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Post by Feargus McReddit on May 21, 2022 22:47:21 GMT -5
I could not care less. WWE fires people during a pandemic despite making record profits by the dozens, just because. But people who WANT to leave, like Ali and Roddy, are held hostage just because someone else MIGHT use them better. So why should I care if someone turns the table on WWE? Especially when WWE seems to be trying to pit talent against each other as well? That’s just a flat out toxic work environment. Yeah, not being funny, you expect me to sympathize with those in power when a lot of professionalism on their end is disguised as “business”. Sasha and Naomi leaving isn’t going to make a difference to their bottom line in the same way 99% of the roster leaving wouldn’t affect their bottom line because that’s how they’ve structured their business so doing all this just makes them look, at best, ridiculous. And I don’t care if it doesn’t affect them a lick, it further makes me not want to watch and, as established, I don’t matter, nor do none of the fan base at this point. None of us are multi-million dollar TV executives or Middle Eastern leaders. |
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2022 23:13:38 GMT -5
I could not care less. WWE fires people during a pandemic despite making record profits by the dozens, just because. But people who WANT to leave, like Ali and Roddy, are held hostage just because someone else MIGHT use them better. So why should I care if someone turns the table on WWE? Especially when WWE seems to be trying to pit talent against each other as well? That’s just a flat out toxic work environment. Yeah, not being funny, you expect me to sympathize with those in power when a lot of professionalism on their end is disguised as “business”. Sasha and Naomi leaving isn’t going to make a difference to their bottom line in the same way 99% of the roster leaving wouldn’t affect their bottom line because that’s how they’ve structured their business so doing all this just makes them look, at best, ridiculous. And I don’t care if it doesn’t affect them a lick, it further makes me not want to watch and, as established, I don’t matter, nor do none of the fan base at this point. None of us are multi-million dollar TV executives or Middle Eastern leaders. The greatest swindle corporations ever pulled was convincing workers to feel guilty for screwing their employer, whereas "it's just business" when they do it to them. "Professionalism" is just a word that's been co-opted to mean "be our doormat and like it". Don't try to use the millions the talent get paid as an excuse, either. Yeah, some of them make millions. Many do not. Even those that make millions are only a fraction compared to the suits in the WWE. |
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on May 21, 2022 23:16:21 GMT -5
At a point it's not even about creative; the fact people don't have the right to quit their jobs but WWE gets to control their lives is demented and I don't see how that's defensible. You can't work a second job in another field. You can't cut your hair without permission. You have to drive yourself to every show and get no employee benefits. Your merch benefits and likeness rights are getting swallowed up in the name of flat downsides that cut out any royalties to just be a direct sum. Oh but they can just decide to let you go whenever they want, no problems asked. You want to let go? No, sorry, we're putting a freeze on your contract until you come back and make every date we tell you to and we'll openly badmouth you in the press.
Like at what point does the degree of gross power imbalance set in and the double standard end?
