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Post by Hit Girl on Jul 22, 2022 11:53:14 GMT -5
"Dany kind of forgot about the Iron Fleet" When they turned in that script, that's the moment HBO should have fired them.
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Jul 22, 2022 12:01:19 GMT -5
"Dany kind of forgot about the Iron Fleet" When they turned in that script, that's the moment HBO should have fired them. When they pitched Sansa getting raped and Stannis burning his Daughter, that's the moment HBO should have fired them.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jul 22, 2022 12:42:16 GMT -5
When they turned in that script, that's the moment HBO should have fired them. When they pitched Sansa getting raped and Stannis burning his Daughter, that's the moment HBO should have fired them. Nothing says 'the show is in good hands' like adding more rape
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Post by Nr1Humanoid on Jul 22, 2022 12:53:55 GMT -5
At this point, for Martin to finish the novels HE would have to become a zombie.
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Post by Larryhausen on Jul 22, 2022 13:02:41 GMT -5
Meh, I still enjoy the last two seasons(especially when you binge the entire show front to back) and I'll be watching the hell outta House of the Dragon, and I'll most likely enjoy that as well.
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Jul 22, 2022 13:15:25 GMT -5
When they pitched Sansa getting raped and Stannis burning his Daughter, that's the moment HBO should have fired them. Nothing says 'the show is in good hands' like adding more rape And having her say that it made her stronger.
I wonder if I could borrow Peter Dinklage's slapping hand.
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Post by EP 54 is banned from Collision on Jul 22, 2022 13:17:40 GMT -5
There are two sorts of writer: the first one is the most common one. They write out a plot outline and what major events they want to happen then write the story, and their characters do what is necessary to go throught the plot. This is fast and effective, but the downside is that if you're not careful there is a tendency for characters to have out of character moments, there are unlikey coincidences or inconveniences are forgotten in the name of getting the characters in the right place at the right time to have the plot go where you want it. If handled well it works great, handled badly it can be a mess of "why the hell would he do that, where did they come from, and if she's so scared of water why is she on a boat?"
George is the second type. These writers create a scenario and create a bunch of characters and have them interact. This means that characters are way more consistent, if Bob would never go to Sandra's wedding, he simply won't go even if it would be hella convenient to the author for him to show up there. But it's slow. And the more complex the situation the slower it is. Imagine having a large gathering of fleshed out characters with their own foibles and motivations and having to work out how each one of them is thinking and how'd they act when there's all these complex actions and past encounters to take account of.
GoT is complex, and it got more complex every book. It's no wonder he's grinding to a halt. I know there was supposed to be a time skip at some pint, but George couldn't do it. He couldn't arbitrarily place the characters in different places around the world wihout him asking himself "why is this person there, how did they get there, what has happened to this character in the intervening years?" so he had to write his way through it, and ended up with no time skip and an extra book.
Any so what happened with the end of the TV show? They took a series based on deeply fleshed out characters who were written taking into account how they would interact with each other and the world, and gave it to a bunch of type 1 writers, who didn't care as much about the characters as long as the plot went go.
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Jul 22, 2022 13:36:49 GMT -5
Fans were def hoping Cersei got fried like Varys did I'm torn on that one. While I think she got off easy, there was something quite poetic about her being trapped, terrified and begging for her life to the only person who ever really loved her, and knowing they were both about to die anyway. Being executed by dragonfire is almost too noble an end for her. I was expecting Jamie in that part to be Arya faceshifting again because she deserved to actually get killed by someone in a satisfying way, and nothing else about Jamie in those last 2 episodes made sense either.
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Post by SmashTV on Jul 22, 2022 14:06:09 GMT -5
"Dany kind of forgot about the Iron Fleet" When they turned in that script, that's the moment HBO should have fired them. There were lots of moments in the script that indicated it was going downhill. Soldiers being referred to as ‘guys’ instead of ‘men’, Tyrion saying to Vaerys ‘If I have another idea like that, punch me in the face.’ Lines like that stood out like sore thumbs, and it was clear the writers weren’t tightening the scripts like they should.
