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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Oct 1, 2022 15:52:00 GMT -5
I know the worst thing they did to Miz the last few years was have him lose to Wyatt, not even the Fiend, but Funhouse Wyatt, when The Fiend was threatening his family. Between this and the Shane feud babyface Miz during that run might have been the most pathetic guy ever. I seriously wonder who the hell he pissed off so much to get treated the way he did.
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Post by Pooh Carlson on Oct 1, 2022 16:51:07 GMT -5
I’m really curious to see how Bray Wyatt looks with more creative control. He was definitely held back because of Vince. I don't know that he's not gonna be "held back." Even Triple H admits that Bray needs to be harnessed and pointed on the right direction.
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Post by sportatorium on Oct 1, 2022 17:20:36 GMT -5
Was this true for anyone in the past who worked with Undertaker, Mankind, Kevin Sullivan (in Florida), Kane or anyone who had to work with a gimmick character?
Rollins was high enough on the card that he could have objected to his booking against the Fiend or anything else he had to endure after beating Lesnar. He was the WWE hand puppet on Twitter any chance he got. His problem is with how the feud was booked, it had nothing to do with Bray or how he played his character(s).
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2022 17:23:03 GMT -5
Was this true for anyone in the past who worked with Undertaker, Mankind, Kevin Sullivan (in Florida), Kane or anyone who had to work with a gimmick character? Rollins was high enough on the card that he could have objected to his booking against the Fiend or anything else he had to endure after beating Lesnar. He was the WWE hand puppet on Twitter any chance he got. His problem is with how the feud was booked, it had nothing to do with Bray or how he played his character(s). I think Seth claimed on Austin's show that he had to be held back from going after Vince following the HIAC match. Anyone who tries to spin this as "Seth hates Bray" is an idiot.
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Post by xCompackx on Oct 1, 2022 17:31:27 GMT -5
I’m really curious to see how Bray Wyatt looks with more creative control. He was definitely held back because of Vince. I don't know that he's not gonna be "held back." Even Triple H admits that Bray needs to be harnessed and pointed on the right direction. That's a pretty common thing with people who really care about their craft. There's always a balance between letting someone be creative, and needing to focus on actually putting out a product. Hell, for an example of what happens when you don't harness creative potential, look at Konami and Hideo Kojima. There's a reason Metal Gear got wacky.
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Post by sportatorium on Oct 1, 2022 18:07:09 GMT -5
The handling of Bray has been one of WWE's biggest missteps. The guy never needed to be in programs for a world title, much less making him champion. He's a guy who can handle feuds with powerhouse babyfaces or help bring out extra dimensions in his opponents with mind games and just getting under their skin.
Vince booked him like it was an old territory and Bray was the heel who came in & got pushed to the top only to have a babyface run him off. Problem was, WWE isn't a territory and when Goldberg is booked to no sell his mystique, or he's getting booked to lose straight up to Cena, Undertaker & Reigns, he still has to come back and wrestle on the same TV show. He should have had Undertaker's heel booking, but instead got booked like Miz or Chris Jericho.
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Post by Gerard Gerard on Oct 1, 2022 21:43:33 GMT -5
Rollins/Wyatt feud was weird in that it was waaaaaay too soon to run that match, and they knew it judging by how dreadfully they tried to book themselves out of the corner they got themselves into.
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Post by Limity (BLM) on Oct 1, 2022 21:48:18 GMT -5
Man, how times have changed. How many years ago was it when every interview Seth gave was awful company line stuff?
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Jonathan Michaels
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Post by Jonathan Michaels on Oct 1, 2022 22:12:14 GMT -5
I know the worst thing they did to Miz the last few years was have him lose to Wyatt, not even the Fiend, but Funhouse Wyatt, when The Fiend was threatening his family. Between this and the Shane feud babyface Miz during that run might have been the most pathetic guy ever. I seriously wonder who the hell he pissed off so much to get treated the way he did. The face turn had worked, though, that was the thing, people were absolutely dying to see Miz destroy Shane at Mania.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Oct 1, 2022 22:13:06 GMT -5
Man, how bizarre would a feud between Bray and current Seth be? Fiend be like “This f***in weirdo, am I right?”.
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Post by asuka007 on Oct 1, 2022 23:12:48 GMT -5
If Seth is talking about The Fiend, which I think he is, then yeah pretty much no one came out of feuding with him looking better than when they went in.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2022 23:25:44 GMT -5
Man, how bizarre would a feud between Bray and current Seth be? Fiend be like “This f***in weirdo, am I right?”. Imagining Fiend doing that Bugs Bunny side take to the camera amuses me more than it probably should.
