Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,099
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Post by Mecca on May 2, 2024 9:58:53 GMT -5
I’ve been an AEW fan from day one. I know they’re not a perfect wrestling product, and there are things on the shows I’m not a fan of, but in my opinion, they’re hitting more than they’re missing right now. So to see troll comments on all AEW’s social media posts, troll comments under articles on wrestling news sites, even my old school friends who I’ve been watching wrestling over 30 years are shitting on AEW in a WhatsApp group we’re all in. It’s also the reason I don’t post or visit here as much as I used to, even though some of the criticism posts are a lot nicer and insightful than the trolls. So, for me personally, tough time to be an AEW fan right now. Yeah, riffing on AEW has become so trendy that it's a rough time to be an AEW fan in the IWC at-large right now. 95% of people who "hate" AEW very clearly don't even watch and can't even articulate why. And, what's worse, is that I think that a lot of the more pro-AEW forums have kind of overcompensated to a point where even reasonable criticism of AEW is instantly rebuked (r/AEWofficial is a good example), or, on more neutral forums, people act put upon when others push back against criticism of AEW at all because it's just expected that everyone hates "Tiny Con" and his "play wrestling company." It's very frustrating. One of the main reasons I tend to prefer posting here these days. I was listening to a podcast the other day and the dude had a pretty well laid out argument for why this is happening that I never thought of. And it's becoming a bit of a running gag but WWE PR and the head there, Chris Legentil, are basically running full on PR and using that to pump WWE up and trash the shit out of AEW. But the thing is they don't even really have to plant bad stories about AEW. Most wrestling media is a joke, there aren't many people covering wrestling that are serious journalists. So WWE reaching out to them, gets them to mark out, so they'll do exactly what WWE asks because they want that connection. All it takes is some stories planted by WWE PR, which they absolutely do, they aren't attributed as WWE being the source for them and then the next thing you know, that story is on every aggregating site out there so that sentiment builds. These people posting those stories value their relationship with WWE so they keep doing it. This shit goes on in real sports, if you aren't reporting friendly stuff teams will pull your credentials and f*** with your career, and those are real journalists, not people that grew up WWE marks. AEW needs to spend some money to combat this PR shit they are facing or this shit isn't going to go away anytime soon. The vast majority of people reporting on wrestling grew up in the Hogan era, Austin era or Cena era, they have nostalgia and loyalty to that company so of course when WWE contacts them they feel great. He used an example from the other day I'll throwing out because it makes perfect sense. PWInsider reported on the "kinder gentler releases" of this front office opposed to the past one. No one was sourced on that, well who's the source? There's only 1 wrestler in that group that could have said that, Jinder Mahal, because he's been released by both. So tell us if he's the source or not because if he is then it has credibility, if he's not then your source is WWE PR, and of course that makes the story completely different.
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Post by Denny Zen is Cooking™ on May 2, 2024 11:03:55 GMT -5
Yeah, riffing on AEW has become so trendy that it's a rough time to be an AEW fan in the IWC at-large right now. 95% of people who "hate" AEW very clearly don't even watch and can't even articulate why. And, what's worse, is that I think that a lot of the more pro-AEW forums have kind of overcompensated to a point where even reasonable criticism of AEW is instantly rebuked (r/AEWofficial is a good example), or, on more neutral forums, people act put upon when others push back against criticism of AEW at all because it's just expected that everyone hates "Tiny Con" and his "play wrestling company." It's very frustrating. One of the main reasons I tend to prefer posting here these days. I was listening to a podcast the other day and the dude had a pretty well laid out argument for why this is happening that I never thought of. And it's becoming a bit of a running gag but WWE PR and the head there, Chris Legentil, are basically running full on PR and using that to pump WWE up and trash the shit out of AEW. But the thing is they don't even really have to plant bad stories about AEW. Most wrestling media is a joke, there aren't many people covering wrestling that are serious journalists. So WWE reaching out to them, gets them to mark out, so they'll do exactly what WWE asks because they want that connection. All it takes is some stories planted by WWE PR, which they absolutely do, they aren't attributed as WWE being the source for them and then the next thing you know, that story is on every aggregating site out there so that sentiment builds. These people posting those stories value their relationship with WWE so they