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Post by The Rick Jericho on Aug 3, 2022 18:05:48 GMT -5
Came to say this, surprised to not see on the poll.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2022 18:16:23 GMT -5
Came to say this, surprised to not see on the poll. Probably to give the other women a chance lol. But anyone that has watched Io at her absoloute best just knows how flat out god tier she is with less than handful on the planet that are knowingly able to match her and two of them are her Threedom sisters. But most of all it is her consistency that woman does not have bad chemistry with anyone..hell Io gave Cora Jade the best 2min in ring she had ever had up to that point a few months ago and Shotzi still hasn't had a better match than the one she had with Io.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2022 19:06:23 GMT -5
Bayley, Becky, Belair
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Aug 3, 2022 19:09:37 GMT -5
Asuka it's not close.
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msc
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,562
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Post by msc on Aug 3, 2022 19:22:15 GMT -5
Of that list, Asuka. Of the company, Io. But goddamn they have such a great women's roster in that company. More hopeful it gets a chance than I was a month ago.
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Post by AwamoriRock on Aug 3, 2022 19:30:14 GMT -5
One god one Sarray
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kidkamikaze10
Dennis Stamp
Trying to think of a new avatar
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Post by kidkamikaze10 on Aug 3, 2022 19:37:53 GMT -5
Because NXT UK probably shouldn't exist, I totally forgot Meiko is considered a WWE wrestler.
Change my answer, it's Meiko Satomura.
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Post by King Devitt and the Woke Mob on Aug 3, 2022 19:49:01 GMT -5
Asuka, then Iyo.
Now please give me that match Daddy H.
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Post by theironyuppie on Aug 3, 2022 21:57:41 GMT -5
Not listed but Io Shirai I would say is the best they have if you are just talking about in ring work. Of those listed I would say Asuka. Everything she does looks great and she doesn't botch much. Doesn't really have a weakness that I can think as far as her in ring goes. Liv, Alexa, and Shayna shouldn't be in the discussion. Liv is alright but nowhere near the level of most of the others listed. Alexa has always been more of a character driven wrestler. Shayna is good but also boring and not as good as 4HW, Asuka, Rhea, and Bianca. Charlotte, Becky, and Sasha are all great but have their flaws. Charlotte is probably the most talented of the three but her selling can be poor and she can be selfish at times to the detriment of the match. Sasha on the other hand sells really well and can do a lot but her strikes are weak and she lacks believability. Becky is a good storyteller and is great at putting a match together but can be clunky and sloppy at times. Bayley is kind of the Jill of all trades. Doesn't have the glaring strengths of the other 4HW but unlike the rest really doesn't have any holes in her game either. However I think the lack great strengths keeps her below Asuka and Io and on par with the other 4HW. Bianca is the most physically gifted and is really good but is still rough around the edges and not as polished as 4HW, Asuka, and Io. Rhea I actually find kind of underrated. She doesn't get a lot of flak and is generally considered good but at the same time doesn't really get brought up much it seems like in these discussions when she probably should. Like I think she's better then Bianca despite not getting pushed as hard. I think in a year or two of more experience she'll be better then the 4HW as her all around game is better then all of them. She has better technique then Bianca, is a better natural athlete then Sasha/Becky/Bayley, and sells better then Charlotte.
The interesting thing with Charlotte is that she's probably got the deepest catalogue of great and/or important matches going all the way back to her Natalya match in 2014, but at the same time, you can tell when she's unmotivated and it's hard to deny that she's had a few shockers, with the Lacey matches and that trainwreck with Nia last year coming to mind. (She also had a bad one with Carmella at Backlash 2018, but she was working hurt and their SD matches later in the year were much better.) With the odd exception of her underwhelming Mania match with Ronda this year, she's also someone who really makes matches stand out on the big stage.
