asuka007
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 21,554
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Post by asuka007 on Dec 31, 2022 20:32:37 GMT -5
As for the Asuka streak, it's got to be seen in context. Carmella cashed in on Charlotte only two days later. Had Asuka won at Mania, her streak would have very likely ended via Carmella. In those circumstances, I think they made the right choice, especially as they were careful to give both Charlotte and Ronda major wins ahead of what was then being thought of as a potential WM 35 main event.
No, Charlotte was the LAST person who should have ended Asuka’s streak. It was another “ accolade” WWE forced on her to try and get fans to see her as “the best.” Also the WAY they did it, sucked quite frankly. Also they killed Sasha’s momentum in 2016 to make Charlotte look better. Rhea Got cut off at the knees two years in a row by having Charlotte beat her in title matches. It took her a long time to recover in both cases. Etc. Becky is the only person who came out of feuding with Charlotte better than they went in.
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Post by theironyuppie on Dec 31, 2022 20:40:33 GMT -5
As for the Asuka streak, it's got to be seen in context. Carmella cashed in on Charlotte only two days later. Had Asuka won at Mania, her streak would have very likely ended via Carmella. In those circumstances, I think they made the right choice, especially as they were careful to give both Charlotte and Ronda major wins ahead of what was then being thought of as a potential WM 35 main event.
No, Charlotte was the LAST person who should have ended Asuka’s streak. It was another “ accolade” WWE forced on her to try and get fans to see her as “the best.” Also the WAY they did it, sucked quite frankly. Also they killed Sasha’s momentum in 2016 to make Charlotte look better. Rhea Got cut off at the knees two years in a row by having Charlotte beat her in title matches. It took her a long time to recover in both cases. Etc. Becky is the only person who came out of feuding with Charlotte better than they went in.
Sure. I'm just saying by the time they did it, there weren't really good alternatives. As for Sasha, they were telegraphing a Charlotte/Bayley feud--not everything worked in it, but they wanted to keep Sasha face and give Bayley a big face push, which limited their options. The MITB loss was hard, but I think what wound up hurting Rhea most after that loss in 2021 was that she got shunted to the tag division then got barely any TV time for months, it's such a contrast to now where she's a featured player on Raw and gets loads of time every week. With the 2020 one, I agree it would have been a cool moment for Rhea to win, but my guess is that things changing with COVID lead to their match's outcome changing too, they probably wouldn't have done the Charlotte-on-two-shows thing if WWE was still touring.
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Post by polarbearpete on Dec 31, 2022 20:53:36 GMT -5
Man, people get so weird about Charlotte Flair. She’s over with the crowd, fantastic in the ring, has had a ton of memorable moments and matches, and yes does usually revolve around the title scene only.
I think it’s warranted based on her talent, but even if you disagree, there’s no need to either make things up about her like happens all the time or bash her for plastic surgery or divorces. Grow up.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jan 1, 2023 1:11:59 GMT -5
As for the Asuka streak, it's got to be seen in context. Carmella cashed in on Charlotte only two days later. Had Asuka won at Mania, her streak would have very likely ended via Carmella. In those circumstances, I think they made the right choice, especially as they were careful to give both Charlotte and Ronda major wins ahead of what was then being thought of as a potential WM 35 main event.
Honestly to me Carmella cashing in on a weakened Asuka to steal her streak is kind've a better story? It gives Carmella some big trophy she can pull out for credibility later, while not hurting Asuka since everyone knows that she did so in the most underhanded way possible. Having Charlotte win it is like when they gave Baron Corbin the king gimmick... it's just ANOTHER of the countless accolades they've handed to them instead of to someone that could have actually used it.
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Post by theironyuppie on Jan 1, 2023 2:57:47 GMT -5
As for the Asuka streak, it's got to be seen in context. Carmella cashed in on Charlotte only two days later. Had Asuka won at Mania, her streak would have very likely ended via Carmella. In those circumstances, I think they made the right choice, especially as they were careful to give both Charlotte and Ronda major wins ahead of what was then being thought of as a potential WM 35 main event.
Honestly to me Carmella cashing in on a weakened Asuka to steal her streak is kind've a better story? It gives Carmella some big trophy she can pull out for credibility later, while not hurting Asuka since everyone knows that she did so in the most underhanded way possible. Having Charlotte win it is like when they gave Baron Corbin the king gimmick... it's just ANOTHER of the countless accolades they've handed to them instead of to someone that could have actually used it.