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Post by Gerard Gerard on Jul 22, 2022 14:31:03 GMT -5
I'm of the opinion that once he made his HBO money he mentally checked out of the entire thing. There's dragging your feet, and there's this. He's got no excuse to get mad when he's been promising the f***ing book every year for around a decade now. He's never going to finish it, and I think the best hope is once he dies a ghost writer will do it, and they'll claim they're working of his almost finish scripts, or something like that. But we're never getting "his vision" if there even is one anymore. Honestly, I didn't even mind Season 8 compared to most everyone else, quality debates aside, because at least they actually delivered a f***ing end. He's pretty clear that he doesn't want anyone touching ASOIAF in the event of his passing, so anything in that universe by another writer is likely generations off. There is just about no hope we're ever going to see an ending — which would be fine, if they weren't such good books. I feel that gets lost in a lot of these discussions, the book series is a phenomenal achievement and the fact that people still care even after a decade waiting is huge testament to their quality. winteriscoming.net/2020/04/24/what-happens-if-george-r-r-martin-doesnt-finish-the-winds-of-winter/
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Post by horseface on Jul 22, 2022 14:32:19 GMT -5
I'm so sick of his pity party he is always throwing. Like others have said, it's clear he mentally checked out of the series once the HBO show proved to be a hit.
The showrunners were not the right people to be continuing the story beyond where it had already been written. It's clear they didn't want to either but were too egotistical to admit that and maybe hand it off to someone who wasn't burnt out and over their head. From what I understand HBO was willing to give them pretty much whatever they wanted to work with to end the series right but they were like nah let's get this over with.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jul 22, 2022 15:09:26 GMT -5
He doesn't owe anyone anything. If he decided to say "f*** it, no more stories" tomorrow, it's his universe.
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Post by Toates Madhackrviper on Jul 22, 2022 15:19:57 GMT -5
When they turned in that script, that's the moment HBO should have fired them. When they pitched Sansa getting raped and Stannis burning his Daughter, that's the moment HBO should have fired them. Stannis burning his daughter is 100% going to happen in the books if they ever get published. Its been where his arc has been headed forever. People who think Stannis is a good guy really aren't paying attention.
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Jul 22, 2022 15:24:10 GMT -5
When they pitched Sansa getting raped and Stannis burning his Daughter, that's the moment HBO should have fired them. Stannis burning his daughter is 100% going to happen in the books if they ever get published. Its been where his arc has been headed forever. People who think Stannis is a good guy really aren't paying attention. He would never do that, he has gone and stated that if he should fall in battle, than Davos and his Army would continue on and put Shireen on the Throne.
The only reason he wants The Throne is because he believes he is the only man who is capable of fixing the Realm. He doesn't believe its his right and power hungry like they claimed, it's because he sees himself as the only one capable of Uniting Westeros against The Others.
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Toates Madhackrviper
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Post by Toates Madhackrviper on Jul 22, 2022 15:25:43 GMT -5
Stannis burning his daughter is 100% going to happen in the books if they ever get published. Its been where his arc has been headed forever. People who think Stannis is a good guy really aren't paying attention. He would never do that, he has gone and stated that if he should fall in battle, than Davos and his Army would continue on and put Shireen on the Throne. The only reason he wants The Throne is because he believes he is the only man who is capable of fixing the Realm. He doesn't believe its his right and power hungry like they claimed, it's because he sees himself as the only one capable of Uniting Westeros against The Others.
*sigh* The myth of Stannis the good and noble hero continues I guess.
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Post by Johnny B. Decent on Jul 22, 2022 15:53:16 GMT -5
This is just me replying to myself, but now that I think about it.....it is rather odd how static Westeros is from a cultural and linguistic standpoint, no? Although Martin himself says the in-story conception of time is way off, it's still been at least one or two thousand years since the Andals have fully settled Westeros, and yet, the same exact names, social traditions, culture has remained the exact same everywhere, even Dorne has adopted quite a few of their aspects.
