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Post by dirtyoldman on Aug 3, 2023 6:10:33 GMT -5
There's this amazing thing called the internet, guys. You should check it out.
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Post by RI Richmark on Aug 3, 2023 6:12:16 GMT -5
the only good heroes to have are fictional heroes. Steven Tyler, who has some problems in his life, once said something like, "When you're a kid, your hero is Santa Claus. You grow up and get real life heros, then you learn those people have flaws, so I'm back to Santa Claus" Well Santa has a bunch of people working all year in a shop for no pay. And breaks into people's homes. Also I've heard some wild rumors about what he does with those reindeer.
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Spider2024
Patti Mayonnaise
Dedicated 6,666th post to Irontyger
I believe in Joe Hendry.
Posts: 39,779
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Post by Spider2024 on Aug 3, 2023 7:21:13 GMT -5
Not a Lizzo fan at all and always thought her entire presentation was kind of disingenuous but things like this are why I always separate the art from the artist as best as I can. For every Keanu Reeves there’s like 1000 scumf***s. 🤷🏻♂️ No wonder he keeps saying "Whoa" all the time. He's in as much disbelief as we are.
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Spider2024
Patti Mayonnaise
Dedicated 6,666th post to Irontyger
I believe in Joe Hendry.
Posts: 39,779
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Post by Spider2024 on Aug 3, 2023 7:28:45 GMT -5
Also, her official statement: https://www.instagram.com/p/Cvevdf9OTse Nice staunch denial of accusations, would've been nicer with a ukulele playing, though. Anyway, this is now boiled down to a she-said-they-said ordeal. Whichever side you believe, you be the judge (or more likely, judge be the judge, maybe at some point.)
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Post by WoodStoner1 on Aug 3, 2023 8:30:30 GMT -5
FYI, Faithfull said that the Mars bar thing was a fabrication. Yeah you'd think, "Of course she'd say that!" But it was in an autobiography where she mentions several sexual situations, in detail.
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Post by WoodStoner1 on Aug 3, 2023 8:33:31 GMT -5
But seriously, the bit about having people eat bananas out of strippers' vajays is crazy as f***. Lizzo vs. Hugh Morrus: Bananas vs. Donuts: book it!!!!
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Post by WoodStoner1 on Aug 3, 2023 8:35:20 GMT -5
There's this amazing thing called the internet, guys. You should check it out. I know. Sometimes, well a LOT of times, it makes things worse.
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Post by Citizen Snips on Aug 3, 2023 8:38:01 GMT -5
Also, her official statement: https://www.instagram.com/p/Cvevdf9OTse Nice staunch denial of accusations, would've been nicer with a ukulele playing, though. Anyway, this is now boiled down to a she-said-they-said ordeal. Whichever side you believe, you be the judge (or more likely, judge be the judge, maybe at some point.) The “they said” side apparently has witnesses to most of the alleged actions and several other former employees have already offered support and could be called as character witnesses. Lizzo also only explicitly denies the fat shaming accusations, she sidesteps the sexual stuff by just talking about how she’s open with her sexuality.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,816
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Aug 3, 2023 13:16:08 GMT -5
Eh. Her apology doesn't pass the smell test.
Feels like at least some of this is true.
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Post by HMARK Center on Aug 3, 2023 15:13:33 GMT -5
Also, her official statement: https://www.instagram.com/p/Cvevdf9OTse Nice staunch denial of accusations, would've been nicer with a ukulele playing, though. Anyway, this is now boiled down to a she-said-they-said ordeal. Whichever side you believe, you be the judge (or more likely, judge be the judge, maybe at some point.) The “they said” side apparently has witnesses to most of the alleged actions and several other former employees have already offered support and could be called as character witnesses. Lizzo also only explicitly denies the fat shaming accusations, she sidesteps the sexual stuff by just talking about how she’s open with her sexuality. The stuff about bananas and whatnot, I suppose some of that boils down to what "she invited them to..." means. Was it just a setting where wild stuff was happening and she did literally just "invite" people to participate, or was there a vibe of "if you don't, maybe this isn't the job for you"? That'd change things quite a bit, the latter obviously being much, much worse than the former, so that may be tough to parse for the general population. But yeah, the potential body shaming stuff would really do a number on her reputation. Maybe it's not something insidious and it's just "some of the dancers weren't performing up to standards, changes were made", but if it's genuine body shaming then it just runs counter to basically the entire image she's put out there, and that's what would do a ton of damage. I don't know much of her music, but I've heard a little and did see that flute performance and yes, the woman's got real talent. But basically, I'd go with three thoughts here: -It's possible she's just super demanding and hard to work for, but that doesn't guarantee she did the really, really bad stuff she's accused of. -In the event she DID do the more awful things she's accused of, it's another reminder to never make heroes out of celebrities...or frankly out of almost any people, period. Look up to what people have done, how they carry themselves, or treat others, but don't make the individual into a heroic figure, because all of these people are just that: people. Not good, not evil, but people, and people are messy, because life is messy. That doesn't mean to always assume the worst about people, but it does mean to acknowledge that everyone, even your favorite (insert notable figure from whatever field here), is complex and complicated. -The usual internet CHUDs who are going to use this as fuel against basically all black women, big people, or sexually open people are boring and nobody should give a damn about them, but god knows the ALGORITHMS will promote them to kingdom come in the next week or so. And anyone saying "I KNEW it!"...no, you didn't, you're just glad your preexisting biases might've been confirmed. Again: boring.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Aug 3, 2023 15:15:34 GMT -5
Me: this can't be THAT bad
*Reads the banana thing*
*Begins applying the clown makeup and puts on the rainbow wig*
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Post by yokohamacpfc on Aug 3, 2023 16:19:53 GMT -5
The diva-type singers of the 80s and 90s were notorious for treating their dancers like a Dubai expat treats his servants so I hope this isn't true and like wrestling music has sorted out unacceptable behind the scenes behavior/culture.
