pinja
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Post by pinja on Dec 12, 2022 6:09:28 GMT -5
Talented or not, the notoriety of wrestlers in WWE is largely based on the brand and that is the company's mission statement for a long, long time now. Jinder Mahal's accomplishments would likely be more proportional to his influence if his incluence would have came from himself. But it didn't. The same goes for almost all wrestlers of his generation, hence why it is debated whether or not even Sheamus made an impression. I would argue he would have fared very well in earlier eras where the brand wasn't the star. He possibly would have fared better in terms of fan perception. Today it is hard to measure someone's true potential to leave a mark when they are so much more directed.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Dec 12, 2022 7:53:19 GMT -5
It's not that unusual. Most successful sports coaches tend to have had unremarkable playing careers, if they even played at all. By contrast, for example, Wayne Gretzky is absolutely god-tier even by today's standards but he was lackluster at best as a bench boss. I'd argue that he wasn't "unremarkable," just was rarely booked in a way that allowed him to show what he could actually do. His run as ROH World Champion was one of the few times he was able to just go in the ring.
Yeah unremarkable isn't quite the right word. Maybe "understated" would be better. I don't want to say "curtain jerker" or "career midcarder" because those don't really seem fair either.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Dec 12, 2022 7:54:40 GMT -5
The Undertaker rarely lost clean. Those that did defeat him include some of the biggest stars in WWE and... Vladimir Kozlov. Kozlov also had that unending feud with Triple H. WWE were really trying to make something of him for a minute there and kept throwing their biggest stars at him to crickets
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Dec 12, 2022 7:58:47 GMT -5
Rene Dupree was the youngest WWE wrestler to ever win a championship, winning the tag titles at the age of 19
If you consider Nicholas' reign legitimate with Braun, he was the one who ended that distinction for him.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Dec 12, 2022 7:59:02 GMT -5
You cannot teach what Wayne Gretzky could do. If you can, it starts at 6, not when you’re already a pro. Yeah, it's sort of like how Bobby Eaton didn't do a bunch of training others. I believe he tried, but a lot of what he did was based on his own instincts, and that's trickier to pass on, sort of like how many "gifted" kids end up failing to learn good study habits since they aren't used to needing them. It me
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Post by 67 more on Dec 12, 2022 11:21:17 GMT -5
The Undertaker rarely lost clean. Those that did defeat him include some of the biggest stars in WWE and... Vladimir Kozlov. With a f***ing scoop powerslam, no less.
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tafkaga
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Post by tafkaga on Dec 12, 2022 14:20:36 GMT -5
Renegade. He debuted with lots of hype, rushed to the TV title, had a pretty decent length run, and less than 6 months later he was a jobber.
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sungod2020
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Post by sungod2020 on Dec 12, 2022 19:06:03 GMT -5
I wouldn't call Randy Orton a nobody by any means, but for someone of his stature, he's accomplished way more than he should've. He had 10 WWE championship reigns, 4 World Heavyweight Title Runs, an IC and US title run, and four tag team title reigns. He's been a 20 year veteran, and has the most PPV appearances of any WWF/E superstar, past or present.
On paper, that sounds like he's an all-time great, but really, how many memorable feuds has he had? How many people have elevated from feuding with the third generation star? I know many people are quick to mention his feud with Foley during his legend killer phase, and WWE likes to force the idea that his feud with John Cena was one of the greatest of all time, but really, he's just a guy who's been around for a really long time thanks to his connections in the business.
I don't think many people would put him up there with the all time greats like Hogan, Rock, Austin, and Cena. Or even Undertaker, Ric Flair, Bret Hart, Roddy Piper or Mick Foley tier. Triple H, for as much flak as he got from the IWC in the 2000s is even ahead of him. I think someone on this forum said that because of his longevity, his presence developed an aquired taste, I may not be saying it right, but you know what I mean.
So yeah, I nominate the viper.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Dec 12, 2022 19:50:48 GMT -5
I wouldn't call Randy Orton a nobody by any means, but for someone of his stature, he's accomplished way more than he should've. He had 10 WWE championship reigns, 4 World Heavyweight Title Runs, an IC and US title run, and four tag team title reigns. He's been a 20 year veteran, and has the most PPV appearances of any WWF/E superstar, past or present. On paper, that sounds like he's an all-time great, but really, how many memorable feuds has he had? How many people have elevated from feuding with the third generation star? I know many people are quick to mention his feud with Foley during his legend killer phase, and WWE likes to force the idea that his feud with John Cena was one of the greatest of all time, but really, he's just a guy who's been around for a really long time thanks to his connections in the business. I don't think many people would put him up there with the all time greats like Hogan, Rock, Austin, and Cena. Or even Undertaker, Ric Flair, Bret Hart, Roddy Piper or Mick Foley tier. Triple H, for as much flak as he got from the IWC in the 2000s is even ahead of him. I think someone on this forum said that because of his longevity, his presence developed an aquired taste, I may not be saying it right, but you know what I mean. So yeah, I nominate the viper. Randy Orton does not fit this list one bit
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Post by Cyno on Dec 12, 2022 20:00:13 GMT -5
Randy Orton is the Triple H of his era. Never THE top guy like Austin, Rock, Cena, etc. but a perennial main eventer who never felt out of place with the World Championship around his waist.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Dec 12, 2022 20:08:08 GMT -5
Randy Orton is the Triple H of his era. Never THE top guy like Austin, Rock, Cena, etc. but a perennial main eventer who never felt out of place with the World Championship around his waist. A crucial guy you need to essentially do the dirty work. If he gave up 100 percent effort more times than not he would been one of those top guys but that was always his fault
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Dec 12, 2022 22:01:05 GMT -5
The Undertaker rarely lost clean. Those that did defeat him include some of the biggest stars in WWE and... Vladimir Kozlov. Kozlov also had that unending feud with Triple H. WWE were really trying to make something of him for a minute there and kept throwing their biggest stars at him to crickets Then he got a dancing gimmick that was actually really good. Kozlov and Santino was a way better tag team than it had any right to be.