keep doing it. This shit goes on in real sports, if you aren't reporting friendly stuff teams will pull your credentials and f*** with your career, and those are real journalists, not people that grew up WWE marks. AEW needs to spend some money to combat this PR shit they are facing or this shit isn't going to go away anytime soon. The vast majority of people reporting on wrestling grew up in the Hogan era, Austin era or Cena era, they have nostalgia and loyalty to that company so of course when WWE contacts them they feel great. He used an example from the other day I'll throwing out because it makes perfect sense. PWInsider reported on the "kinder gentler releases" of this front office opposed to the past one. No one was sourced on that, well who's the source? There's only 1 wrestler in that group that could have said that, Jinder Mahal, because he's been released by both. So tell us if he's the source or not because if he is then it has credibility, if he's not then your source is WWE PR, and of course that makes the story completely different. Yeah, and it's incredibly fishy how AEW can't post a single thing anywhere on social media, no matter how innocuous, without the top comment being something to the effect of "LMAO ALL EMPTY WRESTLING" or "it saddens me so much to see Edge wasting the twilight of his career in a company that no one is watching...the issue is Tony Khan, AEW has the potential to be good, but as long as Tony Khan is there with his terrible booking, no one will watch." Like, TK took a ton of flack for implying that bots have flooded AEW's social media comments, but even now like 60% of the comments are "people" who speak in a stilted manner that I've only ever heard Michael Cole with Vince in his ear speak. And it's been successful, too, because I do think that the general consensus is that AEW is a "bush league," "directionless" company right now when that really hasn't been even close to true since CM Punk and his stupid ass "real world champion" storyline finally f***ed off.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
Celestial Princess in Exile.
Posts: 46,149
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Post by Allie Kitsune on May 2, 2024 11:11:40 GMT -5
This Chris Legentil thing is turning into such a boogeyman that in no time flat, we're going to have people accusing damn near everyone of being paid Legentil shills.
And oh boy, isn't that going to be the most fun thing in the world (Note : It won't be).
(I post this being self-aware enough to know that this will probably get some accusations thrown my way, too.)
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Post by Doo Doo Dickhead on May 2, 2024 11:27:11 GMT -5
This Chris Legentil thing is turning into such a boogeyman that in no time flat, we're going to have people accusing damn near everyone of being paid Legentil shills. And oh boy, isn't that going to be the most fun thing in the world (Note : It won't be). (I post this being self-aware enough to know that this will probably get some accusations thrown my way, too.) So... how much IS Chris Lentil paying you, Allie?
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,099
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Post by Mecca on May 2, 2024 11:46:31 GMT -5
This Chris Legentil thing is turning into such a boogeyman that in no time flat, we're going to have people accusing damn near everyone of being paid Legentil shills. And oh boy, isn't that going to be the most fun thing in the world (Note : It won't be). (I post this being self-aware enough to know that this will probably get some accusations thrown my way, too.) I mean it's the world of PR, do I think he's likely doing those things? Yea it's his job to do those things, it's on AEW to counter with their own PR. I would always tell anyone when you read a story that has no real source on it you should be aware that it may be a company planted story, like the release story for example. I'm not even ripping on Legentil he's doing what he's paid to do, I'm more or less ripping on the wrestling "journalists" who run those stories no questions asked.
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Post by Doo Doo Dickhead on May 2, 2024 12:19:28 GMT -5
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Post by le cowboy fringant on May 2, 2024 12:28:22 GMT -5
This is all your fault Legentil!
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Post by Doo Doo Dickhead on May 2, 2024 12:29:00 GMT -5
This is all your fault Legentil! I find the dumbest shit funny sometimes.
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Johnny Flamingo
Hank Scorpio
Killing the business one post at a time
Posts: 6,505
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Post by Johnny Flamingo on May 2, 2024 12:56:23 GMT -5
The PR machine was definitely out. Punk talks about the backstage atmosphere in AEW being unprofessional. Cornette and his ilk have run with it since, an intended side effect.
Jade Cargill signs with WWE and in one of her first interviews talks about WWE being the most professional place she’s been.
Punk signs with WWE and since then we’ve had a barrage of stories talking about how great he is backstage complete with countless pics of him with NXT wrestlers.