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Ultimo Gallos
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Dreams SUCK!Nightmares live FOREVER!
Posts: 15,320
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Post by Ultimo Gallos on Aug 3, 2023 17:02:09 GMT -5
But seriously, the bit about having people eat bananas out of strippers' vajays is crazy as f***. Ever hear the story of Led Zeppelin and the mudshark? Or Marianne Faithful and Mick Jagger? or Mötley Crüe and two women and a phone call home? Maybe because of how many rock biographies I've read, this doesn't even rank in the top 100. Brad Arnold and the 3 strippers at Thunder's tavern. Many many stories.
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Post by WoodStoner1 on Aug 3, 2023 17:09:58 GMT -5
Steven Tyler, who has some problems in his life, once said something like, "When you're a kid, your hero is Santa Claus. You grow up and get real life heros, then you learn those people have flaws, so I'm back to Santa Claus" Well Santa has a bunch of people working all year in a shop for no pay. And breaks into people's homes. Also I've heard some wild rumors about what he does with those reindeer. I hear he acts up on garbage day.
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Post by WoodStoner1 on Aug 3, 2023 17:12:51 GMT -5
-The usual internet CHUDs who are going to use this as fuel against basically all black women, big people, or sexually open people are boring and nobody should give a damn about them, but god knows the ALGORITHMS will promote them to kingdom come in the next week or so. And anyone saying "I KNEW it!"...no, you didn't, you're just glad your preexisting biases might've been confirmed. Again: boring. It's probably the same thing these Mad and Grouchy Americans got out of all of Ezra Miller's antics, yes.
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Post by Ronny Rayguns Is All Elite on Aug 3, 2023 20:27:43 GMT -5
I can take or leave Lizzo, but I think she's going to be unfairly getting the extra large amount of backlash because of the general perception that she (more accurately her fan base) are frequently scolding other people for toxic behavior
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Eunös ✈
Dalek
Duck Feet Expert
Tolerated, just not practically liked.
Posts: 59,301
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Post by Eunös ✈ on Aug 4, 2023 3:38:38 GMT -5
I genuinely have no idea who this person is.
Think I'll keep it that way.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Aug 4, 2023 5:20:37 GMT -5
I genuinely have no idea who this person is. Think I'll keep it that way. My familiarity with Lizzo basically begins and ends with the fact that she was the musical guest when Eddie Murphy hosted SNL a few years back
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Ultimo Gallos
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Dreams SUCK!Nightmares live FOREVER!
Posts: 15,320
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Post by Ultimo Gallos on Aug 4, 2023 7:14:53 GMT -5
I genuinely have no idea who this person is. Think I'll keep it that way. My familiarity with Lizzo basically begins and ends with the fact that she was the musical guest when Eddie Murphy hosted SNL a few years back Ok been trying to figure out where I knew her from. That is it. Was the time I watched SNL live since Ashlee Simpson had her incident on SNL.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Aug 4, 2023 8:51:47 GMT -5
the only good heroes to have are fictional heroes. Steven Tyler, who has some problems in his life, once said something like, "When you're a kid, your hero is Santa Claus. You grow up and get real life heros, then you learn those people have flaws, so I'm back to Santa Claus" He definitely is someone who'd know how fallible celebrities are, given he adopted a 16 year old child so he could bang her on the road: www.mamamia.com.au/steven-tyler-julia-holcomb/The thing about this is that it's just not one accusation, it's multiple. If one person accuses someone of something I personally keep that in mind as it can go either way some time. The more people that comment on it well, if there's smoke there's fire most cases. Just wild that it was her doing it especially after what you're supposed to represent. Celebrities are wild yall. Yeah, this is basically where I tend to land on this stuff. People who get one accusation - I personally still believe them in the vast majority of cases because the burden of proof on these things is ludicrously high even within the legal system when they have all the information. But when someone has one accusation that then turns into an onrush like Lizzo's have, it's like. Do you know how many people would have to be in on that kind of a conspiracy for it to hold up? It's really sounding like at least some of the claims are true. The hypocrisy of being body positive and really overweight while also fat-shaming your backup dancers is wild. This is the part of it that depresses me the absolute most. I've been disappointed by a lot of creatives I previously admired in the last few years, but some of them are more disappointing than others. Louis CK, for example, I was bummed because I did really like his comedy, but it also didn't really surprise me that much. Lizzo is one where it feels like another Joey Ryan situation - I hated Joey's work, but felt like I had to defend it all the time against people calling it sick or perverted or unacceptable etc. etc. and then when it turned out he did the shit he did, that made it seem like his creative works and his real life disgusting behaviour were related. Lizzo is similar. She was such a positive role model for black people, fat people, a queer ally (or actually queer, I forget), sex positive, and now she's done all this shit, and that means the good things she's done get tainted by her bullshit. However, with that said, and I'm sorry to pick on chrom specifically because this was just the most recent of multiple examples in this thread. This kind of comment here: A person who's as big and wide as they are has no room to be criticizing and shaming others. This is f***ed up, and this is part of why Lizzo turning out to be like this is so disappointing. Because millions of people still consider fatness to be a moral failing, something worthy of mockery, including on this forum, and so this coming out not only makes me think less of Lizzo, but of shitloads of other people. And one other reply in this thread is nothing to do with fatness but I reported it, because holy shit, guys. This thread is grim in a lot of places. We are usually better than this as a community.
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