As for Bianca, she's definitely talented, but I think she's helped by being on such a strong push for so long and WWE's match structures virtually always playing to her strengths. In the KOD she's got possibly the best finisher in WWE, as it's got a unique setup, looks good, and has never been kicked out of in NXT or WWE. However, she's not a particularly convincing seller (her bumping is getting better but can be samey), and sometimes comes off a bit mechanical in the ways she moves from spot-to-spot. Sasha on the other hand is great at bumping/selling, and obviously has had plenty of strong matches, but her heavily knee-based offense can get repetitive right down to multiple meteoras per match. Becky's lack of athleticism can definitely be evident at times, but at the same time its usually overcome by her connecting to the crowd.
I think Rhea's just waiting on that sustained push, really. She had the title run last year but it didn't get built up due to the chaos in the Raw women's division, and ever since losing the title her booking's been stop-start. She got a great showcase in the 45-minute gauntlet match on Raw earlier this year, but that was to put Bianca over and then it was straight back to the tag team division. That said, I think it's only a matter of time now and she's already got a very impressive catalogue for someone so young (one of her best runs was actually after losing the NXT title, with everything from her cage match with Mercedes to the NXT TV match with Io to the two vs Raquel), and even somehow got a good match out of Nia Jax last year. Her versatility' s really something too, as she's obviously a powerhouse but is also athletic and sells very convincingly.
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Post by mistery on Aug 3, 2022 22:33:40 GMT -5
Not listed but Io Shirai I would say is the best they have if you are just talking about in ring work. Of those listed I would say Asuka. Everything she does looks great and she doesn't botch much. Doesn't really have a weakness that I can think as far as her in ring goes. Liv, Alexa, and Shayna shouldn't be in the discussion. Liv is alright but nowhere near the level of most of the others listed. Alexa has always been more of a character driven wrestler. Shayna is good but also boring and not as good as 4HW, Asuka, Rhea, and Bianca. Charlotte, Becky, and Sasha are all great but have their flaws. Charlotte is probably the most talented of the three but her selling can be poor and she can be selfish at times to the detriment of the match. Sasha on the other hand sells really well and can do a lot but her strikes are weak and she lacks believability. Becky is a good storyteller and is great at putting a match together but can be clunky and sloppy at times. Bayley is kind of the Jill of all trades. Doesn't have the glaring strengths of the other 4HW but unlike the rest really doesn't have any holes in her game either. However I think the lack great strengths keeps her below Asuka and Io and on par with the other 4HW. Bianca is the most physically gifted and is really good but is still rough around the edges and not as polished as 4HW, Asuka, and Io. Rhea I actually find kind of underrated. She doesn't get a lot of flak and is generally considered good but at the same time doesn't really get brought up much it seems like in these discussions when she probably should. Like I think she's better then Bianca despite not getting pushed as hard. I think in a year or two of more experience she'll be better then the 4HW as her all around game is better then all of them. She has better technique then Bianca, is a better natural athlete then Sasha/Becky/Bayley, and sells better then Charlotte.
The interesting thing with Charlotte is that she's probably got the deepest catalogue of great and/or important matches going all the way back to her Natalya match in 2014, but at the same time, you can tell when she's unmotivated and it's hard to deny that she's had a few shockers, with the Lacey matches and that trainwreck with Nia last year coming to mind. (She also had a bad one with Carmella at Backlash 2018, but she was working hurt and their SD matches later in the year were much better.) With the odd exception of her underwhelming Mania match with Ronda this year, she's also someone who really makes matches stand out on the big stage.
As for Bianca, she's definitely talented, but I think she's helped by being on such a strong push for so long and WWE's match structures virtually always playing to her strengths. In the KOD she's got possibly the best finisher in WWE, as it's got a unique setup, looks good, and has never been kicked out of in NXT or WWE. However, she's not a particularly convincing seller (her bumping is getting better but can be samey), and sometimes comes off a bit mechanical in the ways she moves from spot-to-spot. Sasha on the other hand is great at bumping/selling, and obviously has had plenty of strong matches, but her heavily knee-based offense can get repetitive right down to multiple meteoras per match. Becky's lack of athleticism can definitely be evident at times, but at the same time its usually overcome by her connecting to the crowd.
