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Post by chronocross on Nov 22, 2022 12:59:58 GMT -5
It seems like the fans just don't care about him, they tried the whole "he's got guts" angle and they chanted for Bobby to crush him last week.
I thought it would have been a fatal 4-way with Ali, Theory, Lashley and Rollins but he's just an afterthought.
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pinja
Unicron
Posts: 3,136
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Post by pinja on Nov 22, 2022 13:30:22 GMT -5
He will be repackaged as Tiger Ali ... Ali. He'll go on doing things of various nature in and outside of the ring.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Nov 22, 2022 14:03:30 GMT -5
The fatalism here is really notable. "Eh, what can you do? Such is life! Sometimes exciting, handsome, likeable wrestlers are helpless failures and no one can possibly change it. Also, surely this proves he lacks some ineffable intangible quality that would make anyone want to cheer him!"
I guess it's just the fundamental attribution error, but it happens so quickly and often results in such vicious resentment, I'm always baffled. This is the company that hired Samuray del goddamn Sol and had people just seething at him for being this inherently boring loser, instead of, like, a dude capable of doing the most mind-blowningly astounding spots anyone's ever seen.
Seems to me this is your traditional WWE problem of booking faces with no motivation and no distinct personality, combined with their familiar paradox that they can't get people over, because anyone booked to lose must be a loser who it doesn't mean anything to beat. Like, oh, we can't possibly present Mustafa Ali as an actual equal to someone like Bobby Lashley, because how could Lashley stay over if he's not superior to scrubs like Ali (and also that might be THE DREADED 50/50 BOOKING), and then we all turn around and scratch our heads about why people think Ali is a scrub.
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Post by ElmerFudd on Nov 22, 2022 14:13:09 GMT -5
He's a good in ring worker but there's nothing about the guy that I'm invested in as a character.
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Post by Rudy Gobert Weather Machine on Nov 22, 2022 14:20:37 GMT -5
Can it go in to the garbage so I don't have to watch these sad ass matches every week for another 2 months
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Post by hashtagdaley/JudasDay on Nov 22, 2022 15:26:05 GMT -5
It never goes anywhere with Ali. đ
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Schizo
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 3,918 
Member is Online
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Post by Schizo on Nov 22, 2022 15:34:07 GMT -5
Repackage him as Prince Ali Ababwa and hire a Indy guy to play his genie
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Nov 22, 2022 15:35:33 GMT -5
The fatalism here is really notable. "Eh, what can you do? Such is life! Sometimes exciting, handsome, likeable wrestlers are helpless failures and no one can possibly change it. Also, surely this proves he lacks some ineffable intangible quality that would make anyone want to cheer him!" I guess it's just the fundamental attribution error, but it happens so quickly and often results in such vicious resentment, I'm always baffled. This is the company that hired Samuray del goddamn Sol and had people just seething at him for being this inherently boring loser, instead of, like, a dude capable of doing the most mind-blowningly astounding spots anyone's ever seen. Seems to me this is your traditional WWE problem of booking faces with no motivation and no distinct personality, combined with their familiar paradox that they can't get people over, because anyone booked to lose must be a loser who it doesn't mean anything to beat. Like, oh, we can't possibly present Mustafa Ali as an actual equal to someone like Bobby Lashley, because how could Lashley stay over if he's not superior to scrubs like Ali (and also that might be THE DREADED 50/50 BOOKING), and then we all turn around and scratch our heads about why people think Ali is a scrub. Sometimes just it what it is. Like they could book Mustafa Ali as a total world beater who beats Lashley, Seth Rolins, and Brock Lesnar and I still wouldn't care. He's just not very interesting. Even if your booking is great and you are an extremely talented wrestler that doesn't always equate to someone being over. |
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Post by Instant Classic on Nov 22, 2022 17:15:43 GMT -5
Heâs a nice guy but heâs just so vanilla. Even more so in his new gear.