I think it was a very deliberate PR campaign to drive the narrative that AEW is unprofessional . By doing so they knew the usual suspects would run with it and spread the narrative.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,099
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Post by Mecca on May 2, 2024 13:00:01 GMT -5
The PR machine was definitely out. Punk talks about the backstage atmosphere in AEW being unprofessional. Cornette and his ilk have run with it since, an intended side effect. Jade Cargill signs with WWE and in one of her first interviews talks about WWE being the most professional place she’s been. Punk signs with WWE and since then we’ve had a barrage of stories talking about how great he is backstage complete with countless pics of him with NXT wrestlers. I think it was a very deliberate PR campaign to drive the narrative that AEW is unprofessional . By doing so they knew the usual suspects would run with it and spread the narrative. The biggest "names" in podcasting just shit all over AEW all the time...you get these stories out and the aggregators pick them up so they are everywhere...it doesn't take much to make a casual fan be like "oh this company sucks" A friend of mine is like that, he literally doesn't watch AEW, constantly texts me it's terrible and all he knows of it is what he reads online.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on May 2, 2024 13:45:52 GMT -5
The PR machine was definitely out. Punk talks about the backstage atmosphere in AEW being unprofessional. Cornette and his ilk have run with it since, an intended side effect. Jade Cargill signs with WWE and in one of her first interviews talks about WWE being the most professional place she’s been. Punk signs with WWE and since then we’ve had a barrage of stories talking about how great he is backstage complete with countless pics of him with NXT wrestlers. I think it was a very deliberate PR campaign to drive the narrative that AEW is unprofessional . By doing so they knew the usual suspects would run with it and spread the narrative. The biggest "names" in podcasting just shit all over AEW all the time...you get these stories out and the aggregators pick them up so they are everywhere...it doesn't take much to make a casual fan be like "oh this company sucks" A friend of mine is like that, he literally doesn't watch AEW, constantly texts me it's terrible and all he knows of it is what he reads online. Man if I had a friend who was constantly texting me to bitch about how he hates something like, he wouldn't be my friend for very long.
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KME
Team Rocket
Posts: 796
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Post by KME on May 2, 2024 13:49:11 GMT -5
I don't know if I've ever seen a bigger disparity between the way an apparent majority, who don't seem to actually watch the show, see a product and the reality of it. "AEW is sooooo bad now! Even TNA is better!"... in response to AEW having signed Ospreay, Mercedes Mone and Okada, had two of the best wrestling shows of all time in Revolution and Dynasty, having one of the greatest retirements ever from Sting and one of their best Dynamite's ever where he and Darby won the titles. Oh and legitimately two of the greatest matches ever in Ospreay/Takeshita and Ospreay/Danielson. Also think their storytelling and building towards PPV has been a lot more consistent but that's mostly academic, they were set up to be a wrestling focussed wrestling company and still provide the best wrestling in the country by some distance and all that stuff I've listed above is a f***ing outrageous amount of quality over the course of just a couple of months or so.
WWE or HHH or whoever know a lot of fans will go with whatever agenda you spoon feed them but you still just shake your head reading it and wonder what planet people are living on when talking about the quality falling off a cliff. It's not a perfect wrestling show but it never has been, some of the days people pine for had all sorts of bad stuff in places from Dan Lambert to Brandi Rhodes to the Codyverse to Jake Hager having regular PPV matches to the sparklers at the end of the Exploding Barbed Wire Match to Sammy nearly killing Matt Hardy to Paul Wight wrestling QT Marshall on their best ever PPV to one of their worst ever Dynamite's occurring right after that particular PPV and so on. Every show will have bad bits sometimes, especially wrestling shows because it's such a weird business, but AEW are still great at what they've always been great at, they do need to fight back harder in the PR war against the idea that they've somehow become WCW in the later days where they had about 3 good shows in 2 years. A big portion of AEW's most acclaimed shows have come in the last couple of years, has there been a mainstream promotion in the states with more top tier PPV's then AEW had with Revolution, Forbidden Door, All In, All Out and WrestleDream last year? I legit don't know if I've ever seen any neutral wrestling source even mention how insane that collection or shows was. The very best wrestlers are choosing to sign for them too. These are the sort of things they need a bigger deal to be made of rather than getting swept under the carpet the way they are because someone wants to move on to talking about how AEW's dead because Toni Storm didn't talk about her tattoo enough.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,099
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Post by Mecca on May 2, 2024 13:49:55 GMT -5
The biggest "names" in podcasting just shit all over AEW all the time...you get these stories out and the aggregators pick them up so they are everywhere...it doesn't take much to make a casual fan be like "oh this company sucks" A friend of mine is like that, he literally doesn't watch AEW, constantly texts me it's terrible and all he knows of it is what he reads online. Man if I had a friend who was constantly texting me to bitch about how he hates something like, he wouldn't be my friend for very long. He's been my friend for like 25 years but I do feel like that sometimes.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,099
