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Post by polarbearpete on Jun 28, 2023 9:03:50 GMT -5
So that's the first thing I've seen that confirms Foley actually was supposed to fall through the cell, and it wasn't just an accident. From what I recall the section of the roof Foley was going to fall through should have done so slowly that he could roll down the broken roof part (I think? Can’t remember how Foley described it). Instead he got the quick rough landing. Yeah he didn’t plan on falling through like he did. They assumed it would open a little in the corner, he could crawl through head first with Taker holding his legs and then Taker would drop him from there. He talked about it on his podcast this week.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Jun 28, 2023 9:25:18 GMT -5
I'd still like to know what he meant by "they've killed him" during that match... I thought it was "that killed him" Yeah it's possible. I would need to rewatch it. I always thought "they've killed him" was a pretty telling statement if that's what he said.
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Post by Aceorton on Jun 28, 2023 9:28:03 GMT -5
I'd still like to know what he meant by "they've killed him" during that match... I thought it was "that killed him" I hear "they" and have wondered if it was a slip and JR meant McMahon/Russo/Ferrara or whoever else encouraged these crazy bumps.
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Post by polarbearpete on Jun 28, 2023 9:42:49 GMT -5
Thing is, the crazy bumps were pretty much all Foley’s doing, as he was terrified of stinking up the joint after the first Cell match between HBK and Taker was so good. He was also concerned due to the shape he was in and Taker going in with a broken foot, and felt he needed to add crazy bumps at the beginning to convince people it was a good match.
Seems he had to do some pretty lengthy convincing to get Taker and then Vince to agree to let him get thrown off the Cell. He mentions on his podcast that he tried to downplay the danger of the spot to Vince and play it off as no big deal, telling Vince that if Taker was on the outside and he wanted to drop an elbow and Taker move then he would be okay with it, so this is no different.
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Post by Aceorton on Jun 28, 2023 10:39:39 GMT -5
Thing is, the crazy bumps were pretty much all Foley’s doing, as he was terrified of stinking up the joint after the first Cell match between HBK and Taker was so good. He was also concerned due to the shape he was in and Taker going in with a broken foot, and felt he needed to add crazy bumps at the beginning to convince people it was a good match. Seems he had to do some pretty lengthy convincing to get Taker and then Vince to agree to let him get thrown off the Cell. He mentions on his podcast that he tried to downplay the danger of the spot to Vince and play it off as no big deal, telling Vince that if Taker was on the outside and he wanted to drop an elbow and Taker move then he would be okay with it, so this is no different. Maybe "enabled" is a better word than "encouraged," then. Them allowing Foley to convince them this was no biggie and would make a more exciting show was tantamount to "killing him."
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Post by Jindrak Mark on Jun 28, 2023 12:17:31 GMT -5
Something I didn't realize until years later was how there was barely any build for this match. I thought it was like an epic culmination of their on again-off again 2 year feud but it wasn't treated like that at all. They had both just finished their respective feuds with Austin and Kane and it felt like they were paired together again just to give them something to do that month.
On TV it wasn't this big thing that felt like it needed a cell match. I think Foley has even commented on how he barely got any reaction when he made his entrance. It wasn't this real hot feud or anything and he thought they had to do something crazy to get people's attention.
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Post by Jumpin' Jesse Walsh on Jun 28, 2023 18:51:58 GMT -5
Scott Keith no doubt typing up a thinkpiece right now about how Mick's falls actually weren't that impressive.
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Post by THE FVNKER on Jun 28, 2023 19:37:27 GMT -5
Didn't they do something like this like 3-4 years ago? 5 years ago Foley did a 20 Years of Hell special on the Network. That said, this was kind of disappointing. Not expecting anything new, everything possible about that match has been discussed. They didn’t even watch the complete match. I'm not even trying to be negative when I say that I have no earthly idea what else could possibly be said about this match. There's got to be thousands of hours between all the things WWE has put out, YouTube fan videos and Podcasts like STW and all that.