I guess they felt the 'I beat Charlotte TWICE! I beat Asuka TWICE!' story was better for her.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Jan 1, 2023 3:02:34 GMT -5
The losses to Carmella hurt Asuka more than the losses to Flair. Like, what's worse, just being beaten fair and square on the night or being made to look silly because James Ellsworth keeps interfering?
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,335
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Post by Mozenrath on Jan 1, 2023 3:06:32 GMT -5
The losses to Carmella hurt Asuka more than the losses to Flair. Like, what's worse, just being beaten fair and square on the night or being made to look silly because James Ellsworth keeps interfering? That feud was absolute poison for Asuka, honestly.
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Post by theironyuppie on Jan 1, 2023 3:47:47 GMT -5
The losses to Carmella hurt Asuka more than the losses to Flair. Like, what's worse, just being beaten fair and square on the night or being made to look silly because James Ellsworth keeps interfering? That feud was absolute poison for Asuka, honestly. I honestly think it was important for Becky that she didn't feud with Carmella around that time. She got the winning streak story while Charlotte was out injured (she'd been working with ruptured implants for three months at the point she finally took time off after MITB) and Asuka was having those embarrassing Carmella matches.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Jan 1, 2023 4:16:23 GMT -5
That feud was absolute poison for Asuka, honestly. I honestly think it was important for Becky that she didn't feud with Carmella around that time. She got the winning streak story while Charlotte was out injured (she'd been working with ruptured implants for three months at the point she finally took time off after MITB) and Asuka was having those embarrassing Carmella matches. Looking back maybe they should've had Asuka beat Charlotte for the title and then have Becky end Asuka's streak. She actually would've benefitted from it at that point and also would've played into her winning streak by going against the woman with the ultimate win streak. Only thing is then how to handle Carmella's cash in. Having her cash in on Becky would've been more effective in getting more heat on her. I don't know if you do it right after Becky beats Asuka though as that would be a big moment in itself and you wouldn't want that overshadowed however at the same time it wouldn't be as effective in getting Carmella over. Or I guess you could just have Carmella fail the cash in. However she was the first woman MITB so you probably don't want a failed cash in right away and I think they also saw her as a long term main eventer at that point and probably wouldn't want to her to get jobbed in such an embarrassing fashion like that.
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Jan 1, 2023 5:17:10 GMT -5
I honestly think it was important for Becky that she didn't feud with Carmella around that time. She got the winning streak story while Charlotte was out injured (she'd been working with ruptured implants for three months at the point she finally took time off after MITB) and Asuka was having those embarrassing Carmella matches. Looking back maybe they should've had Asuka beat Charlotte for the title and then have Becky end Asuka's streak. She actually would've benefitted from it at that point and also would've played into her winning streak by going against the woman with the ultimate win streak. Only thing is then how to handle Carmella's cash in. Having her cash in on Becky would've been more effective in getting more heat on her. I don't know if you do it right after Becky beats Asuka though as that would be a big moment in itself and you wouldn't want that overshadowed however at the same time it wouldn't be as effective in getting Carmella over. Or I guess you could just have Carmella fail the cash in. However she was the first woman MITB so you probably don't want a failed cash in right away and I think they also saw her as a long term main eventer at that point and probably wouldn't want to her to get jobbed in such an embarrassing fashion like that. I will always say that it should have been Ember to end Asuka's streak. Ember was the one that Asuka had to use underhanded tactics to beat in matches. In the Rumble, Asuka only got the better of Ember due to Ember's injury. That whole storyline should have paid off with Ember being the first to defeat Asuka. Asuka saying "Ember is ready for Asuka" would have made a lot more sense than saying it for Charlotte.
