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Post by Treklubj on Aug 8, 2023 14:51:21 GMT -5
Agree to disagree. I’m not sure why Jey “needed to win” unless the premise we’re operating under is that you’re either the top of the territory or you’re being wasted. He can function well as an upper midcard to main event level face as a singles star now, and maybe even more depending on the follow up if that’s what they want him to be. We’re talking about someone that had no singles career to speak of before this angle. Jey needed the win to show that the dude can get the job done. As stated by Scott Hall, if you are a face and don't win, you are f***ed. Now the dude has three failed top level title shots, it's going to be hard to get people to buy that he can get the job done, and therefore, it's going to be harder to build up the match because when it comes to the crunch, they know that the good guy isn't going to bring home the bacon. If WWE want Jey to be a main event level face, they cannot have him get the rep as a bottle job. Him having three failed title shots does not bode well. Let me start by saying Scott Hall was great and knew more about pro wrestling than either of us. That said: Dusty Rhodes took L after L to Harley Race and Ric Flair both before eventually dethroning both for World titles. Sting had plenty of failed opportunities before eventually breaking through and winning his first world title. John Cena dropped clean matches to WWE champion Brock (twice), Rikishi, Kurt Angle and Undertaker in a shorter span of time than Jey Uso's losses to Roman before beating JBL for the title. More recently, Kofi Kingston was a tag guy who took losses of all kind before being built up, winning Heavyweight title and having a great reign (end notwithstanding). Do you really believe Jey Uso is not a believable main eventer because of the losses to Roman? |
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
Nachos and Fraggle Rock are TIMELESS.
Posts: 8,479
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Post by Nosnorb on Aug 8, 2023 15:51:19 GMT -5
Jey needed the win to show that the dude can get the job done. As stated by Scott Hall, if you are a face and don't win, you are f***ed. Now the dude has three failed top level title shots, it's going to be hard to get people to buy that he can get the job done, and therefore, it's going to be harder to build up the match because when it comes to the crunch, they know that the good guy isn't going to bring home the bacon. If WWE want Jey to be a main event level face, they cannot have him get the rep as a bottle job. Him having three failed title shots does not bode well. Let me start by saying Scott Hall was great and knows more about pro wrestling than either of us. That said: Dusty Rhodes took L after L to Harley Race and Ric Flair both before eventually dethroning both for World titles. Sting had plenty of failed opportunities before eventually breaking through and winning his first world title. John Cena dropped clean matches to WWE champion Brock (twice), Rikishi, Kurt Angle and Undertaker in a shorter span of time than Jey Uso's losses to Roman before beating JBL for the title. More recently, Kofi Kingston was a tag guy who took losses of all kind before being built up, winning Heavyweight title and having a great reign (end notwithstanding). Do you really believe Jey Uso is not a believable main eventer because of the losses to Roman? At the moment, it doesn't look good for him with him striking out 3 times already, and WWE would be wise not to have him choke any more times. Look at how Braun Strowman had his heat killed by not winning when it mattered the most. Dean Ambrose choked so many times in his first two years as a singles dude and that hurt his heat and drawing power until Money in the Bank 2016. Look at Roman Reigns when he was a face - dude bottled it so many times when the chips were down, one of the reasons he struggled as the top face. Look at Bryan Danielson in AEW - dude lost so many big matches that what should have been a banger feud against MJF was a wet fart as everyone knew he was going to lose. And just look at the Choke Artist Known as Nakamura. WWE can make Jey Uso a main eventer, but it's going to be a very tough ask if he gets a rep as a bottle job, and looking at how Roman has a grip on the title like a limpet, I have a hard time buying that WWE can avoid that pitfall. |
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Post by Hypnosis on Aug 8, 2023 19:01:57 GMT -5
Let me start by saying Scott Hall was great and knows more about pro wrestling than either of us. That said: Dusty Rhodes took L after L to Harley Race and Ric Flair both before eventually dethroning both for World titles. Sting had plenty of failed opportunities before eventually breaking through and winning his first world title. John Cena dropped clean matches to WWE champion Brock (twice), Rikishi, Kurt Angle and Undertaker in a shorter span of time than Jey Uso's losses to Roman before beating JBL for the title. More recently, Kofi Kingston was a tag guy who took losses of all kind before being built up, winning Heavyweight title and having a great reign (end notwithstanding). Do you really believe Jey Uso is not a believable main eventer because of the losses to Roman? At the moment, it doesn't look good for him with him striking out 3 times already, and WWE would be wise not to have him choke any more times. Look at how Braun Strowman had his heat killed by not winning when it mattered the most. Dean Ambrose choked so many times in his first two years as a singles dude and that hurt his heat and drawing power until Money in the Bank 2016. Look at Roman Reigns when he was a face - dude bottled it so many times when the chips were down, one of the reasons he struggled as the top face. Look at Bryan Danielson in AEW - dude lost so many big matches that what should have been a banger feud against MJF was a wet fart as everyone knew he was going to lose. And just look at the Choke Artist Known as Nakamura. WWE can make Jey Uso a main eventer, but it's going to be a very tough ask if he gets a rep as a bottle job, and looking at how Roman has a grip on the title like a limpet, I have a hard time buying that WWE can avoid that pitfall. There's also Ruby Soho. Even after turning heel, her luck with big tournament finals or title matches still hasn't picked up. |
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Sparkybob
King Koopa
I have a status?
Posts: 11,007 
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Post by Sparkybob on Aug 9, 2023 0:06:09 GMT -5
Yea whether you like something or not is perfectly fine but I fail to see an argument that the Uso/Solo/Sami are worse off with their association. It's kind of similar to me how some might minimize the business and the overness of the bloodlines stuff by almost implying that by giving other storylines more time they can draw at a similar rate. Which I find quite unbelievable tbh. There has always been a strong expression of this type of an opinion on the internet when it comes to wrestling. My favorite ones were probably the idea that anybody could have gotten over the way Shane McMahon and Jeff Hardy did if given the same high spots. This of course assumed that these spots weren't those performer's ideas and also that there were a bunch of people lining up to jump off balconies, get thrown off Titan Trons and suplexed through glass. Choosing Sheamus, as was done in another thread, as an avatar for this and making him the hero here for speaking out is a little odd, though. For one, I'm old enough to remember when so many people thought he was boring as hell and only had his spot because he worked out with Triple H. For real though, it's kinda ridiculous to think he could do the same business as the Bloodline if only given the time. Left to his own devices, Roman came back with the Head of the Table, elevevated a bunch of other people and gets entire arena to throw their fingers in the air. Sheamus, when given creative freedom, came out looking like a road guy for a 70s punk band and got a "You look stupid" chant. His current character is tough guy who has good matches. Sheamus could get a segment every week where he does his work out show (the most entertaining thing he's done, in my opinion) and he's not getting over or affecting business like the Bloodline. Someone said in one of these threads that people's individual hate of the story is clouding judgment. That seems accurate. I agree. As I mentioned before, fans don't have to care about ratings or overness to determine whether they like something or not.  But some of the rating that the bloodline segment draw should be recognized as amazing accomplishments given the current TV landscape. As you alluded to, I highly doubt most wrestlers can pitch and lead an angle to draw this type of equivalent rating on their brand. So it is sort of like the WWE giving the fans what they want (Bloodline segments) it is just unfortunate some fans don't want that. But I think I can make the argument that the WWE is just responding to the feedback from a lot of fans that they are still invested in the angle. |
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