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Celexa Bliss
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Post by Celexa Bliss on May 21, 2022 23:20:40 GMT -5
Man, f*** this company. I don't know how anyone can defend this business practice I mean, shit like this is among the reasons I stopped watching, save for PLAs. Granted, I was on the company's side until the suspension announcement. But enough is enough. Fire your talent or don't fire them, but this "holding them hostage because we can't let them go to the competition" method is bullshit. |
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2022 23:39:17 GMT -5
Yeah, not being funny, you expect me to sympathize with those in power when a lot of professionalism on their end is disguised as “business”. Sasha and Naomi leaving isn’t going to make a difference to their bottom line in the same way 99% of the roster leaving wouldn’t affect their bottom line because that’s how they’ve structured their business so doing all this just makes them look, at best, ridiculous. And I don’t care if it doesn’t affect them a lick, it further makes me not want to watch and, as established, I don’t matter, nor do none of the fan base at this point. None of us are multi-million dollar TV executives or Middle Eastern leaders. The greatest swindle corporations ever pulled was convincing workers to feel guilty for screwing their employer, whereas "it's just business" when they do it to them. "Professionalism" is just a word that's been co-opted to mean "be our doormat and like it". Don't try to use the millions the talent get paid as an excuse, either. Yeah, some of them make millions. Many do not. Even those that make millions are only a fraction compared to the suits in the WWE. Okay but this entire argument is preposterous because she is playing a character she does not own and willingly signed on to do so. People are putting way too much free will into a company that never had it to begin with. This isn't an improv show or a collaboration of artists. They are the paid actors in this situation and do not have the luxuries to act as freely as people on the "independent" scene when it comes to their own material. I just do not see why this is seemingly overlooked by the supporters...So far it's all just how morally bankrupt this company is and I agree damn near most of the time but there has to be some freakin responsibility for being unreliable because there is no other industry where this behavior is supported. I think we all and hell maybe even today's workers are way too caught up in fantasy booking and romanticism that we forget that WWE is one man's never-ending stage play and always has been. The same director with a rotating cast of actors. That free will and romantic creativity exists on the indie scene and in a large part in AEW (they cater to what fan ultimately wants) but has never in WWE unless Vince wills it. |
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markymark
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Post by markymark on May 21, 2022 23:40:12 GMT -5
Ronda turned out to be the local woman?
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Post by joeiscool on May 21, 2022 23:42:29 GMT -5
At a point it's not even about creative; the fact people don't have the right to quit their jobs but WWE gets to control their lives is demented and I don't see how that's defensible. You can't work a second job in another field. You can't cut your hair without permission. You have to drive yourself to every show and get no employee benefits. Your merch benefits and likeness rights are getting swallowed up in the name of flat downsides that cut out any royalties to just be a direct sum. Oh but they can just decide to let you go whenever they want, no problems asked. You want to let go? No, sorry, we're putting a freeze on your contract until you come back and make every date we tell you to and we'll openly badmouth you in the press. Like at what point does the degree of gross power imbalance set in and the double standard end? I mean this is a lot like a 360 music contract. There's up's and downs to these contracts... Both strive off the fact that it's really rare to make a living off of music/wrestling. |
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Post by markymark on May 21, 2022 23:44:19 GMT -5
Coming from Vince, not shocking...
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cjb01: Limited Edition Item!
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Post by cjb01: Limited Edition Item! on May 21, 2022 23:46:54 GMT -5
Ronda turned out to be the local woman?
It's the thing where I'm still perplexed that people think this lone decision is the reason Sasha Banks walked... there's been tense friction with her and this company since before Summerslam. She'd been seldom used since then, was tossed out of the Rumble pretty damn early, among other things. There's an aspect being presented that she has a job and is being paid to play a character... but if you are burnt the f*** out? I don't blame her for walking out, especially if that's the only thing she felt like she could do at this point. I just have no sympathy for a company as immorally oblivious as this one is at this point if workers get tired of their shit. I personally don't even care about fantasy booking or if Sasha or Naomi ever wrestle somewhere else again... I care about their mental health and well being, and they weren't getting it there, just like other wrestlers who have spoken about how WWE ground them to the nub with their "creative decisions". |
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Post by cjb01: Limited Edition Item! on May 21, 2022 23:48:09 GMT -5
Coming from Vince, not shocking...
But don't worry, there's someone out there still convinced this is a work No, WWE's just that petty, and we've seen this before. They're trying to send a statement out so no one else tries what Sasha and Naomi did. How long this goes is the real question before WWE just lets them walk, cause they ain't coming back. |
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2022 23:48:26 GMT -5
Coming from Vince, not shocking...
I do not support these situations if you were keeping them employed however. This and the whitewashing that they always do should not take place until the employees contract is terminated in full...There is absolutely no way to justify freezing someone out in fear like that. |
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cjb01: Limited Edition Item!
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Post by cjb01: Limited Edition Item! on May 21, 2022 23:51:05 GMT -5
Coming from Vince, not shocking...
