chazraps
Wade Wilson
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Post by chazraps on Dec 28, 2022 14:33:22 GMT -5
Perhaps the most ambitious *build* that WCW ever put together for a single match/event. A quarter-century ago tonight. Let's get into it.
I watched the Monday Nitro, Worldwide and Saturday Night episodes from this week and got all excited all over again*. I know the main event is going to have a needlessly overly convoluted ending and disappoint like it did all those years ago, but I find myself just as excited for DDP-Hennig, Nash-Giant and Dean-Eddie as I did as a sixth grader.
Anyone else rewatching this today? What are you memories or watching the show live or at the time?
*Considered watching WCW {pRo} but no amount of nostalgia can get me to endure late-era Chris Cruise commentary.
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tafkaga
Samurai Cop
the Dogfather
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Post by tafkaga on Dec 28, 2022 14:41:34 GMT -5
I'm watching through 97, currently at Fall Brawl. The seeds of all the matches you mentioned have already been planted by this point. I guess I never realized how far they were looking ahead.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
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Post by chazraps on Dec 28, 2022 14:50:08 GMT -5
So Eddie Guerrero vs Dean Malenko is an absolute treasure. The crowd is so, SO hot - they're counting along with Dean punching Eddie ON THE GROUND! I've never heard this match mentioned along with the classics these two had together and the great work they both did in all of 1997 - but this and the hot crowd is absolutely worth checking out. If you revisit anything from this show, check this out. Now that I've lead with something positive that I don't want overlooked - holy shit the level of dread I got starting this show... being reminded that both the "Ref pulled out of a hat" bullshit and the Kevin Nash not being there both not being announced UNTIL THE START OF THE PAY-PER-VIEW. And then you have some of the top talent in the world in Rey Mysterio, Ultimo Dragon, Harlem Heat, Mortis etc just sitting in the audience "As a show of solidarity" - like, I get it as a way to get everyone on the show and make this the visual of WCW showing unity - but this was built as the biggest show of not just the year but the promotion's history and they couldn't find a place for them on the card? I'm watching through 97, currently at Fall Brawl. The seeds of all the matches you mentioned have already been planted by this point. I guess I never realized how far they were looking ahead. You doing Worldwide too by chance? Heenan unfiltered is hilarious. Honestly, Worldwide Heenan might be my all time favorite Heenan - just a super quick jokes with nobody yelling in his ear.
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tafkaga
Samurai Cop
the Dogfather
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Member is Online
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Post by tafkaga on Dec 28, 2022 15:00:01 GMT -5
So Eddie Guerrero vs Dean Malenko is an absolute treasure. The crowd is so, SO hot - they're counting along with Dean punching Eddie ON THE GROUND! I've never heard this match mentioned along with the classics these two had together and the great work they both did in all of 1997 - but this and the hot crowd is absolutely worth checking out. If you revisit anything from this show, check this out. Now that I've lead with something positive that I don't want overlooked - holy shit the level of dread I got starting this show... being reminded that both the "Ref pulled out of a hat" bullshit and the Kevin Nash not being there both not being announced UNTIL THE START OF THE PAY-PER-VIEW. And then you have some of the top talent in the world in Rey Mysterio, Ultimo Dragon, Harlem Heat, Mortis etc just sitting in the audience "As a show of solidarity" - like, I get it as a way to get everyone on the show and make this the visual of WCW showing unity - but this was built as the biggest show of not just the year but the promotion's history and they couldn't find a place for them on the card? I'm watching through 97, currently at Fall Brawl. The seeds of all the matches you mentioned have already been planted by this point. I guess I never realized how far they were looking ahead. You doing Worldwide too by chance? Heenan unfiltered is hilarious. Honestly, Worldwide Heenan might be my all time favorite Heenan - just a super quick jokes with nobody yelling in his ear. Nope, just Nitro. I didn't know Peacock had Worldwide but now I have to check out Worldwide Heenan.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,989
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Post by chazraps on Dec 28, 2022 15:02:59 GMT -5
So Eddie Guerrero vs Dean Malenko is an absolute treasure. The crowd is so, SO hot - they're counting along with Dean punching Eddie ON THE GROUND! I've never heard this match mentioned along with the classics these two had together and the great work they both did in all of 1997 - but this and the hot crowd is absolutely worth checking out. If you revisit anything from this show, check this out. Now that I've lead with something positive that I don't want overlooked - holy shit the level of dread I got starting this show... being reminded that both the "Ref pulled out of a hat" bullshit and the Kevin Nash not being there both not being announced UNTIL THE START OF THE PAY-PER-VIEW. And then you have some of the top talent in the world in Rey Mysterio, Ultimo Dragon, Harlem Heat, Mortis etc just sitting in the audience "As a show of solidarity" - like, I get it as a way to get everyone on the show and make this the visual of WCW showing unity - but this was built as the biggest show of not just the year but the promotion's history and they couldn't find a place for them on the card? You doing Worldwide too by chance? Heenan unfiltered is hilarious. Honestly, Worldwide Heenan might be my all time favorite Heenan - just a super quick jokes with nobody yelling in his ear. Nope, just Nitro. I didn't know Peacock had Worldwide but now I have to check out Worldwide Heenan. Peacock doesn't, but there are... let's just say check your DMs.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
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Post by chazraps on Dec 28, 2022 15:12:23 GMT -5
JJ Dillion just made the referee announcement. This is so stupid and makes no sense. Absolutely no sense. Why am I rewatching this? Dread is setting in.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
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Post by chazraps on Dec 28, 2022 15:27:14 GMT -5
Goldberg knocks Steve McMichael off the apron and he gingerly falls through the table and the crowd chants "E-C-W! E-C-W!" Love it.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
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Post by chazraps on Dec 28, 2022 15:31:10 GMT -5
Hold-up, the promoted Benoit vs Raven match isn't happening EITHER?!
