative. And they need to set themselves apart from what WWE does. Pro wrestling history with littered with promotions who wanted to be like WWE and they failed. WCW/NWA is the biggest reason why they could be a great alternative but also ruin themselves by being too much like WWE. The times when they tried to be different from the WWF they were more successful business and creative wise than when they tried to copy what the WWF was doing, no matter when it was the cartoonishly characters of late 80s to early 90s, or the Crash TV era, they were a lot less successful. TNA is another great example. AEW is the most fun show in wrestling. BUT I do not want them trying to be WWE. Because they try to copy what they do and the way they book, then it’s all over. That's where I am. I want different from WWE. WWE has lost me with their product as I don't care about what pop culture guy they can drag up or their attempts to fit in. I want something that wants to be wrestling and that is what AEW is to me. Yes that includes Danhausen and Orange Cassidy and Kris Statlander, who are fun but aren't being smashed over our heads or being made into some sort of pop culture rip off.
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Post by Mr Mario Mario on Apr 3, 2022 17:33:55 GMT -5
Its a way to expand your audience because if you get more kids interested then they’ll bug their parents to take them and kids just by their nature more often than not will go more for the wacky gimmicks rather than the work rate and then once you get them hooked they’ll appreciate the work rate guys too
So yeah I do think they could lean into it more but you can absolutely do it in a way that adults can enjoy too
Look at OC and Danhausen for example and how much crowds overall enjoy them and how much merch they sell
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Post by bob on Apr 3, 2022 17:42:35 GMT -5
I've mentioned this before but, I really feel like the higher-ups at AEW should go out of their way to read some of the "Aces High" interviews New Japan did with Hiroshi Tanahashi. They could also benefit from reading his book. In both, he talks in great detail about how he feels like a big part of what caused the NJPW resurgence was the fact that, after touring in Mexico, he figured out how to adapt his style and persona to become much more appealing to kids without looking too silly. I think AEW could take more than a few pages out of that playbook and help their appeal to a younger audience. That would create a lot more long-term sustainability for them as a promotion. Appealing to the "key demo" of 18-35 men is great for the short-term. Kids are your future demographically. uhhh ,kids grow up and then dont like the same things as before.... i mean WWE is showing you the results of that .... A lot of AEW fans were kids that watched WWE and then stopped
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Apr 3, 2022 17:49:23 GMT -5
It sounds like you want AEW to be more like WWE. Good news is - WWE already exists. AEW is supposed to be an alternative. It's a good thing that they cater to different audiences. That’s not true. If I wanted that, I’d insist AEW copy their problems too. This isn’t one of WWE’s flaws.
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Post by Dub H on Apr 3, 2022 17:52:09 GMT -5
It needs more Wacky...WAVING INFLATABLE ARM FLAILING TUBE MAN
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2022 21:00:07 GMT -5
This promotion booked an exploding barbed wire deathmatch.
Clearly they are targeting little kids for their audience.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2022 23:44:30 GMT -5
Comedy characters can work but only if they can get serious when the bell rings.
You're right though. They need more wacky characters and less "SERIOUS MMA WANNABE TOUGH GUYS!"
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Apr 3, 2022 23:49:41 GMT -5
Comedy characters can work but only if they can get serious when the bell rings. You're right though. They need more wacky characters and less "SERIOUS MMA WANNABE TOUGH GUYS!" Who does this in AEW? Seriously. Bobby Fish is literally one of the funniest dudes in AEW right now because of his boisterous match commentary and he's usually the one people point at for this. I feel like there aren't many people in AEW right now who are even doing a SERIOUS MMA gimmick, Shafir is one, but she's like... someone with an actual MMA background and presented as such in her style and her gimmick as "The Problem", because she wrestles unlike anyone else currently.