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Post by Feyrhausen on Jan 1, 2023 7:40:46 GMT -5
Looking back maybe they should've had Asuka beat Charlotte for the title and then have Becky end Asuka's streak. She actually would've benefitted from it at that point and also would've played into her winning streak by going against the woman with the ultimate win streak. Only thing is then how to handle Carmella's cash in. Having her cash in on Becky would've been more effective in getting more heat on her. I don't know if you do it right after Becky beats Asuka though as that would be a big moment in itself and you wouldn't want that overshadowed however at the same time it wouldn't be as effective in getting Carmella over. Or I guess you could just have Carmella fail the cash in. However she was the first woman MITB so you probably don't want a failed cash in right away and I think they also saw her as a long term main eventer at that point and probably wouldn't want to her to get jobbed in such an embarrassing fashion like that. I will always say that it should have been Ember to end Asuka's streak. Ember was the one that Asuka had to use underhanded tactics to beat in matches. In the Rumble, Asuka only got the better of Ember due to Ember's injury. That whole storyline should have paid off with Ember being the first to defeat Asuka. Asuka saying "Ember is ready for Asuka" would have made a lot more sense than saying it for Charlotte. It would also have potentially made a new star. Instead of piling another accolade on a top star who doesnt need it.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 1, 2023 10:18:15 GMT -5
It dawns on me any time I think about commenting on Flair’s work that I simply haven’t watched her wrestle enough to say anything with major confidence. But from the outside looking in, I’d say this:
-Whatever one thinks of the way she’s been booked over the years, this *is* the first chance for the new booking regime to try things out with her. Yes, she instantly got the belt back, and no, it doesn’t sound like everything in the booking lately is setting the world on fire, but it’s still a different creative team, which could mean a different creative direction with her this time around.
-That said, this seems to continue to spotlight what keeps seeming to be the case when looking at results on paper and to reactions online: Smackdown apparently just doesn’t have enough depth to support its own women’s division with its own title.
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Post by mistery on Jan 1, 2023 10:22:45 GMT -5
It dawns on me any time I think about commenting on Flair’s work that I simply haven’t watched her wrestle enough to say anything with major confidence. But from the outside looking in, I’d say this: -Whatever one thinks of the way she’s been booked over the years, this *is* the first chance for the new booking regime to try things out with her. Yes, she instantly got the belt back, and no, it doesn’t sound like everything in the booking lately is setting the world on fire, but it’s still a different creative team, which could mean a different creative direction with her this time around. -That said, this seems to continue to spotlight what keeps seeming to be the case when looking at results on paper and to reactions online: Smackdown just doesn’t seem to have enough depth to support its own women’s division with its own title. I think the best way to describe Charlotte's work is that when she has good matches, they are great. However on the flip side, when she has bad matches, they are REALLY bad. Like trainwreck, worst stuff you will see on a major wrestling show kind of bad. There's pretty much no middle ground when it comes to her. And a lot of her bad matches can be attributed almost solely due to her attitude, where she just doesn't sell for the other person and tries to sandbag them. She's let her attitude leak through in a handful of interviews as well. The most notable ones being her interview with ESPN during the buildup to Wrestlemania 35, where she got REALLY pissy that she was referred to as the daughter of Ric Flair, and later that night, got the Smackdown Women's Championship, after getting into an argument backstage over it. The original plan was Asuka vs Mandy vs Sonya for the title, but they made a last minute change like an hour or two before the show to give Charlotte the title, as she was incredibly unhappy with that ESPN interview. You could tell politics were at play since a lot of the SD women were outright condemning the match and Asuka was pissed because she felt used by WWE, as she was doing media tours to get Japanese fans to buy Wrestlemania before they made the decision to put the title back on Charlotte solely to keep her happy. The other notable one was her interview on After The Bell, where she pretty explicitly said that she needs the title to be relevant and she can't work in feuds without it.
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Post by SneakMan on Jan 1, 2023 10:47:46 GMT -5
It dawns on me any time I think about commenting on Flair’s work that I simply haven’t watched her wrestle enough to say anything with major confidence. But from the outside looking in, I’d say this: -Whatever one thinks of the way she’s been booked over the years, this *is* the first chance for the new booking regime to try things out with her. Yes, she instantly got the belt back, and no, it doesn’t sound like everything in the booking lately is setting the world on fire, but it’s still a different creative team, which could mean a different creative direction with her this time around. Eh, Charlotte was around in Hunter-booked NXT and got a god push while she was down there, it just wasn't quite as obnoxious as it was on the main roster. She was still presented as the be-all end-all of women's wrestling from pretty much the moment she debuted so I expect her booking under the McMahon-Helmsley Regime will be a slight improvement at best.
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Push R Truth
Patti Mayonnaise
Unique and Special Snowflake, and a pants-less heathen.
Perpetually Constipated
Posts: 39,327
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Post by Push R Truth on Jan 1, 2023 11:42:42 GMT -5
Watch her get a Roman style push. She's drop the belt in 2026... maybe
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Post by BorneAgain on Jan 1, 2023 12:14:28 GMT -5
Given how much Charlotte's been given the spotlight and generally highlighted for almost her entire run, I can't blame anyone who looks at her returning to immediately win the title and doesn't really feel like giving the booking the benefit of the doubt here. Could her overall presentation and handling be different this time? Sure, but given the propensity by the company to go with really safe choices for a lot of their champions/major talents at the moment I'm not holding my breath that this megapush of Charlotte will be that much of a contrast.