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Post by Mecca on May 2, 2024 13:51:29 GMT -5
I don't know if I've ever seen a bigger disparity between the way an apparent majority, who don't seem to actually watch the show, see a product and the reality of it. "AEW is sooooo bad now!" Even TNA is better!... in response to AEW having signed Ospreay, Mercedes Mone and Okada, had two of the best wrestling shows of all time in Revolution and Dynasty, having one of the greatest retirements ever from Sting and one of their best Dynamite's ever where he and Darby won the titles. Oh and legitimately two of the greatest matches ever in Ospreay/Takeshita and Ospreay/Danielson. Also think their storytelling and building towards PPV has been a lot more consistent but that's mostly academic, they were set up to be a wrestling focussed wrestling company and still provide the best wrestling in the country by some distance and all that stuff I've listed above is a f***ing outrageous amount of quality over the course of just a couple of months or so. WWE or HHH or whoever know a lot of fans will go with whatever agenda you spoon feed them but you still just shake your head reading it and wonder what planet people are living on when talking about the quality falling off a cliff. It's not a perfect wrestling show but it never has been, some of the days people pine for had all sorts of bad stuff in places from Dan Lambert to Brandi Rhodes to the Codyverse to Jake Hager having regular PPV matches to the sparklers at the end of the Exploding Barbed Wire Match to Sammy nearly killing Matt Hardy to Paul Wight wrestling QT Marshall on their best ever PPV and so on. Every show will have bad bits sometimes, especially wrestling shows because it's such a weird business, but AEW are still great at what they've always been great at, they do need to fight back harder in the PR war against the idea that they've somehow become WCW in the later days where they had about 3 good shows in 2 years. A big portion of AEW's most acclaimed shows have come in the last couple of years, has there been a mainstream promotion in the states with more top tier PPV's then AEW had with Revolution, Forbidden Door, All In, All Out and WrestleDream last year? I legit don't know if I've ever seen any neutral wrestling source even mention how insane that collection or shows was. The very best wrestlers are choosing to sign for them too. These are the sort of things they need a bigger deal to be made of rather than getting swept under the carpet the way they are because someone wants to move on to talking about how AEW's dead because Toni Storm didn't talk about her tattoo enough. There is literally a running narrative out there that "I'm glad WWE missed out on Okada this guy sucks"
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Post by Denny Zen is Cooking™ on May 2, 2024 13:59:36 GMT -5
The PR machine was definitely out. Punk talks about the backstage atmosphere in AEW being unprofessional. Cornette and his ilk have run with it since, an intended side effect. Jade Cargill signs with WWE and in one of her first interviews talks about WWE being the most professional place she’s been. Punk signs with WWE and since then we’ve had a barrage of stories talking about how great he is backstage complete with countless pics of him with NXT wrestlers. I think it was a very deliberate PR campaign to drive the narrative that AEW is unprofessional . By doing so they knew the usual suspects would run with it and spread the narrative. The biggest "names" in podcasting just shit all over AEW all the time...you get these stories out and the aggregators pick them up so they are everywhere...it doesn't take much to make a casual fan be like "oh this company sucks" A friend of mine is like that, he literally doesn't watch AEW, constantly texts me it's terrible and all he knows of it is what he reads online. That's where WWE has succeeded so resoundingly in the PR wars. Shitting all over every single thing AEW does generates clicks right now, so everyone is doing it. When even a guy who is (baselessly) considered pro-AEW like Meltzer is leaning heavily on AEW fatalism right now, things are absolutely brutal with respect to the outright grifters like Cornette, Scherer, and Bischoff. I also had a friend who knows I like wrestling text me the other day like "man, do you think AEW is going to survive much longer? I saw a picture on Reddit and it looked pretty empty." And I was like "well, I mean, that's a little disingenuous because they sold like 3500 tickets to a weeknight TV taping. The issue is that they don't sell tickets on the hardcam side and they book these venues that seat 12000 but only try and sell 5000 seats, so its easy to take pictures like that to farm Reddit karma." After I said that, he was like "ah yeah, that makes sense." But, as a "casual fan," he was convinced that AEW is in a WCW 2000 death spiral because so many people go to AEW shows for no other reason than to take a photo of the hardcam side and Tweet at Cornette or WrestleTix. It's so weird.
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Kalmia
King Koopa
Happy to be here
Posts: 11,706
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Post by Kalmia on May 2, 2024 14:41:47 GMT -5
The internet is just really weird about all forms of entertainment in general right now. People would rather spend their time hating on things they don't even watch instead of praising things they like. It's not just wrestling, either. It's like people are just waiting for things to fail and willing it into existence. Just look at the glee when movies bomb at the box office or get some critical reviews.
