Cody vs Roman

[Friday Night SmackOwn]

Aug 17, 2023 20:14:02 GMT -5 fw91 said:

Yeah, with the mania 39 L, I think the story is “Perhaps Cody’s story isn’t supposed to have a happy ending” but all the while, everything Cody predicted about the bloodline disentegrating has come to fruition. Just need to figure out Solo leaves.

The Mania 39 loss is the “act two downturn” for Cody before the triumphant comeback in act three (Mania XL) as the villains’ plans fall apart.

[deezy]

Aug 17, 2023 22:50:39 GMT -5 fw91 said:

Aug 17, 2023 22:18:45 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

It's August

I'm not about to predict Cody winning at the next Mania when the reports are Roman's ending his reign whenever he feels like it lmfao, it's already bent like a pretzel to please this dude.

I think you're getting way too hung up on whatever ambiguous anecdote you read. Roman's never seemingly been the type to never do business. HHH has a hard on for long heel title reigns. Between that, tv ratings and merch sales, that's why Roman is still champ. And with Heyman's WWE career has been a story of several backstage ups and downs. No way he has any real say on creative.

Yeah I'm not believing that Roman gets to decide when he drops the title. Ratings, Sales are still up and the live crowds still loving the storyline are the main reasons he still has the title. I don't see him not doing business or hard to do business with since we've never heard that before.

[fw91]

Aug 17, 2023 23:15:58 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

Aug 17, 2023 22:50:39 GMT -5 fw91 said:

I think you're getting way too hung up on whatever ambiguous anecdote you read. Roman's never seemingly been the type to never do business. HHH has a hard on for long heel title reigns. Between that, tv ratings and merch sales, that's why Roman is still champ. And with Heyman's WWE career has been a story of several backstage ups and downs. No way he has any real say on creative.

Yeah well it doesn't really matter whether he's saying it or WWE is, the dude's never dropping this belt at this rate even when it's so totally gonna be this time for sure, I've grown numb to the whole thing and to this Bloodline storyline going in a giant endless circle

Shit's become way too tedious, especially since he's gonna be taking a like 2-3 month vacation very soon, love that we need a third world title because of this by the way, super fun!

Believe it or not, the live crowds are still invested in the bloodline drama. As much as I don't like the consolation title, I can't say WWE is acting without reason with the bloodline

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Aug 17, 2023 23:32:43 GMT -5 Friday Night SmackOwn said:

Aug 17, 2023 20:14:02 GMT -5 fw91 said:

Yeah, with the mania 39 L, I think the story is “Perhaps Cody’s story isn’t supposed to have a happy ending” but all the while, everything Cody predicted about the bloodline disentegrating has come to fruition. Just need to figure out Solo leaves.

The Mania 39 loss is the “act two downturn” for Cody before the triumphant comeback in act three (Mania XL) as the villains’ plans fall apart.

Doesn't make the play entertaining for everyone to witness, also it's about 10 hours long and there isn't a single intermission lmfao

[Treklubj]

Aug 17, 2023 23:15:58 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

Aug 17, 2023 22:50:39 GMT -5 fw91 said:

I think you're getting way too hung up on whatever ambiguous anecdote you read. Roman's never seemingly been the type to never do business. HHH has a hard on for long heel title reigns. Between that, tv ratings and merch sales, that's why Roman is still champ. And with Heyman's WWE career has been a story of several backstage ups and downs. No way he has any real say on creative.

Yeah well it doesn't really matter whether he's saying it or WWE is, the dude's never dropping this belt at this rate even when it's so totally gonna be this time for sure, I've grown numb to the whole thing and to this Bloodline storyline going in a giant endless circle

Shit's become way too tedious, especially since he's gonna be taking a like 2-3 month vacation very soon, love that we need a third world title because of this by the way, super fun!

I've seen you drop the line about Roman losing the belt when he feels like it a few times. Do you have a link for that? I'm sure you read it somewhere I'd just like to see the context and the source.

As far as the second part of your post, removing personal opinion, does it seem like live crowds find Roman and the Bloodline "tedious," or they still having "super fun" at the shows?

It actually is pretty amazing to me that, after three years, the crowds seem engaged with everything they do. An incredible example of this was the MSG crowd going ballistic as Solo stood center-ring looking at Roman's Ula Fala lying on the mat. Simply teasing Solo having an interest in being Tribal Chief blew up the crowd.