I do not support these situations if you were keeping them employed however. This and the whitewashing that they always do should not take place until the employees contract is terminated in full...There is absolutely no way to justify freezing someone out in fear like that. It's one thing when they're fired, but the public admonishing, the "remove them from the opening", making them lose money and freezing their contracts instead of just outright firing them to try and prove a weird f***ing point, is why no one is going to take WWE's side here Even if they have SOME sort of point... they quickly remind you why it doesn't matter when they just turn into f***ing cartoon villains lol. |
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Post by joeiscool on May 21, 2022 23:53:36 GMT -5
However it's weird this revolves around the booking of a match. I feel like if it was about an unsafe work practice or something that was actually demeaning I would feel like they were being treated unfairly. The fact it's because they are being asked to wrestle in a different storyline than the one they wanted is so hard to empathize with them. Like you signed up to be booked by vince mchmon how am i supposed to be mad that vince booked you?
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2022 0:00:48 GMT -5
I do not support these situations if you were keeping them employed however. This and the whitewashing that they always do should not take place until the employees contract is terminated in full...There is absolutely no way to justify freezing someone out in fear like that. It's one thing when they're fired, but the public admonishing, the "remove them from the opening", making them lose money and freezing their contracts instead of just outright firing them to try and prove a weird f***ing point, is why no one is going to take WWE's side here Even if they have SOME sort of point... they quickly remind you why it doesn't matter when they just turn into f***ing cartoon villains lol. I am all for bringing them back after suspension and doing shit all with them until their contract expires or releasing them but not completely freezing them into a state of panic. These are WWE's tv shows and "Sasha Banks" is WWE's property and the scary thing is we live in a world where Mercedes and Sasha are now one and the same. This issue is across the board in wrestling because of the instant access of these peoples lives all of the characters have blended and WWE still tries to separate that. Until they don't. Then they do. At the end of the day: I certainly wouldn't write my TV shows to include a character who is being played by an actor I cannot trust to do the business I am paying them to do...and neither would you. WWE and wrestling in general is in a very weird situation where these people are literally becoming these characters due to overexposure with the fans and there is no separating them. |
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2022 0:29:12 GMT -5
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on May 22, 2022 0:43:43 GMT -5
At a point it's not even about creative; the fact people don't have the right to quit their jobs but WWE gets to control their lives is demented and I don't see how that's defensible. You can't work a second job in another field. You can't cut your hair without permission. You have to drive yourself to every show and get no employee benefits. Your merch benefits and likeness rights are getting swallowed up in the name of flat downsides that cut out any royalties to just be a direct sum. Oh but they can just decide to let you go whenever they want, no problems asked. You want to let go? No, sorry, we're putting a freeze on your contract until you come back and make every date we tell you to and we'll openly badmouth you in the press. Like at what point does the degree of gross power imbalance set in and the double standard end? I mean this is a lot like a 360 music contract. There's up's and downs to these contracts... Both strive off the fact that it's really rare to make a living off of music/wrestling. Yeah, the music industry is also unbelievably vile with the contracts it puts out, and at the same core there's similar issues. Both industries are super exploitative, and there's lots of ugly parts to contracts, but the dark side is that the ugly parts are always seem as things that won't happen. Musicians and wrestlers both get gassed up by management with promises and ideas and insistence they'll be big stars and none of those ugly side effects are going to be an issue because the company is behind them and they'll be a success. Companies with all the money and leverage put these contracts in front of people that are absolutely not okay, but nobody has the means to challenge them when the ugly sides come up. People have been angry about the music industry and demanding change from the inside for a while now too. |
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2022 0:50:18 GMT -5