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Apr 3, 2022 23:51:13 GMT -5
This promotion booked an exploding barbed wire deathmatch. Clearly they are targeting little kids for their audience. A lot of kids do in fact watch them though, and are all in the crowds. Boys and Girls dressing themselves like Cassidy, Darby, and Thunder Rosa alike. Like we're not gonna pretend the Attitude Era wasn't full of kids watching the product right? I hope not, or else I don't exist
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2022 0:38:38 GMT -5
Comedy characters can work but only if they can get serious when the bell rings. You're right though. They need more wacky characters and less "SERIOUS MMA WANNABE TOUGH GUYS!" Who does this in AEW? Seriously. Bobby Fish is literally one of the funniest dudes in AEW right now because of his boisterous match commentary and he's usually the one people point at for this. I feel like there aren't many people in AEW right now who are even doing a SERIOUS MMA gimmick, Shafir is one, but she's like... someone with an actual MMA background and presented as such in her style and her gimmick as "The Problem", because she wrestles unlike anyone else currently. Off the top of my head... O Reilly Fish Garcia 2.0 Hager Wheeler Harwood Agogo I don't mean MMA guys specifically. I mean "regular guys with no gimmick beyond 'serious wrestler'" Most of these guys are boring as shit to watch. Especially to the casual fan.
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Post by Cyno on Apr 4, 2022 0:46:53 GMT -5
2.0? Serious wrestlers?
Huh?
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Post by ISO Mid Thigh Pull on Apr 4, 2022 0:57:05 GMT -5
2.0? Serious wrestlers? Huh? I could sorta see how someone could think that just going off their previous look/presentation if they hadn't caught a lot of their segments but post-Pokevolving in to Angelo Parker and Daddy Magic absolutely not. Dudes are full on ratmen.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Apr 4, 2022 1:06:37 GMT -5
I think it's a bit of an oversimplification to call FTR 'bland serious wrestleguys' but I think in general their act isn't really one meant to hook in the super casual know-nothing fan. Their whole schtick and where they find their success is in being a very tropey team who take advantage of the rules of tag matches to play some very classic tricks and serve as a throwback to tag team greats of a past era. They're a team that you learn to appreciate as you experience tag team wrestling and understand why they do what they're doing, and for a promotion that does absolutely want to appeal to hardcore wrestling fans, that's a gimmick with a very valuable place. Whatever balance they need to strike, overcorrecting and dumbing shit down would just bleed them the support they do have.
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Apr 4, 2022 1:10:43 GMT -5
I think it's a bit of an oversimplification to call FTR 'bland serious wrestleguys' but I think in general their act isn't really one meant to hook in the super casual know-nothing fan. Their whole schtick and where they find their success is in being a very tropey team who take advantage of the rules of tag matches to play some very classic tricks and serve as a throwback to tag team greats of a past era. They're a team that you learn to appreciate as you experience tag team wrestling and understand why they do what they're doing, and for a promotion that does absolutely want to appeal to hardcore wrestling fans, that's a gimmick with a very valuable place. Whatever balance they need to strike, overcorrecting and dumbing shit down would just bleed them the support they do have. I may make a thread about this sometime (it feels less necessary now that they've turned face), but I feel like FTR suffer from the commentators being too damn into their shtick. "Nostalgia-obsessed jerks who act like grumpy old men to all these new-fangled wrestlers who aren't serious enough for their liking" is a well-defined character and a natural foil that makes the zanier gimmicks work even better. But you'll never get half of that if you listen to the commentary team that just unironically praises their old school-ness, which is, y'know, kind of a core aspect of their heelishness.
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Post by Non Banjoble Tokens on Apr 4, 2022 1:21:39 GMT -5
How about a wrestler who yells "LEROY JENKINS!!!" on the mic and then runs into the ring crazily only to get destroyed in less than thirty seconds by their opponent?
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Post by Rave on Apr 4, 2022 1:32:32 GMT -5
2.0? Serious wrestlers? Huh? Yeah, I don't quite get this either. They've always been loudmouth doofs.