I think Rhea's just waiting on that sustained push, really. She had the title run last year but it didn't get built up due to the chaos in the Raw women's division, and ever since losing the title her booking's been stop-start. She got a great showcase in the 45-minute gauntlet match on Raw earlier this year, but that was to put Bianca over and then it was straight back to the tag team division. That said, I think it's only a matter of time now and she's already got a very impressive catalogue for someone so young (one of her best runs was actually after losing the NXT title, with everything from her cage match with Mercedes to the NXT TV match with Io to the two vs Raquel), and even somehow got a good match out of Nia Jax last year. Her versatility' s really something too, as she's obviously a powerhouse but is also athletic and sells very convincingly.
I would argue Rhea's biggest problem is that she's attached to The Judgement Day right now. Which is a dead in the water faction, with their credibility basically being one very small step above Retribution's. Bianca is a great wrestler, but when a match falls apart, she gets really sloppy and lost. Also I've noticed she's picked up the habit of running around and twirling her ponytail at the same time again, which looks stupid. Charlotte is by far the most selfish of the three you mentioned (in that she really doesn't like to sell for women she sees as "below her"), in that when she has an off night, it's REALLY bad. She's either good or really bad, there's no inbetween, and her booking is pretty harmful to the women she's feuding with, outside of a couple of exceptions. I don't think there's been a single woman in the company who has lost a feud to her and came out of it fairly unscathed. Their stock takes a massive hit. Iyo is the best in ring worker in the division, as she'll sell her ass off, and has had very few actual bad matches in WWE. I would argue her Bianca match on RAW this past Monday was one of the weakest, but that was mainly because the agenting sucked, and instead of showcasing Iyo like what they should have done, it was more just Bianca countering almost everything effortlessly and getting the spotlight. Would have served WWE better to just have Iyo squash a local talent (maybe toy around with them to extend the match slightly), or someone like Dana.
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ppl591
ALF
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Post by ppl591 on Aug 3, 2022 22:37:59 GMT -5
Iyo
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Aug 3, 2022 22:40:23 GMT -5
I'd say Bianca has the most routinely entertaining matches for me.
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Post by saneiac on Aug 4, 2022 2:09:42 GMT -5
Sasha, then Asuka. Sasha is number one to me because I can come up with a number of truly great Sasha matches, but Asuka doesn't really have those standouts. She's just always really good.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Aug 4, 2022 2:15:09 GMT -5
Asuka is my favourite and Charlotte is clearly a Big Match Player but for me it has to be Sasha Banks. She has an unrivalled string of great matches, even compared with the men.
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Post by theironyuppie on Aug 4, 2022 2:20:09 GMT -5
The interesting thing with Charlotte is that she's probably got the deepest catalogue of great and/or important matches going all the way back to her Natalya match in 2014, but at the same time, you can tell when she's unmotivated and it's hard to deny that she's had a few shockers, with the Lacey matches and that trainwreck with Nia last year coming to mind. (She also had a bad one with Carmella at Backlash 2018, but she was working hurt and their SD matches later in the year were much better.) With the odd exception of her underwhelming Mania match with Ronda this year, she's also someone who really makes matches stand out on the big stage.
As for Bianca, she's definitely talented, but I think she's helped by being on such a strong push for so long and WWE's match structures virtually always playing to her strengths. In the KOD she's got possibly the best finisher in WWE, as it's got a unique setup, looks good, and has never been kicked out of in NXT or WWE. However, she's not a particularly convincing seller (her bumping is getting better but can be samey), and sometimes comes off a bit mechanical in the ways she moves from spot-to-spot. Sasha on the other hand is great at bumping/selling, and obviously has had plenty of strong matches, but her heavily knee-based offense can get repetitive right down to multiple meteoras per match. Becky's lack of athleticism can definitely be evident at times, but at the same time its usually overcome by her connecting to the crowd.