I mean this is a lot like a 360 music contract. There's up's and downs to these contracts... Both strive off the fact that it's really rare to make a living off of music/wrestling. Yeah, the music industry is also unbelievably vile with the contracts it puts out, and at the same core there's similar issues. Both industries are super exploitative, and there's lots of ugly parts to contracts, but the dark side is that the ugly parts are always seem as things that won't happen. Musicians and wrestlers both get gassed up by management with promises and ideas and insistence they'll be big stars and none of those ugly side effects are going to be an issue because the company is behind them and they'll be a success. Companies with all the money and leverage put these contracts in front of people that are absolutely not okay, but nobody has the means to challenge them when the ugly sides come up. People have been angry about the music industry and demanding change from the inside for a while now too. Absolutely agree and that is why a situation like Bruce, Vince, and Nick flying in as fast as possible landing on Cody and offering him the world takes place. That isn't a normal procedure for hiring an employee whose contract with his current employer just expired. |
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Blade
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Post by Blade on May 22, 2022 3:05:58 GMT -5
I understand the common nature to side with the person over the company but no one will convince me that walking out over creative (and not a breach of contract on WWE's part in negligence, sexual harassment etc) is justifiable in a performing arts industry whether these people get paid hourly, salary, or in food stamps. You do not just walk off the damn job because you did not get your way. "Sasha Banks" is WWE intellectual property and she absolutely has written documents to perform as that character and wholeheartedly agreed to do. Hell if an actor walks away or has a dispute 9 out of 10 times they kill off the character in a tv series and move on. Fans get so caught up in the emotional aspect of what they believe these wrestlers deserve from a creative standpoint and just how they feel about the workers in general that they fail to realize this is still a job and not just a passion play for the people involved. If legit reasons other than creative come up then those should absolutely be taken into account but this social media positioning of them as martyrs or the lesser of two evils is frustrating and makes me pretty upset at them as a fan. I am not even trying to defend WWE intentionally as they will do what WWE does to benefit WWE. The fact that we are surprised by it but not shocked is almost funny in itself. I just simply do not defend abandoning post. Some people have used the blindsided releases of WWE to justify this and it's actually not the same either considering their pay does not just stop most times...The entire 90-day period IS that paid transition period even if it's designed to cool them off professionally. 1) We do not, in fact, know this was just over creative. 2) If it was, f*** WWE anyway. 3) No, seriously, f*** WWE anyway. I was a professional actor for a decade and if I had ever been treated the way WWE treats their "independent contractors" I would have walked out. And I could do that, because I was actually an independent contractor.
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Post by cornettesracket on May 22, 2022 3:17:30 GMT -5
I think we all know what we are waiting to see though. It’s how natalya can find a way to tell us who her uncles were.
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Post by doinkmark on May 22, 2022 4:07:27 GMT -5
I understand the common nature to side with the person over the company but no one will convince me that walking out over creative (and not a breach of contract on WWE's part in negligence, sexual harassment etc) is justifiable in a performing arts industry whether these people get paid hourly, salary, or in food stamps. You do not just walk off the damn job because you did not get your way. "Sasha Banks" is WWE intellectual property and she absolutely has written documents to perform as that character and wholeheartedly agreed to do. Hell if an actor walks away or has a dispute 9 out of 10 times they kill off the character in a tv series and move on. Fans get so caught up in the emotional aspect of what they believe these wrestlers deserve from a creative standpoint and just how they feel about the workers in general that they fail to realize this is still a job and not just a passion play for the people involved. If legit reasons other than creative come up then those should absolutely be taken into account but this social media positioning of them as martyrs or the lesser of two evils is frustrating and makes me pretty upset at them as a fan. I am not even trying to defend WWE intentionally as they will do what WWE does to benefit WWE. The fact that we are surprised by it but not shocked is almost funny in itself. I just simply do not defend abandoning post. Some people have used the blindsided releases of WWE to justify this and it's actually not the same either considering their pay does not just stop most times...The entire 90-day period IS that paid transition period even if it's designed to cool them off professionally. 1) We do not, in fact, know this was just over creative. 2) If it was, f*** WWE anyway. 3) No, seriously, f*** WWE anyway. I was a professional actor for a decade and if I had ever been treated the way WWE treats their "independent contractors" I would have walked out. And I could do that, because I was actually an independent contractor.
What were you in? Just curious. Now that you mention acting, I wonder if that was part of it for Sasha? She does Hollywood stuff and says to herself "Oh, I could be treated THIS way instead?" And is suddenly less willing to deal with WWE. |
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