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kidkamikaze10
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Post by kidkamikaze10 on Dec 12, 2022 22:08:58 GMT -5
A lot of Divas fit into this because of how badly WWE treated the division.
I don't think Del Rio counts, but only because he's far from a nobody in Mexico. Even if he deserves it.
Ezekiel Jackson fits though.
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Post by jason1980s on Dec 12, 2022 23:12:15 GMT -5
Renegade. He debuted with lots of hype, rushed to the TV title, had a pretty decent length run, and less than 6 months later he was a jobber. Until last year, I thought he was pretty successful for a while. I never knew that Jimmy Hart did the "Rick" thing to him I think the night after Halloween Havoc 95. I didn't know WCW soured on him so quickly. I don't agree with Ric Flair much and like he says, we can't blame Eric and Hogan for Rick's suicide but I do agree with him that they do deserve blame for pumping him up to be something he couldn't be so that Eric and Hogan could sign a guy who looked like the Warrior but Warrior wouldn't deal with them then.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Dec 13, 2022 1:52:14 GMT -5
Hard to believe that Curtis Axel was a former IC and Tag champion.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Dec 13, 2022 3:08:56 GMT -5
Ezekiel Jackson really seems like the perfect answer. Not memorable, not talented in any way, didn't have a long career in the business. However accomplishment wise he didn't do bad by winning both the ECW and IC titles. They really wanted him to be a big deal for a couple years and then probably realized he didn't have it and was pushed down the card.
Nobody is probably harsh but I would say Mike Rotunda overachieved. Two time TV Champion, Tag Team Champion on multiple occasions in both major companies, technically had a match with Hogan at Wrestlemania, had a four year upper midcard heel run in WWF where he was always booked well. That's a pretty good career for anybody and I would say overall he was just merely pretty solid as a talent. Not bad by any means but not really great at anything either.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 13, 2022 6:16:26 GMT -5
Talented or not, the notoriety of wrestlers in WWE is largely based on the brand and that is the company's mission statement for a long, long time now. Jinder Mahal's accomplishments would likely be more proportional to his influence if his incluence would have came from himself. But it didn't. The same goes for almost all wrestlers of his generation, hence why it is debated whether or not even Sheamus made an impression. I would argue he would have fared very well in earlier eras where the brand wasn't the star. He possibly would have fared better in terms of fan perception. Today it is hard to measure someone's true potential to leave a mark when they are so much more directed. I do think Sheamus is at least well on his way to Legend status, but if he was doing this stuff during the 80s territories he would have been spoken of in mythical terms.
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Post by Jaws the Shark on Dec 13, 2022 7:04:24 GMT -5
A couple of NWA world champions from between the WCW and TNA eras sprung to mind. Obviously the belt meant nowhere near what it did before, but most of the champions during that era had at least a certain degree of name recognition. But you had a couple of absolute no names like Gary Steele, and Mike Rapada. In fact, Rapada's whole legacy seems to have been as the guy who held the NWA title despite being a complete nobody.
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Post by sdoyle7798 on Dec 13, 2022 8:02:42 GMT -5
Who are some guys/gals in wrestling who didn’t leave much of an impact at all but still racked up some championship reigns or other accomplishments? I started this thinking of Ezekiel Jackson, a by-the-numbers hoss who once used a series of bodyslams as a finisher, yet was Intercontinental Champion and the very last man to hold the ECW Title. Who else are some decorated bums in wrestling lore? The body slams were a spot he did, but not his finish. For that he kind of rotated between a uranage, a lariat, and a torture rack.
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tafkaga
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Post by tafkaga on Dec 13, 2022 9:28:38 GMT -5
Ezekiel Jackson really seems like the perfect answer. Not memorable, not talented in any way, didn't have a long career in the business. However accomplishment wise he didn't do bad by winning both the ECW and IC titles. They really wanted him to be a big deal for a couple years and then probably realized he didn't have it and was pushed down the card. Nobody is probably harsh but I would say Mike Rotunda overachieved. Two time TV Champion, Tag Team Champion on multiple occasions in both major companies, technically had a match with Hogan at Wrestlemania, had a four year upper midcard heel run in WWF where he was always booked well. That's a pretty good career for anybody and I would say overall he was just merely pretty solid as a talent. Not bad by any means but not really great at anything either. To each their own, but Rotunda is a guy I enjoyed quite a lot when he was used well, e.g. Varsity Club, IRS. He just seemed like an under the radar talent who creative either saw something in or saw nothing in, but he always delivered when creative was good. After coming off that long run as IRS, it's hard for me to understand why WCW didn't use him either as a TV title contender or put him in a tag team, instead of jobber, NWO extra, and eventually the sad sap who wore those ugly shirts with the sleeves cut off and the WCW logo with the circle and line through it.
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