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kevin
El Dandy
Posts: 7,510
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Post by kevin on Jan 1, 2023 12:36:52 GMT -5
Watch her get a Roman style push. She's drop the belt in 2026... maybe I can imagine the threads we will get if Charlotte holds one belt for two years and both for one.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Jan 1, 2023 12:40:12 GMT -5
I'm not surprised the title change got a big reaction. It doesn't mean it was the right call in that moment. MJF could lose the AEW World Title to Shawn Dean next week and it would get a massive pop. It would still be stupid. I just think the booker in me says you already got a big crowd tuning in to see Cena. You have the big moment in Charlotte returning. Book the match a week or two from now. Plus I'm not a fan of the short 1 minute fluke title changes especially with how often they happen these days when you consider the MITB cash ins.
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Post by polarbearpete on Jan 1, 2023 12:47:29 GMT -5
It dawns on me any time I think about commenting on Flair’s work that I simply haven’t watched her wrestle enough to say anything with major confidence. But from the outside looking in, I’d say this: -Whatever one thinks of the way she’s been booked over the years, this *is* the first chance for the new booking regime to try things out with her. Yes, she instantly got the belt back, and no, it doesn’t sound like everything in the booking lately is setting the world on fire, but it’s still a different creative team, which could mean a different creative direction with her this time around. -That said, this seems to continue to spotlight what keeps seeming to be the case when looking at results on paper and to reactions online: Smackdown just doesn’t seem to have enough depth to support its own women’s division with its own title. I think the best way to describe Charlotte's work is that when she has good matches, they are great. However on the flip side, when she has bad matches, they are REALLY bad. Like trainwreck, worst stuff you will see on a major wrestling show kind of bad. There's pretty much no middle ground when it comes to her. And a lot of her bad matches can be attributed almost solely due to her attitude, where she just doesn't sell for the other person and tries to sandbag them. She's let her attitude leak through in a handful of interviews as well. The most notable ones being her interview with ESPN during the buildup to Wrestlemania 35, where she got REALLY pissy that she was referred to as the daughter of Ric Flair, and later that night, got the Smackdown Women's Championship, after getting into an argument backstage over it. The original plan was Asuka vs Mandy vs Sonya for the title, but they made a last minute change like an hour or two before the show to give Charlotte the title, as she was incredibly unhappy with that ESPN interview. You could tell politics were at play since a lot of the SD women were outright condemning the match and Asuka was pissed because she felt used by WWE, as she was doing media tours to get Japanese fans to buy Wrestlemania before they made the decision to put the title back on Charlotte solely to keep her happy. The other notable one was her interview on After The Bell, where she pretty explicitly said that she needs the title to be relevant and she can't work in feuds without it. Show me a credible source that said she got in an argument backstage at Smackdown to get the women’s title before Mania 35. Sounds like you’re making stuff up. Meltzer said it was because Vince wanted her to have gold going into the match at Mania to make it as big as possible.
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Jan 1, 2023 15:19:56 GMT -5
I honestly think it was important for Becky that she didn't feud with Carmella around that time. She got the winning streak story while Charlotte was out injured (she'd been working with ruptured implants for three months at the point she finally took time off after MITB) and Asuka was having those embarrassing Carmella matches. Looking back maybe they should've had Asuka beat Charlotte for the title and then have Becky end Asuka's streak. She actually would've benefitted from it at that point and also would've played into her winning streak by going against the woman with the ultimate win streak. Only thing is then how to handle Carmella's cash in. Having her cash in on Becky would've been more effective in getting more heat on her. I don't know if you do it right after Becky beats Asuka though as that would be a big moment in itself and you wouldn't want that overshadowed however at the same time it wouldn't be as effective in getting Carmella over. Or I guess you could just have Carmella fail the cash in. However she was the first woman MITB so you probably don't want a failed cash in right away and I think they also saw her as a long term main eventer at that point and probably wouldn't want to her to get jobbed in such an embarrassing fashion like that. My idea during that Mania was have Carmella hide under the ring after the Women's Battle Royal, and pop out while Asuka is celebrating. You get the win streak off Asuka while giving her a boost, and avoid giving more over push to the Queen of the overpush
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