I think Rhea's just waiting on that sustained push, really. She had the title run last year but it didn't get built up due to the chaos in the Raw women's division, and ever since losing the title her booking's been stop-start. She got a great showcase in the 45-minute gauntlet match on Raw earlier this year, but that was to put Bianca over and then it was straight back to the tag team division. That said, I think it's only a matter of time now and she's already got a very impressive catalogue for someone so young (one of her best runs was actually after losing the NXT title, with everything from her cage match with Mercedes to the NXT TV match with Io to the two vs Raquel), and even somehow got a good match out of Nia Jax last year. Her versatility' s really something too, as she's obviously a powerhouse but is also athletic and sells very convincingly.
I would argue Rhea's biggest problem is that she's attached to The Judgement Day right now. Which is a dead in the water faction, with their credibility basically being one very small step above Retribution's. Bianca is a great wrestler, but when a match falls apart, she gets really sloppy and lost. Also I've noticed she's picked up the habit of running around and twirling her ponytail at the same time again, which looks stupid. Charlotte is by far the most selfish of the three you mentioned (in that she really doesn't like to sell for women she sees as "below her"), in that when she has an off night, it's REALLY bad. She's either good or really bad, there's no inbetween, and her booking is pretty harmful to the women she's feuding with, outside of a couple of exceptions. I don't think there's been a single woman in the company who has lost a feud to her and came out of it fairly unscathed. Their stock takes a massive hit. Iyo is the best in ring worker in the division, as she'll sell her ass off, and has had very few actual bad matches in WWE. I would argue her Bianca match on RAW this past Monday was one of the weakest, but that was mainly because the agenting sucked, and instead of showcasing Iyo like what they should have done, it was more just Bianca countering almost everything effortlessly and getting the spotlight. Would have served WWE better to just have Iyo squash a local talent (maybe toy around with them to extend the match slightly), or someone like Dana.
It depends on where the story goes from here, honestly. I agree the faction as a whole hasn't looked strong, but they've been showing that so far she's escaping comeuppance even when Finn and Priest are getting beat down. I think it's leading to Beth Phoenix returning, which is potentially a big opportunity and you would think would lead to Rhea beating her as that's how the other legends matches have gone (Charlotte beat Trish, Becky beat Lita), but just depends on the storytelling.
I will say with Charlotte that I do think she's someone who tends to be very careful (some would argue too careful) in protecting her size, which sometimes can get confused with selfishness. I also think her Andrade homages have negatively effected her matches, as moves like the double moonsault don't look good enough to be worth the risk of when they look clunky.
As for the agenting of Iyo/Bianca, it's just how Bianca matches tend to be in general. She's always given shine and is always going to get her showcase moments, whatever the story is otherwise. (Sometimes they can be pretty awkwardly incorporated into a match as a whole, like the triple threat with Becky/Sasha in Saudi Arabia.) It's a dilemma as of course you don't want to expose someone's weaknesses, but then not showing them can also make a lot of her matches/feuds feel too predictable.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Aug 4, 2022 4:49:39 GMT -5
I would argue Rhea's biggest problem is that she's attached to The Judgement Day right now. Which is a dead in the water faction, with their credibility basically being one very small step above Retribution's. Bianca is a great wrestler, but when a match falls apart, she gets really sloppy and lost. Also I've noticed she's picked up the habit of running around and twirling her ponytail at the same time again, which looks stupid. Charlotte is by far the most selfish of the three you mentioned (in that she really doesn't like to sell for women she sees as "below her"), in that when she has an off night, it's REALLY bad. She's either good or really bad, there's no inbetween, and her booking is pretty harmful to the women she's feuding with, outside of a couple of exceptions. I don't think there's been a single woman in the company who has lost a feud to her and came out of it fairly unscathed. Their stock takes a massive hit. Iyo is the best in ring worker in the division, as she'll sell her ass off, and has had very few actual bad matches in WWE. I would argue her Bianca match on RAW this past Monday was one of the weakest, but that was mainly because the agenting sucked, and instead of showcasing Iyo like what they should have done, it was more just Bianca countering almost everything effortlessly and getting the spotlight. Would have served WWE better to just have Iyo squash a local talent (maybe toy around with them to extend the match slightly), or someone like Dana. It depends on where the story goes from here, honestly. I agree the faction as a whole hasn't looked strong, but they've been showing that so far she's escaping comeuppance even when Finn and Priest are getting beat down. I think it's leading to Beth Phoenix returning, which is potentially a big opportunity and you would think would lead to Rhea beating her as that's how the other legends matches have gone (Charlotte beat Trish, Becky beat Lita), but just depends on the storytelling.