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Post by asuka007 on Oct 1, 2022 23:30:08 GMT -5
Was this true for anyone in the past who worked with Undertaker, Mankind, Kevin Sullivan (in Florida), Kane or anyone who had to work with a gimmick character? Rollins was high enough on the card that he could have objected to his booking against the Fiend or anything else he had to endure after beating Lesnar. He was the WWE hand puppet on Twitter any chance he got. His problem is with how the feud was booked, it had nothing to do with Bray or how he played his character(s). I think Seth claimed on Austin's show that he had to be held back from going after Vince following the HIAC match. Anyone who tries to spin this as "Seth hates Bray" is an idiot. He said his first instinct when coming backstage was to “strangle Vince.”
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Oct 1, 2022 23:30:47 GMT -5
I'd say it's less due to Bray's character in its own right (well, maybe the Fiend, that was often pretty absurd) and more because of how often they'd use him as a Get Out Of Booking Free card for people they didn't want winning specific matches even when logically they really should have. Yeah, and how can anyone come out of a feud over literal nonsense looking better? The get out of booking free Bray stood for nothing said nothing and just sorta existed to keep important people from doing nothing. Fiend had more of a point but the issue became of over exposing the nightmare murder clown, which would have been let funhouse Bray actually wrestle and like wrestle not like the fiend. Where he’s not indestructible or doing neck snaps and the like.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Oct 2, 2022 4:43:48 GMT -5
I didn't see this infamous HIAC. Why is it so bad?
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Oct 2, 2022 6:20:49 GMT -5
I didn't see this infamous HIAC. Why is it so bad? A match with ostensibly no rules other than a referee to count a pinfall or submission went to a no contest because of Rollins being too violent. To that point, The Fiend had kicked out of literally 10 Curb Stomps, the finishing move of the world champion. Naturally, since Vince McMahon wasn’t a regularly-appearing person on television, fans did what they always do when they had a problem with Vince’s booking and took it out on the only visible entities in the process, the talent.
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Post by asuka007 on Oct 2, 2022 13:26:00 GMT -5
I didn't see this infamous HIAC. Why is it so bad? A match with ostensibly no rules other than a referee to count a pinfall or submission went to a no contest because of Rollins being too violent. To that point, The Fiend had kicked out of literally 10 Curb Stomps, the finishing move of the world champion. Naturally, since Vince McMahon wasn’t a regularly-appearing person on television, fans did what they always do when they had a problem with Vince’s booking and took it out on the only visible entities in the process, the talent. It was a match that hurt everyone involved.
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Post by Fade on Oct 2, 2022 13:34:57 GMT -5
I don't know that he's not gonna be "held back." Even Triple H admits that Bray needs to be harnessed and pointed on the right direction. That's a pretty common thing with people who really care about their craft. There's always a balance between letting someone be creative, and needing to focus on actually putting out a product. Hell, for an example of what happens when you don't harness creative potential, look at Konami and Hideo Kojima. There's a reason Metal Gear got wacky. Yeah. It’s the precarious situation of having a really creative talent that tends to push it too far and needing to be reigned back but not stifled. Which was clearly happening with Vince. The hood would be Papa H & Bray work better together. Man, how times have changed. How many years ago was it when every interview Seth gave was awful company line stuff? It is amazing how he comes off In this: composed, articulate, grateful..all the while, same old Seth (the chip on his shoulder) is there but he just seems so much more mature. I don’t know if it’s Becky, getting so over character-wise or being a Dad but he’s at a very different level.
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Post by lucas_lee on Oct 4, 2022 8:17:49 GMT -5
That's a pretty common thing with people who really care about their craft. There's always a balance between letting someone be creative, and needing to focus on actually putting out a product. Hell, for an example of what happens when you don't harness creative potential, look at Konami and Hideo Kojima. There's a reason Metal Gear got wacky. Yeah. It’s the precarious situation of having a really creative talent that tends to push it too far and needing to be reigned back but not stifled. Which was clearly happening with Vince. The hood would be Papa H & Bray work better together. Man, how times have changed. How many years ago was it when every interview Seth gave was awful company line stuff? It is amazing how he comes off In this: composed, articulate, grateful..all the while, same old Seth (the chip on his shoulder) is there but he just seems so much more mature. I don’t know if it’s Becky, getting so over character-wise or being a Dad but he’s at a very different level. I think its also Vince not being there has made wrestlers more calm and able to say things without being accused of not being loyal. I have a feeling Vince would do that to people
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Post by joeiscool on Oct 4, 2022 11:39:35 GMT -5
I thought that was the point. Every character was "killed" and reborn(except for cena) after facing the fiend..
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