Serious question: Based on some of your posts, the Bloodline stuff legit seems to stress you. If it affects you like that, have you ever thought about taking a break from Smackdown?

[Mozenrath]

Anecdotal, but was talking to the gal last night, and I was kind of surprised she knew who Roman Reigns was. Apparently she had read or watched some kind of essay on the Bloodline storyline and was genuinely intrigued by it.

Not like it's gotten her to begin watching, but I guess it's a show of that, yes, WWE has had something special here. It's absolutely been mired with rehashes, stalls, and chain-yanks, but I do think that whenever it finally ends, unless they completely f*** up the landing, it will be looked back on with a good deal of fondness when it's no longer a blackhole of momentum for a lot of people.

[Fade]

Kid at my work said “Sami Zayn” after I was looking for a “Sammy”. I asked how he knew who that was, asked him who his favorite was and he instantly said Roman. I get adult fans frustrations with the dudes booking but I think younger fans and history will treat Roman very well. Like Cena times 10.

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Aug 19, 2023 8:14:23 GMT -5 Treklubj said:

Aug 17, 2023 23:15:58 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

Yeah well it doesn't really matter whether he's saying it or WWE is, the dude's never dropping this belt at this rate even when it's so totally gonna be this time for sure, I've grown numb to the whole thing and to this Bloodline storyline going in a giant endless circle

Shit's become way too tedious, especially since he's gonna be taking a like 2-3 month vacation very soon, love that we need a third world title because of this by the way, super fun!

I've seen you drop the line about Roman losing the belt when he feels like it a few times. Do you have a link for that? I'm sure you read it somewhere I'd just like to see the context and the source.

As far as the second part of your post, removing personal opinion, does it seem like live crowds find Roman and the Bloodline "tedious," or they still having "super fun" at the shows?

It actually is pretty amazing to me that, after three years, the crowds seem engaged with everything they do. An incredible example of this was the MSG crowd going ballistic as Solo stood center-ring looking at Roman's Ula Fala lying on the mat. Simply teasing Solo having an interest in being Tribal Chief blew up the crowd.

Serious question: Based on some of your posts, the Bloodline stuff legit seems to stress you. If it affects you like that, have you ever thought about taking a break from Smackdown?

Glad the crowd enjoys it, I said I didn't enjoy it, there's a difference there and I don't like the booking and since Cody lost at Mania I have felt like it's jumped a major shark, and I'm not alone in that, many people in multiple threads hate this storyline, that's our right and opinion, I don't care what the crowd thinks in that regard. I get it, doesn't mean I have to enjoy how they've presented it.

As for the first part, it was posted in a FAN thread here, I couldn't tell you which one but it was one of the Roman ones, maybe the one where Jimmy turned, or the title tracker one.

It isn't "legitimately stressing" me to critique a storyline, especially one as big as this one. It hasn't always been bad, I've enjoyed plenty of moments in it, but I am at the point where I am exhausted with it, and they are clearly trying to stretch this shit out for an entire extra year, and it's just at the point where I think it's dumb to have done that and I find it tedious as hell as a viewer, again, not alone, but that's MY opinion, glad the crowds are enjoying it.

[Loser troll. Please ban me]

It's not really Rocky when it's a foregone conclusion. Reading him as the eventual Roman ender will if anything be a source of a hearty chuckle

[The Summer of Muskrat XVII]

Until recently, I thought Cody winning at next Mania was a lock but good god, I want it to be Jay now

[King Devitt and the Woke Mob]

I just want to get it over with.

[Some Guy]

Aug 19, 2023 16:36:03 GMT -5 The Summer of Muskrat XVII said:

Until recently, I thought Cody winning at next Mania was a lock but good god, I want it to be Jay now

After that 36 minute complete snoozefest, I never want to see Roman and Jey wrestle ever again. Doing THAT as the Mania main event, absolutely not.

[Treklubj]

Aug 19, 2023 14:33:51 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

Aug 19, 2023 8:14:23 GMT -5 Treklubj said:

I've seen you drop the line about Roman losing the belt when he feels like it a few times. Do you have a link for that? I'm sure you read it somewhere I'd just like to see the context and the source.

As far as the second part of your post, removing personal opinion, does it seem like live crowds find Roman and the Bloodline "tedious," or they still having "super fun" at the shows?

