Blade
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,943
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Post by Blade on Oct 8, 2022 18:08:22 GMT -5
Have any examples of how applauded it is in Japan? Right, that's definitely an unfair statement given there have been multiple scandals about that kind of thing, and not even just when someone has died during training, which is also not something exclusive to Japanese wrestling. I'm not sure "there have been multiple scandals about this sort of thing" is really a great counterargument. There have been multiple scandals about it in American wrestling and that doesn't mean Stu Hart stretching - or, to use a less polite euphemism, "deliberately hurting for fun" - people isn't still commonly referred to with a wink and a nod. Anyway, my observation isn't based on a single incident so much as it is familiarity with Japan, how rampant it is in sumo, and elsewhere, like here.There are numerous stories sbout how Young Lions are abused (I recall Stan Hansen's book talked about some disturbing stuff). Abusing them is, of course, also a Suzuki-gun gimmick. If you believe that doesn't reflect any underlying reality, well... I don't have hidden cameras in any dojos, so we'll have to agree to disagree.
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Post by AwamoriRock on Oct 8, 2022 19:39:23 GMT -5
Right, that's definitely an unfair statement given there have been multiple scandals about that kind of thing, and not even just when someone has died during training, which is also not something exclusive to Japanese wrestling. I'm not sure "there have been multiple scandals about this sort of thing" is really a great counterargument. There have been multiple scandals about it in American wrestling and that doesn't mean Stu Hart stretching - or, to use a less polite euphemism, "deliberately hurting for fun" - people isn't still commonly referred to with a wink and a nod. Anyway, my observation isn't based on a single incident so much as it is familiarity with Japan, how rampant it is in sumo, and elsewhere, like here.There are numerous stories sbout how Young Lions are abused (I recall Stan Hansen's book talked about some disturbing stuff). Abusing them is, of course, also a Suzuki-gun gimmick. If you believe that doesn't reflect any underlying reality, well... I don't have hidden cameras in any dojos, so we'll have to agree to disagree. Nobody is asking about what you didn’t say, you’re being asked about what you did say. How is it applauded in Japan?
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Blade
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,943
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Post by Blade on Oct 8, 2022 21:27:41 GMT -5
I'm not sure "there have been multiple scandals about this sort of thing" is really a great counterargument. There have been multiple scandals about it in American wrestling and that doesn't mean Stu Hart stretching - or, to use a less polite euphemism, "deliberately hurting for fun" - people isn't still commonly referred to with a wink and a nod. Anyway, my observation isn't based on a single incident so much as it is familiarity with Japan, how rampant it is in sumo, and elsewhere, like here.There are numerous stories sbout how Young Lions are abused (I recall Stan Hansen's book talked about some disturbing stuff). Abusing them is, of course, also a Suzuki-gun gimmick. If you believe that doesn't reflect any underlying reality, well... I don't have hidden cameras in any dojos, so we'll have to agree to disagree. Nobody is asking about what you didn’t say, you’re being asked about what you did say. How is it applauded in Japan? Perhaps you could try reading the link I posted?
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Post by AwamoriRock on Oct 8, 2022 21:37:35 GMT -5
Nobody is asking about what you didn’t say, you’re being asked about what you did say. How is it applauded in Japan? Perhaps you could try reading the link I posted? The 8 year old orientalist one that says nothing about trainee abuse being applauded?
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Blade
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,943
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Post by Blade on Oct 8, 2022 21:58:30 GMT -5
Perhaps you could try reading the link I posted? The 8 year old orientalist one that says nothing about trainee abuse being applauded? I'd ask why precisely does behaviour like that get "normalised", but I'm not really seeing this leading to a productive discussion with you. So, agree to disagree. If you have some citations that show abuse stopped being rampant towards wrestling trainees sometime in the last eight years (or at any point, really), then I'd be interested to see it. Otherwise, I think we're done here given you seem to just want to start a fight, and I'm not particularly interested in indulging you.
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Post by AwamoriRock on Oct 8, 2022 22:16:01 GMT -5
The 8 year old orientalist one that says nothing about trainee abuse being applauded? I'd ask why precisely does behaviour like that get "normalised", but I'm not really seeing this leading to a productive discussion with you. So, agree to disagree. If you have some citations that show abuse stopped being rampant towards wrestling trainees sometime in the last eight years (or at any point, really), then I'd be interested to see it. Otherwise, I think we're done here given you seem to just want to start a fight, and I'm not particularly interested in indulging you. You’re not interested in answering the question of why you said it’s applauded. Not “normalized”, applauded. Nobody is arguing it doesn’t happen, hasn’t happened, or is bad, etc. (if anything I agree with you there) I don’t need to cite anything about a claim I’m not making. Nor would I be reasonably obligated to do so in regards to such a vague improvable claim. If you just used the wrong word just say it who cares, but it sounded a pretty aggressive claim.
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