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Post by Friday Night SmackOwn on Nov 22, 2022 17:23:48 GMT -5
A shame that the Hacker thing never went anywhere and just got referenced in the albatross known as Retribution. Ali as a hacker who exposes wrongdoings in WWE had so much potential.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Nov 22, 2022 17:56:43 GMT -5
The fatalism here is really notable. "Eh, what can you do? Such is life! Sometimes exciting, handsome, likeable wrestlers are helpless failures and no one can possibly change it. Also, surely this proves he lacks some ineffable intangible quality that would make anyone want to cheer him!" I guess it's just the fundamental attribution error, but it happens so quickly and often results in such vicious resentment, I'm always baffled. This is the company that hired Samuray del goddamn Sol and had people just seething at him for being this inherently boring loser, instead of, like, a dude capable of doing the most mind-blowningly astounding spots anyone's ever seen. Seems to me this is your traditional WWE problem of booking faces with no motivation and no distinct personality, combined with their familiar paradox that they can't get people over, because anyone booked to lose must be a loser who it doesn't mean anything to beat. Like, oh, we can't possibly present Mustafa Ali as an actual equal to someone like Bobby Lashley, because how could Lashley stay over if he's not superior to scrubs like Ali (and also that might be THE DREADED 50/50 BOOKING), and then we all turn around and scratch our heads about why people think Ali is a scrub. So how do we resolve this? Like, if the issue is that he doesnât win enough, itâs easy enough to say âThrow some enhancement guys at himâ so he has a little something to give when he gets thrown Bobby Lashleyâs way, but all it takes is for someone to be genre-savvy and go âHe only beats jobbers but still loses to the big stars, he still ainât worth shitâ and the entire outside enhancement talent plot device is rendered useless. So then he needs to beat the big stars clean too. Which is fine, but then if losing clean is such a horrible fate, then surely it would hurt the other big stars if they lose clean, right? Why would it only hurt Ali to lose, but not Lashley or Seth Rollins? The only answer there is that a talent like Lashley or Rollins has reached an arbitrary point where theyâve âwon enoughâ and have enough credibility to spare that they CAN lose to someone without it hurting them. But as weâve seen over the course of history with the likes of Mick Foley and Chris Jericho, a wrestler only has so much of that in them before they become the guy that loses all the time themselves. And it has to be main event guys too. People on the same level as Ali, like a Chad Gable or a Ricochet, they need the wins themselves just as much, they canât spare a loss. So this is where your dirty and protected finishes come in, so at least someone can say âWell, they wouldâve won if not for x, y or zâ⊠Wait, whatâs that? They didnât REALLY beat them, so it doesnât count? And this is just the bookerman showing contempt for the audience by not providing a conclusive finish to a match? Guess we canât do those then! And ALL of that is before you factor in the fact that fans⊠They might not particularly care for Mustafa Ali for some reason and donât want him to be pushed. Be it because itâs at the expense of another wrestler on the roster that they like, or because they believe he isnât skilled enough to warrant it or whatever. How do you book around that? And keep in mind this is only within the context of booking ONE wrestler. Theyâve somehow gotta strike this balance with every single wrestler on the roster, because every fan has different favourites and a lot of them will let you hear about it if theyâre not satisfied. Itâs an impossible task. |
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Nov 22, 2022 19:25:57 GMT -5
So how do we resolve this? Like, if the issue is that he doesnât win enough, itâs easy enough to say âThrow some enhancement guys at himâ so he has a little something to give when he gets thrown Bobby Lashleyâs way, but all it takes is for someone to be genre-savvy and go âHe only beats jobbers but still loses to the big stars, he still ainât worth shitâ and the entire outside enhancement talent plot device is rendered useless. So then he needs to beat the big stars clean too. Which is fine, but then if losing clean is such a horrible fate, then surely it would hurt the other big stars if they lose clean, right? Why would it only hurt Ali to lose, but not Lashley or Seth Rollins? The only answer there is that a talent like Lashley or Rollins has reached an arbitrary point where theyâve âwon enoughâ and have enough credibility to spare that they CAN lose to someone without it hurting them. But as weâve seen over the course of history with the likes of Mick Foley and Chris Jericho, a wrestler only has so much of that in them before they become the guy that loses all the time themselves. And it has to be main event guys too. People on the same level as Ali, like a Chad Gable or a Ricochet, they need the wins themselves just as much, they canât spare a loss. So this is where your dirty and protected finishes come in, so at least someone can say âWell, they wouldâve won if not for x, y or zâ⊠Wait, whatâs that? They didnât REALLY beat them, so it doesnât count? And this is just the bookerman showing contempt for the audience by not providing a conclusive finish to a match? Guess we canât do those then! And ALL of that is before you factor in the fact that fans⊠They might not particularly care for Mustafa Ali for some reason and donât want him to be pushed. Be it because itâs at the expense of another wrestler on the roster that they like, or because they believe he isnât skilled enough to warrant it or whatever. How do you book around that? And keep in mind this is only within the context of booking ONE wrestler. Theyâve somehow gotta strike this balance with every single wrestler on the roster, because