It actually is pretty amazing to me that, after three years, the crowds seem engaged with everything they do. An incredible example of this was the MSG crowd going ballistic as Solo stood center-ring looking at Roman's Ula Fala lying on the mat. Simply teasing Solo having an interest in being Tribal Chief blew up the crowd.

Serious question: Based on some of your posts, the Bloodline stuff legit seems to stress you. If it affects you like that, have you ever thought about taking a break from Smackdown?

Glad the crowd enjoys it, I said I didn't enjoy it, there's a difference there and I don't like the booking and since Cody lost at Mania I have felt like it's jumped a major shark, and I'm not alone in that, many people in multiple threads hate this storyline, that's our right and opinion, I don't care what the crowd thinks in that regard. I get it, doesn't mean I have to enjoy how they've presented it.

As for the first part, it was posted in a FAN thread here, I couldn't tell you which one but it was one of the Roman ones, maybe the one where Jimmy turned, or the title tracker one.

It isn't "legitimately stressing" me to critique a storyline, especially one as big as this one. It hasn't always been bad, I've enjoyed plenty of moments in it, but I am at the point where I am exhausted with it, and they are clearly trying to stretch this shit out for an entire extra year, and it's just at the point where I think it's dumb to have done that and I find it tedious as hell as a viewer, again, not alone, but that's MY opinion, glad the crowds are enjoying it.

Thanks for your reply. To make it easy and clear:

Paragraph 1: Completely agree. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Any form of entertainment is subjective so there's no right or wrong answer about what is good or bad. The only part about your criticism of the Bloodline thing is the idea you often you express that a mistake was made by keeping the belt on Roman at Wrestlemania. That's a little more objective, as it states WWE made the wrong decision in not having Cody win the belt. They're in the business of trying to give people a product they want to consume so they can increase profits. Business has improved since the decision to keep the belt on Roman. Objectively, this was not a mistake.

Paragraph 2: I'm not going to go looking for the original quote about Roman dropping the belt whenever feels like it. Based on your reply, it sounds like you're just repeating what some random person said because it adds to the negativity you feel about the angle and not because it actually came from a reliable source who had any internal knowledge of the situation.

Paragraph 3: Again, critiquing the angle is fine. Bash away. It's more some of the wording you use and as worked up as you seem to get over it. It's not always easy to get tone from someone else is writing, though, so I could be completely wrong.

[Mid-Carder]

I would agree that keeping the title on Roman is a good business decision if Cody wasn't also proving to be good business in all areas of WWE.

[Treklubj]

Aug 20, 2023 10:51:24 GMT -5 Mid-Carder said:

I would agree that keeping the title on Roman is a good business decision if Cody wasn't also proving to be good business in all areas of WWE.

This is why it was not a mistake to keep the belt on Roman.

The Bloodline is at a level WWE hasn't seen in years. Cody's popularity and draw-level has only grown since the Wrestlemania loss. The Wrestlemania 40 main event between the two will probably be the biggest, most-anticipated match in years.

If you make the title change at 39, there is a good chance things are not as hot as they are. Taking the belt out of the Bloodline story takes away a major aspect of it. If Roman has already been dethroned then most of his clout is gone, which dramatically impacts that story.

If Cody wins, where does he go? Obviously the Brock feud was huge for him. If he's champ, a lot of the same people complaining now would be complaining then about Brock being in the title picture. Finally, to get the 2-out-of-3 series, Cody has to drop the belt to Lesnar. This would just further piss off the same people who are saying it was a mistake for Cody not to win at 39.

So at that point, you can

A) Run it back at 40 with two dudes who have both lost the title during the past 12 months

OR

B) Run it back at 40 with a guy who has held the belt for over 3 years and established himself as maybe the biggest wrestler since Austin and Rock and a guy who is red-hot having recovered from the loss, cleanly won a feud with Brock Lesnar and claimed victory in his second consecutive Royal Rumble.

Option B clearly sounds like the better main event for WWE's 40th Wrestlemania.

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Aug 20, 2023 8:02:23 GMT -5 Treklubj said:

Aug 19, 2023 14:33:51 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

Glad the crowd enjoys it, I said I didn't enjoy it, there's a difference there and I don't like the booking and since Cody lost at Mania I have felt like it's jumped a major shark, and I'm not alone in that, many people in multiple threads hate this storyline, that's our right and opinion, I don't care what the crowd thinks in that regard. I get it, doesn't mean I have to enjoy how they've presented it.