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Post by THE FVNKER on Jun 28, 2023 19:59:52 GMT -5
From what I recall the section of the roof Foley was going to fall through should have done so slowly that he could roll down the broken roof part (I think? Can’t remember how Foley described it). Instead he got the quick rough landing. Yeah he didn’t plan on falling through like he did. They assumed it would open a little in the corner, he could crawl through head first with Taker holding his legs and then Taker would drop him from there. He talked about it on his podcast this week. I still think they're working when they say it wasn't supposed to break through. I feel like that's why Foley didn't go for any air at all on the Chokeslam, and it broke through almost as soon as Foley made contact with it. I think him crawling through was a backup plan. They wouldn't gimmick it to break halfway and risk Mick not being able to take a flat back bump. If it was just the corner imagine if it was just small enough to fit him through, he could've died. Also, I wasn't there nor am I either wrestler so I have no idea what I'm talking about 🤷♂️
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Post by Limity (BLM) on Jun 29, 2023 2:30:00 GMT -5
Undertaker: I had an out of body experience during this... Foley: HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH! Undertaker: After I threw you I was at the bottom watching you fall to the ground... Foley: HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH! That's literally the thumbnail for the video too.
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Post by chronocross on Jun 29, 2023 3:56:23 GMT -5
I'd still like to know what he meant by "they've killed him" during that match... I've had that thought before. Who is "they"? Conrad and Bruce talk about it on their podcast, I think J.R meant Taker when he said that and he was just caught up in the moment.
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Renslayer
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
every time i come around your city...
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Post by Renslayer on Jun 30, 2023 16:06:04 GMT -5
The craziest thing to me is that Foley was on RAW the next night doing stuff. The next night? The crazy bastard interfered in the main event THAT night! Interfered and took a chair shot to the head! That era was brutal and unforgiving
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Post by Hulk With A Mustache on Jun 30, 2023 17:14:57 GMT -5
Something I didn't realize until years later was how there was barely any build for this match. I thought it was like an epic culmination of their on again-off again 2 year feud but it wasn't treated like that at all. They had both just finished their respective feuds with Austin and Kane and it felt like they were paired together again just to give them something to do that month. On TV it wasn't this big thing that felt like it needed a cell match. I think Foley has even commented on how he barely got any reaction when he made his entrance. It wasn't this real hot feud or anything and he thought they had to do something crazy to get people's attention. That is weird. They had had a big feud for the previous two years. Hell, their first match was at the 1996 King Of The Ring. And, Foley was a shot in the arm for Taker. Taker had been getting stale since he was so dominant in all his feuds. Then, Mankind comes along and beats the shit out of him like had never been done before. Suddenly, Taker was interesting again, working a faster style, changing his look. (Having Paul Bearer turn on him also really helped.) Though the feud had gotten cold by then, there was still some juice left in it. They could have really built it up some more.
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XIII
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by XIII on Jun 30, 2023 17:45:06 GMT -5
An iconic match that never should have happened like it did. lol
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Renslayer
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
every time i come around your city...
Posts: 17,303
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Post by Renslayer on Jun 30, 2023 18:49:14 GMT -5
Something I didn't realize until years later was how there was barely any build for this match. I thought it was like an epic culmination of their on again-off again 2 year feud but it wasn't treated like that at all. They had both just finished their respective feuds with Austin and Kane and it felt like they were paired together again just to give them something to do that month. On TV it wasn't this big thing that felt like it needed a cell match. I think Foley has even commented on how he barely got any reaction when he made his entrance. It wasn't this real hot feud or anything and he thought they had to do something crazy to get people's attention. That is weird. They had had a big feud for the previous two years. Hell, their first match was at the 1996 King Of The Ring. And, Foley was a shot in the arm for Taker. Taker had been getting stale since he was so dominant in all his feuds. Then, Mankind comes along and beats the shit out of him like had never been done before. Suddenly, Taker was interesting again, working a faster style, changing his look. (Having Paul Bearer turn on him also really helped.) Though the feud had gotten cold by then, there was still some juice left in it. They could have really built it up some more. Now that I think about it, I don't think they had even interacted since summer of '97 when they had a random tag match against hbk & hhh
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