Followed by a broken dishwasher of a promo by Benoit before this newly announced match with Saturn that just lets all the air out of the crowd's tires.
This is a very troubled show.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
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Post by chazraps on Dec 28, 2022 16:06:41 GMT -5
HOW LONG IS THIS LEX LUGER VS BUFF BAGWELL MATCH?!
Three nWo member run-ins and an entire crowd of WCW wrestlers doing NOTHING - yeah, WCW is "more united than ever."
This is a bad show and the roster really looks bad. This crowd has been dead and their graves vandalized.
This having WCW's all time best buy-rate, it's evident why anyone making this their first PPV would get a bad taste in their mouth and never order one again.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Dec 28, 2022 16:13:05 GMT -5
This PPV should have been WCW's Wrestlemania 3....An event that was talked about for years to come. Instead, it was WCW's December to Dismember 06....an event that was talked about for years to come but for the absolute wrong reasons.
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Post by chronocross on Dec 28, 2022 16:14:17 GMT -5
They should have Lex beat Bagwell here on PPV to get some momentum, but for some reason they have a rematch on Nitro the next night and Luger beats him clean as a sheet.
As for Sting/Hogan, at the time I didn't mind the match as I was happy to see Sting win but they put the rematch on free TV the next night with no ending to get fans to tune into the first episode of Thunder. That is where I started to lose faith in WCW.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,515
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Dec 28, 2022 16:14:23 GMT -5
HOW LONG IS THIS LEX LUGER VS BUFF BAGWELL MATCH?! Three nWo member run-ins and an entire crowd of WCW wrestlers doing NOTHING - yeah, WCW is "more united than ever." This is a bad show and the roster really looks bad. This crowd has been dead and their graves vandalized. This having WCW's all time best buy-rate, it's evident why anyone making this their first PPV would get a bad taste in their mouth and never order one again. Luger was WCW's hottest babyface for most of 97. He was also Champion. And here he loses to Bagwell. Jesus Christ.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Dec 28, 2022 16:19:35 GMT -5
It's not an exaggeration to say that the Monday Night Wars would have had a very different outcome had they booked this right.
It's not what killed them but, it's where they started to blow a big lead.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
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Post by chazraps on Dec 28, 2022 16:41:10 GMT -5
I don't blame the crowd for being dead at this point, but Hennig-DDP was soooooo much better than the response they got.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
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Post by chazraps on Dec 28, 2022 16:49:54 GMT -5
I always forget that Bret was the ref for Eric-Larry, I misremember him as just being the enforcer for the main event.
Like, Bret reffing Hogan-Sting on the grounds of "Who knows more about getting screwed by a referee than me?" is a big deal and immediately rightfully inserts him into the main event picture and adds intrigue. I'll defend that, or at least defend it as an idea and the logic behind it.
Bret reffing the Eric-Larry match is so lame.
Scott Hall deserves all the props in the world for getting Larry the most over he'd been in 15 years and getting people to really care about this - but how the hell is this the semi-main?
This is a mess.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
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Post by chazraps on Dec 28, 2022 16:59:18 GMT -5
Bret punching Eric and putting Scott Hall in the sharpshooter is the biggest pop of the night so far.
Like, massive, massive, massive.
Bret could have just saved the show. That match was dying a slow plodding death and Bret woke everyone up and electrified them just by being Bret.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
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Post by chazraps on Dec 28, 2022 17:09:20 GMT -5
Sting's in the ring now. Amazing entrance. He's tan, in shape and looks great.
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DragonMasterP
King Koopa
Wait, I turned 30? How'd that happen?
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Post by DragonMasterP on Dec 28, 2022 17:22:33 GMT -5
I think the main event turning out the way it did was one hundred percent Hogan’s fault and I’ll take that to the grave.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
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Post by chazraps on Dec 28, 2022 17:27:47 GMT -5
Yo...Hogan vs Sting f***ING SUCKS.
A lot is made of the bad finish, and it speaks how bad the finish is that the entire rest of the match is BAAAAAAAD!
Like, really f***ing bad.
Hogan alternates beating Sting up and stalling outside the ring to jawjack with fans. The entire match, Sting's offense consists of an overly-long headlock and no-selling a single suplex.
Even had there been a fast-count finish, that entire match makes zero sense. Hogan dominates him and pins him. There's no room for question or objection. Clean as a sheet.
Then Bret restarts it, Sting comes alive and beats Hogan quickly. The crowd initially pops, and then gets really quiet waiting for some other shoe to drop that never drops, then once the ring's been filled with WCW talent for a while and Sting raises the belt - the crowd cheers again.
It's telling that the legacy is how bad the finish is, overshadowing what a terrible rest of the show it was.
If you're feeling nostalgic - watch Malenko vs Eddie and then maybe skip ahead to Goldberg vs Mongo and then just shut this shit off. It's so, soooooo much worse than I remember.
Like, Starrcade 98 was bad, but WCW was super snakebit by massive injuries across the roster so an argument could be made that they did the best that they could.
Starrcade 96 was an excellent event that looked stellar on paper and over-delivered.
Starrcade 97 is really, really bad. I regret getting myself so excited for it and then actually watching it.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
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Post by The Ichi on Dec 28, 2022 17:36:07 GMT -5
I think the main event turning out the way it did was one hundred percent Hogan’s fault and I’ll take that to the grave. Is that an unpopular take? It was clear Hogan's shitty ego is why things ended how they did.
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