It's not something I can understand and I hope I never do.
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Zone Was Wrong
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Currently living off the high that AEW brings every Wednesday and Friday
Posts: 16,200
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Post by Zone Was Wrong on May 2, 2024 14:44:00 GMT -5
This Chris Legentil thing is turning into such a boogeyman that in no time flat, we're going to have people accusing damn near everyone of being paid Legentil shills. And oh boy, isn't that going to be the most fun thing in the world (Note : It won't be). (I post this being self-aware enough to know that this will probably get some accusations thrown my way, too.) So... how much IS Chris Lentil paying you, Allie? Or maybe Allie IS Lentil! DUN DUN DUUUUUUUUUUNNN
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Post by Cyno on May 2, 2024 14:44:57 GMT -5
I can't imagine how little of a life someone has to waste an entire night and who knows how much money to attend a wrestling taping just to shit on it for internet clout.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 236,075
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on May 2, 2024 14:49:36 GMT -5
The PR machine was definitely out. Punk talks about the backstage atmosphere in AEW being unprofessional. Cornette and his ilk have run with it since, an intended side effect. Jade Cargill signs with WWE and in one of her first interviews talks about WWE being the most professional place she’s been. Punk signs with WWE and since then we’ve had a barrage of stories talking about how great he is backstage complete with countless pics of him with NXT wrestlers. I think it was a very deliberate PR campaign to drive the narrative that AEW is unprofessional . By doing so they knew the usual suspects would run with it and spread the narrative. The biggest "names" in podcasting just shit all over AEW all the time...you get these stories out and the aggregators pick them up so they are everywhere...it doesn't take much to make a casual fan be like "oh this company sucks" A friend of mine is like that, he literally doesn't watch AEW, constantly texts me it's terrible and all he knows of it is what he reads online. Also not watching but constantly shitting on the product means you care, like way too much, but people like this are completely tone deaf. I also don't know this guy but it's a shitty thing to do to people.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,304
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Post by The Ichi on May 2, 2024 14:56:14 GMT -5
I don't know if I've ever seen a bigger disparity between the way an apparent majority, who don't seem to actually watch the show, see a product and the reality of it. "AEW is sooooo bad now!" Even TNA is better!... in response to AEW having signed Ospreay, Mercedes Mone and Okada, had two of the best wrestling shows of all time in Revolution and Dynasty, having one of the greatest retirements ever from Sting and one of their best Dynamite's ever where he and Darby won the titles. Oh and legitimately two of the greatest matches ever in Ospreay/Takeshita and Ospreay/Danielson. Also think their storytelling and building towards PPV has been a lot more consistent but that's mostly academic, they were set up to be a wrestling focussed wrestling company and still provide the best wrestling in the country by some distance and all that stuff I've listed above is a f***ing outrageous amount of quality over the course of just a couple of months or so. WWE or HHH or whoever know a lot of fans will go with whatever agenda you spoon feed them but you still just shake your head reading it and wonder what planet people are living on when talking about the quality falling off a cliff. It's not a perfect wrestling show but it never has been, some of the days people pine for had all sorts of bad stuff in places from Dan Lambert to Brandi Rhodes to the Codyverse to Jake Hager having regular PPV matches to the sparklers at the end of the Exploding Barbed Wire Match to Sammy nearly killing Matt Hardy to Paul Wight wrestling QT Marshall on their best ever PPV and so on. Every show will have bad bits sometimes, especially wrestling shows because it's such a weird business, but AEW are still great at what they've always been great at, they do need to fight back harder in the PR war against the idea that they've somehow become WCW in the later days where they had about 3 good shows in 2 years. A big portion of AEW's most acclaimed shows have come in the last couple of years, has there been a mainstream promotion in the states with more top tier PPV's then AEW had with Revolution, Forbidden Door, All In, All Out and WrestleDream last year? I legit don't know if I've ever seen any neutral wrestling source even mention how insane that collection or shows was. The very best wrestlers are choosing to sign for them too. These are the sort of things they need a bigger deal to be made of rather than getting swept under the carpet the way they are because someone wants to move on to talking about how AEW's dead because Toni Storm didn't talk about her tattoo enough. There is literally a running narrative out there that "I'm glad WWE missed out on Okada this guy sucks" See also: Omega, Kenny White, Jay Though I prefer the inverse of being excited to scoop up Pillman Jnr.
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