I will say with Charlotte that I do think she's someone who tends to be very careful (some would argue too careful) in protecting her size, which sometimes can get confused with selfishness. I also think her Andrade homages have negatively effected her matches, as moves like the double moonsault don't look good enough to be worth the risk of when they look clunky.
As for the agenting of Iyo/Bianca, it's just how Bianca matches tend to be in general. She's always given shine and is always going to get her showcase moments, whatever the story is otherwise. (Sometimes they can be pretty awkwardly incorporated into a match as a whole, like the triple threat with Becky/Sasha in Saudi Arabia.) It's a dilemma as of course you don't want to expose someone's weaknesses, but then not showing them can also make a lot of her matches/feuds feel too predictable.
Rhea is definitely presented as the star of the group however I don't know if that's more because they like her more or if it's just her benefitting from the no man on woman violence deal in all the faces they are feuding with are guys and can't hit her so she's always going be unscathed while Balor and Priest get beat up. I think a lot the issue with Charlotte protecting her size is that while she's one of the biggest woman on the roster she's not really been ever been presented as some dominant unstoppable powerhouse either. She's not a giant like Nia Jax. Or presented as incredibly strong like Bianca or Rhea. Or an MMA bad ass like Ronda or Shayna. She's always just been presented as someone who is an extremely good wrestler. Style wise she's kind of a hybrid but if you would have to pick one style for her I would say she's more of a technique wrestler. So when she's shrugging offense off and not really selling it does kind of lead to a disconnect. When it comes to Bianca she's basically the face of the division at this point. She won her feud with Becky who they switched heel to make way for her and the crowd is never going to accept Charlotte. So when it comes to her matches she's always going to the number one priority regardless of who she's in there with and what the circumstances are. So with the match with Io it was booked exactly how I thought it would. Back and forth with Bianca being presented as being superior and then a Double DQ finish to protect both since obviously they aren't going to have Bianca lose since she's the champion and the golden child and having one third of your new main event heel stable job right out of the gates would be incredibly dumb.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2022 13:03:06 GMT -5
Charlotte's had better matches, but her most impressive performance to me was MITB last year against Rhea. The crowd was shitting on the match and chanting for Becky at first, but instead of having a melty and letting it ruin their match, she and Rhea kicked it into another gear and won them over. I also think Rhea's confidence went way up after that match, after her rough start on the main roster.
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Gus Richlen: Ruffian
Patti Mayonnaise
Metal Maestro: Co-winner of the FAN Idol Throwdown!
BAU BAU
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Post by Gus Richlen: Ruffian on Aug 4, 2022 13:14:11 GMT -5
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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Post by lemonyellowson on Aug 4, 2022 14:55:41 GMT -5
*Looks in thread to make sure asuka is winning. *Leaves happily.
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Post by Hypnosis on Aug 4, 2022 15:51:15 GMT -5
*Looks in thread to make sure asuka is winning. *Leaves happily.
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