Like, even when Rome fell IRL, the Germanic tribes who took over the West had their own differences.
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Post by chrom on Jul 22, 2022 16:11:17 GMT -5
He would never do that, he has gone and stated that if he should fall in battle, than Davos and his Army would continue on and put Shireen on the Throne. The only reason he wants The Throne is because he believes he is the only man who is capable of fixing the Realm. He doesn't believe its his right and power hungry like they claimed, it's because he sees himself as the only one capable of Uniting Westeros against The Others.
*sigh* The myth of Stannis the good and noble hero continues I guess. Justin Massey: Your Grace, if you are dead
Stannis Baratheon: You will avenge my death, and seat my daughter on the Iron Throne. Or die in the attempt.
Justin Massey: On my honor as a knight, you have my word
Straight from his mouth himself.
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Post by Toates Madhackrviper on Jul 22, 2022 16:24:07 GMT -5
*sigh* The myth of Stannis the good and noble hero continues I guess. Justin Massey: Your Grace, if you are dead
Stannis Baratheon: You will avenge my death, and seat my daughter on the Iron Throne. Or die in the attempt. Justin Massey: On my honor as a knight, you have my word Straight from his mouth himself.
I'm not denying that that happened. I just also think that that doesn't mean that Stannis actually gives a f*** about Shireen (he pretty openly doesn't and is a shitty father), just about him being the "rightful" heir of the throne (and therefor if he dies, Shireen becomes the rightful heir to the throne). I think he also thinks he's the right person for the job, like you said, but I think his priority is the "rightful heir" thing because Stannis is obsessed with that sort of thing. So I absolutely believe that he would sacrifice Shireen for what he sees as the greater good. And with Melisandre being in his head on top of that, and I think thats where the story is going. I also think that the "Royal blood = magic" plotpoint has basically no point if Stannis doesnt sacrifice Shireen, so it sort of has to happen. I think Stannis is a great f***ing character, one of the most interesting in the books, but I think a lot of his fans are misguided about who he is. Sort of the same way I feel about Snape. And I also think that the whole "show Stannis sucks" thing is mostly driven by the show being actually a fairly honest representation of who Stannis always was in the books and his fans not really liking that reality. For the record, I'm not otherwise a D&D defender at all, thats not my motive. I just think this about Stannis specifically.
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Post by Hit Girl on Jul 22, 2022 16:32:24 GMT -5
The show should have ended with the whole world burning, and only one survivor, who is strongly impied, but never explicitly stated to be Sauron.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2022 17:26:37 GMT -5
He doesn't owe anyone anything. If he decided to say "f*** it, no more stories" tomorrow, it's his universe. That was true when he was writing as a hobby. The day he signed a publishing contract it ceased to be true (his publishers must be hopping mad that if AWOW is ever released it'll sell a fraction of what it should have done). Especially so when Westeros became a massive franchise that had other people's livelihoods from Kit Harrington and Emilia Clarke right down to the tea lady on set dependent on it. It beggars belief he had a four book head start when the contract was signed (before a single script was written or a single audition held) and even after a slowdown his head start was five books when episode one aired. The decline of the show beginning almost the second they outpaced the books material is certainly not a coincidence. At the end of the day author isn't his main job. He is an editor and a screenwriter mainly. ASOIAF was his hobby and sometimes one doesn't feel like doing their hobby (unusual for this feeling to last a decade but still...). JK Rowling and Steve Erikson were able to deliver their series' on time as they see writing as the same as we see our jobs. They sit at the computer at 9 and don't walk away until 5. GRRM as a screenwriter works better in a team and he's been working in that style for 50 years and was simply unable to change and work in an author like solo way. If I was him I'd have outsourced the series to Brandon Sanderson or Joe Abercrombie who both would have done a decent job and jumped at the chance.
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