Talent Name
Ozymandius
Got fined anyway. Possibly a Moose
James Franco is the white Donald Glover
Posts: 63,745
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Post by Talent Name on Sept 7, 2023 20:56:22 GMT -5
Marvels Spider-Man
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Post by SsnakeBite, the No1 Frenchman on Sept 8, 2023 5:41:43 GMT -5
I'd put GTA IV on this list I always feel weird about the stories of the GTA games because while they're usually good, I also can't buy into their attempts at presenting their lead characters as complex anti-heroes who may do terrible things but ultimately are at least a lesser evil, when they also have scenes of them murdering people in cold blood just because they're paid to do so, showing no remorse or moral conflict and often downright revelling in the pain and suffering they cause. And that includes Niko. That said, I did enjoy the story overall but you know what? Of all people, I think my favourite character is Roman. yes yes, we all laugh at the memes about him being annoying because he always wants to go bowling or whatever but if we forget about questionable gameplay design for a second and focus on him as a character, he genuinely is the most interesting and compelx one in the game, and possibly the entire franchise. IMO he does the best job of illustrating the game's main theme of the American Dream and how it came to be broken, and shows some unexpected nuance fr a GTA game in the sense that sure, his life isn't great and the whole "American Dream" thing may feel like it's long gone, if it ever truly existed; but at the same time, he is able to build a business on his own and do things he can be proud of. I remember one scene that particularly cemented it and made me love Roman even more. I don't remember the exact exchange, but Niko starts calling him out on how shitty Roman's life is and how he's delusional if he thinks he's living the dream, and Roman basically replies "You think I don't know that? But guess what, it's still a Hell of a lot better than what would be waiting for us back home and everything I own, I've earned it by making an honest living. Meanwhile, you come here and you start killing people while living off MY place and MY money that I worked my ass off to gain, and you have the audacity to give me shit for the way I live my life?!" That was a shockingly good character moment for one of these games.
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ToyfareMark
Vegeta
A WINNER IS YOU!
In Hutch I trust!
Posts: 9,662
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Post by ToyfareMark on Sept 8, 2023 7:16:02 GMT -5
Knights of the Old Republic 2. It's sad the game was pretty much rushed, and so much stuff cut out of it. But to me the story is great because Kreia's motivation was about destroying the Force. I just find that to be really engaging.
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MolotovMocktail
Grimlock
Home of the 5-time, 5-time, 5-time, 5-time 5-time Super Bowl Champion 49ers-and Wrestlemania 31
Posts: 14,055
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Post by MolotovMocktail on Sept 8, 2023 17:57:54 GMT -5
I'd put GTA IV on this list I always feel weird about the stories of the GTA games because while they're usually good, I also can't buy into their attempts at presenting their lead characters as complex anti-heroes who may do terrible things but ultimately are at least a lesser evil, when they also have scenes of them murdering people in cold blood just because they're paid to do so, showing no remorse or moral conflict and often downright revelling in the pain and suffering they cause. And that includes Niko. That said, I did enjoy the story overall but you know what? Of all people, I think my favourite character is Roman. yes yes, we all laugh at the memes about him being annoying because he always wants to go bowling or whatever but if we forget about questionable gameplay design for a second and focus on him as a character, he genuinely is the most interesting and compelx one in the game, and possibly the entire franchise. IMO he does the best job of illustrating the game's main theme of the American Dream and how it came to be broken, and shows some unexpected nuance fr a GTA game in the sense that sure, his life isn't great and the whole "American Dream" thing may feel like it's long gone, if it ever truly existed; but at the same time, he is able to build a business on his own and do things he can be proud of. I remember one scene that particularly cemented it and made me love Roman even more. I don't remember the exact exchange, but Niko starts calling him out on how shitty Roman's life is and how he's delusional if he thinks he's living the dream, and Roman basically replies "You think I don't know that? But guess what, it's still a Hell of a lot better than what would be waiting for us back home and everything I own, I've earned it by making an honest living. Meanwhile, you come here and you start killing people while living off MY place and MY money that I worked my ass off to gain, and you have the audacity to give me shit for the way I live my life?!" That was a shockingly good character moment for one of these games. It’s why I wish that just once, we get a GTA protagonist who doesn’t already have a criminal background, and is just caught up in circumstances beyond his control. The closest we got is Vic Vance in Vice City Stories. I know a lot of people just play GTA to walk around killing people and causing chaos, but aside from Trevor, that really goes against the personalities of nearly all the protagonists.
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Post by darbus alan on Sept 8, 2023 18:03:00 GMT -5
That's why I liked CJ. Like he seemed like he was genuinely reformed and lived an honest life in Liberty City. Then the gang culture and corrupt Los Santos cops dragged him back down into a life of crime.
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Post by Hurbster on Sept 8, 2023 18:44:30 GMT -5
I would have to go with the original Deus Ex as my personal favourite.
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MolotovMocktail
Grimlock
Home of the 5-time, 5-time, 5-time, 5-time 5-time Super Bowl Champion 49ers-and Wrestlemania 31
Posts: 14,055
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Post by MolotovMocktail on Sept 8, 2023 22:15:09 GMT -5
That's why I liked CJ. Like he seemed like he was genuinely reformed and lived an honest life in Liberty City. Then the gang culture and corrupt Los Santos cops dragged him back down into a life of crime. CJ wasn’t reformed in Liberty. He wasn’t part of a gang, but he was still carjacking and mugging people. Though ultimately he had more of a conscience than people like Claude and Tommy Vercetti.
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Post by SsnakeBite, the No1 Frenchman on Sept 9, 2023 1:43:08 GMT -5
That's why I liked CJ. Like he seemed like he was genuinely reformed and lived an honest life in Liberty City. Then the gang culture and corrupt Los Santos cops dragged him back down into a life of crime. CJ also buried a man alive in concrete and litteral shit just so he could take over some land, without batting an eye and taunting him the entire time so again, hard for me to buy into the idea that deep down, he was a good person who was just a victim of circumstances. That's my problem. It's one thing to have your characters commit crimes, it's another to have them gleefully murder people in the most painful, torturous way imaginable. If you're gonna have a psychopathic villain protagonist, have a psychopathic villain protagonist, but don't do that and then pretend that they have good intentions. So I guess in conclusion, I do like the stories of GTA games, but they have a serious problem with protagonist-centered morality.
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