every fan has different favourites and a lot of them will let you hear about it if theyâre not satisfied. Itâs an impossible task. My answer here is something lots of people don't like: book from the orientation that literally every member of the roster is plausibly capable of beating every other member of the roster, all else equal. There can be state-level reasons why someone might be favored to win against someone else... someone has a particular weakness others have figured out how to exploit, someone has "put it all together" and has been running at the absolute top of their game, one guy "has the other guy's number," stuff like that. But on the trait-level, no one's in a different tier from anyone else. There is literally no other way I can think of that would erase the stigma of losing clean. Fans are trained to assume the wrestlers are in tiers, and that booking signifies what tiers they're in. If we see someone win, that means the bookers are behind them and it makes sense to care about them. If we see someone lose, it's just depressing to be a fan of someone the bookers aren't gonna push, so we give up. (And plenty of fans do this weird just-world thing where they know the results are predetermined but decide that a person booked to lose a lot must somehow be a real loser anyway.) So, make it so winning and losing have storyline explanations that aren't the person's inherent natural worth. This can range from really complex character stuff to simple "he's really on a hot streak!" sorts of things. And they actually are doing this with Ali! He lost to Theory because of his wounded ribs. It's just fans don't buy it's not really about tiering, because they've been trained to assume it is (and they are probably right). And it's not played up to be ABOUT anything. Is the problem that Ali's too aggressive, or his moveset's too limited, or he's not very savvy and let Theory goad him into a dumb move? This can be set up with two remarks from Graves during the course of the match, but it'd be huge because it'd provide even short TV matches with much better psychology, and it'd be dynamic. If Ali's problem is his moveset is too limited to adapt to having hurt ribs, then the audience knows it's a big deal if he busts out a new move. |
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Post by The Rick Jericho on Nov 22, 2022 19:30:05 GMT -5
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Nov 26, 2022 5:12:41 GMT -5
He came back and was being presented in a positive fashion, though. This only seems to have picked up some steam in the last few weeks especially. I'm not even sure if it'd be the Braun thing because it seems like he's the one that got heat for his remarks. I mean, you say that, but Braun was the guy who had the IC champion, a guy who didn't run away from much before, running away from him just the other week. He might have heat with the locker room but the office doesn't share the sentiment. Today in âPosts that have aged badlyâ⊠|
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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on Nov 26, 2022 10:27:21 GMT -5
Itâs going into a boot that will kick his ass again.
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Chiral
Salacious Crumb
Posts: 76,593 
Member is Online
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Post by Chiral on Nov 26, 2022 10:40:10 GMT -5
I mean, you say that, but Braun was the guy who had the IC champion, a guy who didn't run away from much before, running away from him just the other week. He might have heat with the locker room but the office doesn't share the sentiment. Today in âPosts that have aged badlyâ⊠Michael Cole voice: "Braun tweeted of FLOPPY FLOPPERS" |
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Post by tagteammatchplaya on Nov 26, 2022 13:35:47 GMT -5
I wish that Ali would catch fire somehow. That dude has a great story and is a legit nice guy. Need more of those. We with the way he's been getting treated on TV, he probably will catch fire, literally catch fire |
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Nov 26, 2022 13:39:36 GMT -5
I mean, you say that, but Braun was the guy who had the IC champion, a guy who didn't run away from much before, running away from him just the other week. He might have heat with the locker room but the office doesn't share the sentiment. Today in âPosts that have aged badlyâ⊠Nah, but this does show an interesting exception to the whole "losing clean" thing. The audience has been taught that superior wrestlers can lose clean to inferior wrestlers if it's done with a roll-up, backslide, or similar pinning maneuver. After all, the tiers aren't ranked by who's good at holding their opponents' shoulders to the mat for three seconds, but rather by who's the toughest manliest grr tough guy. |
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Dec 5, 2022 14:10:02 GMT -5
I know the âMuslim-American seeking acceptanceâ thing is something he keeps coming back to, but it would be a nice story for him to finally win that US Championship at some point. Just need to get the main event guys like Rollins and Lashley out of that orbit and get him some wins on the board.
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pinja
Unicron
Posts: 3,136
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Post by pinja on Dec 5, 2022 15:48:13 GMT -5
I know the âMuslim-American seeking acceptanceâ thing is something he keeps coming back to, but it would be a nice story for him to finally win that US Championship at some point. Just need to get the main event guys like Rollins and Lashley out of that orbit and get him some wins on the board. If trauma fuels his urge to become US champion, then that is more sad than inspiring and I want to tell him that there are probably better ways to feel like you belong then winning a belt. Also, if trauma fuels his urge to become US champion, then why doesn't it show in his performances? Why doesn't he fight like someone who desperately wants to belong? |
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