As for the first part, it was posted in a FAN thread here, I couldn't tell you which one but it was one of the Roman ones, maybe the one where Jimmy turned, or the title tracker one.

It isn't "legitimately stressing" me to critique a storyline, especially one as big as this one. It hasn't always been bad, I've enjoyed plenty of moments in it, but I am at the point where I am exhausted with it, and they are clearly trying to stretch this shit out for an entire extra year, and it's just at the point where I think it's dumb to have done that and I find it tedious as hell as a viewer, again, not alone, but that's MY opinion, glad the crowds are enjoying it.

Paragraph 2: I'm not going to go looking for the original quote about Roman dropping the belt whenever feels like it. Based on your reply, it sounds like you're just repeating what some random person said because it adds to the negativity you feel about the angle and not because it actually came from a reliable source who had any internal knowledge of the situation.

No, I got it from an actual news source that was posted here, and a bunch of people, myself included, commented that if it was true, it was bullshit. I don't specifically remember which one posted it because it was a few weeks ago.

Do not tell me how I'm thinking or projecting "Because I hate Roman", you want this to be a civil conversation? That's how you tank it immediately. Literally telling me "I'm not gonna go look but I'm just gonna assume it was from a random person and you just said it because you want to be negative and fuel your negativity". Do you have any f***ing idea how insulting this comes off?

And I don't give a shit about how "Objectively it was a good business because business" either, and I don't know how many times I have to say that. I hated Mania, I still think the ending was complete bullshit, and the title reign was shit before then and it's even more tedious now.

At the risk of getting worked up further because of how unbelievably insulting I found this, I'll end it here. I get you probably didn't mean for it to come off that way, but it did.

[Treklubj]

Aug 20, 2023 17:55:27 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

Aug 20, 2023 8:02:23 GMT -5 Treklubj said:

Paragraph 2: I'm not going to go looking for the original quote about Roman dropping the belt whenever feels like it. Based on your reply, it sounds like you're just repeating what some random person said because it adds to the negativity you feel about the angle and not because it actually came from a reliable source who had any internal knowledge of the situation.

No, I got it from an actual news source that was posted here, and a bunch of people, myself included, commented that if it was true, it was bullshit. I don't specifically remember which one posted it because it was a few weeks ago.

Do not tell me how I'm thinking or projecting "Because I hate Roman", you want this to be a civil conversation? That's how you tank it immediately. Literally telling me "I'm not gonna go look but I'm just gonna assume it was from a random person and you just said it because you want to be negative and fuel your negativity". Do you have any f***ing idea how insulting this comes off?

And I don't give a shit about how "Objectively it was a good business because business" either, and I don't know how many times I have to say that. I hated Mania, I still think the ending was complete bullshit, and the title reign was shit before then and it's even more tedious now.

At the risk of getting worked up further because of how unbelievably insulting I found this, I'll end it here. I get you probably didn't mean for it to come off that way, but it did.

At no point was I insulting you. You even say you think I didn't mean what I wrote to be insulting. Of course, that didn't stop you from spending the entire four-paragraph post going off, cursing and getting angry because you felt insulted. Seriously, you should stop being so thin-skinned about something as meaningless as a disagreement about pro wrestling. You can take that statement however you choose to take it.

To clarify some of your other issues with my post:


Paragraphs 1 and 2: I said I wasn't going to go looking for it because you said it was either in one of the Roman threads (there's a lot of those) the Jimmy turning thread (a long one) or the title tracker one (another one). Since you couldn't point to where you saw the report and you didn't name drop the source (ex. SRS, Meltzer), it led me to believe somebody else posted it and it might not be one of the "name" reporters, if it was even a sourced report at all. Since you posted the report, it would have made sense for you to just look at your post history and drop the link when I first asked about it. That was before the conversation ever got "tanked" and you got "insulted." The random person comment came from you not doing that.

For the record, I never said you were thinking or projecting due to Roman-hate. If you're going to use quotation marks you're supposed to actually quote the person. In both cases of your post, you inserted stuff I didn't say.

Paragraph 3: As I said before, liking something/disliking something is subjective. We can go back and forth about that all day and that's cool. It's fun to do that. Arguing a company made a mistake by making a decision that has only improved business is not a subjective conversation. You have called it a mistake and referred to it as "Hunter's L" but keeping the belt on Roman at WM 39 was objectively a good decision. It has been good for business and the star power of both Roman and Cody (as well as the other members of the Bloodline) has only grown since then. That is not subjective. That is fact.