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Apr 4, 2022 2:03:45 GMT -5
Who does this in AEW? Seriously. Bobby Fish is literally one of the funniest dudes in AEW right now because of his boisterous match commentary and he's usually the one people point at for this. I feel like there aren't many people in AEW right now who are even doing a SERIOUS MMA gimmick, Shafir is one, but she's like... someone with an actual MMA background and presented as such in her style and her gimmick as "The Problem", because she wrestles unlike anyone else currently. Off the top of my head... O Reilly Fish Garcia 2.0 Hager Wheeler Harwood Agogo I don't mean MMA guys specifically. I mean "regular guys with no gimmick beyond 'serious wrestler'" Most of these guys are boring as shit to watch. Especially to the casual fan. - Kyle is a dork who air guitars any title he gets - Fish I already answered - Garcia's getting much more character thanks to JAS, I refer you to the Kangol Hat thread - 2.0 have never been "Serious tough guys" like... I don't know how that's even a question, they have always been presented as guys who can go, but goofs - Hager is a goon, he has always been a goon, he does MMA shit, but he absolutely is just like Biff from Back to the Future, he hasn't been SUPER SERIOUS in ages, look at how he dresses lmfao - Wheeler Yuta's a technical wrestler, and the crowds gone white hot for him the last two weeks for his technical wrestling and fire, it's working for him to be a young gun like this, it's sure working for the fans and he'll grow into his own all the further from it - Dax Harwood is an 80's throwback wrestler, since becoming a face he and Wheeler have also done a lot of cool new stuff because they're no longer working a heel story - Ogogo is a Boxer, an actual Olympic Boxer, and he's only been wrestling on DARK as of late more than likely to tune up his gimmick, but he's always been a sassy promo, he has more to him than super serious all the time. If you're a casual fan, fair enough, but these guys do actually develop over the course of shows and change things up and well... do more things outside of what you're describing them as. That's what they're supposed to do. Hell there were people here who admitted they didn't see anything in Yuta three weeks ago that are suddenly big fans of him, same with Garcia finding his dorky side in JAS... this is what wrestling's supposed to do, it's supposed to give wrestlers more than one layer to their presentation, and AEW's good at doing it imo.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Apr 4, 2022 4:08:10 GMT -5
I think it's a bit of an oversimplification to call FTR 'bland serious wrestleguys' but I think in general their act isn't really one meant to hook in the super casual know-nothing fan. Their whole schtick and where they find their success is in being a very tropey team who take advantage of the rules of tag matches to play some very classic tricks and serve as a throwback to tag team greats of a past era. They're a team that you learn to appreciate as you experience tag team wrestling and understand why they do what they're doing, and for a promotion that does absolutely want to appeal to hardcore wrestling fans, that's a gimmick with a very valuable place. Whatever balance they need to strike, overcorrecting and dumbing shit down would just bleed them the support they do have. I may make a thread about this sometime (it feels less necessary now that they've turned face), but I feel like FTR suffer from the commentators being too damn into their shtick. "Nostalgia-obsessed jerks who act like grumpy old men to all these new-fangled wrestlers who aren't serious enough for their liking" is a well-defined character and a natural foil that makes the zanier gimmicks work even better. But you'll never get half of that if you listen to the commentary team that just unironically praises their old school-ness, which is, y'know, kind of a core aspect of their heelishness. FTR is trash, man. I just can’t get into them at all. Maybe it’s that unironic constant hype, but they annoyed me in WWE too.
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Apr 4, 2022 4:11:10 GMT -5
I may make a thread about this sometime (it feels less necessary now that they've turned face), but I feel like FTR suffer from the commentators being too damn into their shtick. "Nostalgia-obsessed jerks who act like grumpy old men to all these new-fangled wrestlers who aren't serious enough for their liking" is a well-defined character and a natural foil that makes the zanier gimmicks work even better. But you'll never get half of that if you listen to the commentary team that just unironically praises their old school-ness, which is, y'know, kind of a core aspect of their heelishness. FTR is trash, man. I just can’t get into them at all. Maybe it’s that unironic constant hype, but they annoyed me in WWE too. They're far from trash, the match with the Briscoes this weekend proved that imo. If not for you that's fair, but they are hyped up for a reason, they're really good at what they do, and Dax especially is extremely unsung as far as singles matches have gone. This is from someone who thought their main roster run was mostly a dud (The Orton pairing should have went further)
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Apr 4, 2022 4:13:54 GMT -5
FTR is trash, man. I just can’t get into them at all. Maybe it’s that unironic constant hype, but they annoyed me in WWE too. They're far from trash, the match with the Briscoes this weekend proved that imo. If not for you that's fair, but they are hyped up for a reason, they're really good at what they do, and Dax especially is extremely unsung as far as singles matches have gone. This is from someone who thought their main roster run was mostly a dud (The Orton pairing should have went further) They’re not for me, sorry.
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