Paragraph 4: You did get too worked up, especially considering you were correct that I wasn't trying to insult you.

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Aug 20, 2023 18:57:48 GMT -5 Treklubj said:

Aug 20, 2023 17:55:27 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

No, I got it from an actual news source that was posted here, and a bunch of people, myself included, commented that if it was true, it was bullshit. I don't specifically remember which one posted it because it was a few weeks ago.

Do not tell me how I'm thinking or projecting "Because I hate Roman", you want this to be a civil conversation? That's how you tank it immediately. Literally telling me "I'm not gonna go look but I'm just gonna assume it was from a random person and you just said it because you want to be negative and fuel your negativity". Do you have any f***ing idea how insulting this comes off?

And I don't give a shit about how "Objectively it was a good business because business" either, and I don't know how many times I have to say that. I hated Mania, I still think the ending was complete bullshit, and the title reign was shit before then and it's even more tedious now.

At the risk of getting worked up further because of how unbelievably insulting I found this, I'll end it here. I get you probably didn't mean for it to come off that way, but it did.

At no point was I insulting you. You even say you think I didn't mean what I wrote to be insulting. Of course, that didn't stop you from spending the entire four-paragraph post going off, cursing and getting angry because you felt insulted. Seriously, you should stop being so thin-skinned about something as meaningless as a disagreement about pro wrestling. You can take that statement however you choose to take it.

To clarify some of your other issues with my post:


Paragraphs 1 and 2: I said I wasn't going to go looking for it because you said it was either in one of the Roman threads (there's a lot of those) the Jimmy turning thread (a long one) or the title tracker one (another one). Since you couldn't point to where you saw the report and you didn't name drop the source (ex. SRS, Meltzer), it led me to believe somebody else posted it and it might not be one of the "name" reporters, if it was even a sourced report at all. Since you posted the report, it would have made sense for you to just look at your post history and drop the link when I first asked about it. That was before the conversation ever got "tanked" and you got "insulted." The random person comment came from you not doing that.

For the record, I never said you were thinking or projecting due to Roman-hate. If you're going to use quotation marks you're supposed to actually quote the person. In both cases of your post, you inserted stuff I didn't say.

Paragraph 3: As I said before, liking something/disliking something is subjective. We can go back and forth about that all day and that's cool. It's fun to do that. Arguing a company made a mistake by making a decision that has only improved business is not a subjective conversation. You have called it a mistake and referred to it as "Hunter's L" but keeping the belt on Roman at WM 39 was objectively a good decision. It has been good for business and the star power of both Roman and Cody (as well as the other members of the Bloodline) has only grown since then. That is not subjective. That is fact.

Paragraph 4: You did get too worked up, especially considering you were correct that I wasn't trying to insult you.

I wasn't worked up initially, I was worked up because your wording came off extremely insulting to me, even if you didn't intend it.

Hating a storyline doesn't mean I'm sitting in my chair frothing over it, it's annoying to experience when you don't like what they're doing, it happens, but I'm not losing sleep over it.

And I don't agree with the decision and I feel like their business would have been just fine if Roman lost the belt too and Cody had won it, WWE's idiot proof, it has been for ages now, so arguing business semantics over booking decisions to me doesn't really hold as much weight, they don't really lose money at this point thanks to shit like the Saudi Deals.

[wildojinx]

Remember the ending of the first Rocky movie where Apollo's cousin nailed him in the neck?

[SneakMan]

Aug 20, 2023 20:34:52 GMT -5 wildojinx said:

Remember the ending of the first Rocky movie where Apollo's cousin nailed him in the neck?

And then Rocky began Part 2 putting over how Apollo was the better man, before getting attacked by Spider Rico for no stated reason.

WWE’s been talking out of both sides of their mouth with this entire Roman reign (ha, ha). His matches, 9 times out of 10, end with interference and bullshit, and the announcers will even acknowledge what a travesty of justice it is! Yet at the same time they’ll talk about how this victory solidified Roman as the GOAT, etc.

Evolution-era HHH had JR incensed each week about how Scott Steiner or Kevin Nash or whoever should rightfully be the champion; the only one blowing his load about how Hunter was the greatest to ever lace up of a pair of boots was King, the heel commentator! You can’t have it both ways. Or maybe you can because people just don’t give a shit as long as they get to see more monologues.