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Post by Stone Cold Eleanor Shellstrop on Sept 23, 2023 17:48:40 GMT -5
Dude got stabbed by a guy named Aaron. These Cena threads got me like...
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Sept 23, 2023 18:45:40 GMT -5
I don’t think much about ranking Cena in terms of “definitive G.O.A.T” choices because he’d be the first to tell you he’s no Billy Robinson style mat wizard, and fans all have their own different visibility/top draw definitions. But I’d still rank him somewhere in my personal top ten alongside Misawa, Savage, Bret, Ric Flair, Eddie Guerrero, Okada, Angle, etc.
He has a knack for both keeping it simple and also surprising the crowd with something unexpected, allowing him to have great chemistry with a wide variety of guys. Plus the way he’s often so thrilled to be in the ring and being these kids’ hero is infectious.
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Super Duper Dragunov
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Post by Super Duper Dragunov on Sept 23, 2023 20:02:44 GMT -5
No. I will preface this by saying I think he's a very good and underrated worker - he got a lot of criticism in the mid/late-2000s about his actual work from a lot of people, including me, that in hindsight was very unfair and really related more to his booking - and did an admirable job of being the public face of WWE through what was a pretty difficult period for the company in a lot of ways. But he was also on top in a period when WWE and the industry in general was in a slump, and during his career as a full-timer never had the crossover appeal that some others before him had to make wrestling relevant again: for example, he was a film star not because there was interest in him from outside of the wrestling bubble, but because WWE made films for him to star in so they could say he was. I also think that while no top babyface is universally revered, his divisiveness is a big mark against him. In terms of measurable statistics I believe he's not even in the top ten box office draws, he's not the top merchandise seller, he's up there as one of the biggest pay-per-view draws but that's a relatively new (IE, late eighties and onwards) metric to go by and so discounts a lot of massive draws, and it coincides with the start of the WWE and Wrestlemania brands often being used to sell shows. But this isn't a knock by any means, he was the right man at the time. Like Sting in WCW in the nineties, he was a Mr. Reliable top babyface and probably ranks as one of the most valuable wrestlers to a company in history, and huge respect to him for that. Yeah, I could rank him up there as Most VALUABLE of all time, but certainly not the greatest. And if we dig deeper into why Vince is pushing so hard with it, the timing of it, and Cena's undying loyalty to the man it gets a bit yuck.
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Post by thegame415 on Sept 23, 2023 21:17:26 GMT -5
If we're talking drawing power, I'd put him in the top 5, without a doubt.
We're just a stage where it's so hard to name an undisputed greatest of all time in many different avenues. In 1960, it was easier to say Babe Ruth was the greatest ever in baseball.
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andrew8798
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Post by andrew8798 on Sept 23, 2023 21:31:43 GMT -5
Yeah it depends what system you use cause as a draw he is in the top 5
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tirtefaa
Unicron
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Post by tirtefaa on Sept 23, 2023 21:35:52 GMT -5
I mean, he carried the company through a rough patch, but pro wrestling isn't main mainstream the way it was with guys like Hogan, Austin or Rock. Cena didn't cross over to the main stream pop culture the same way those guys did.
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TWERKIN' MAGGLE
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Sept 23, 2023 21:39:25 GMT -5
If he's the greatest of all time, explain this:
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bob
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Post by bob on Sept 23, 2023 21:49:17 GMT -5
Kurt Angle is the GOAT in my book... but Cena is definitely in the conversation
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Sept 23, 2023 22:17:13 GMT -5
A great by all meants, but the GOAT?
Nah.
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Post by Urn Anderson on Sept 24, 2023 10:32:51 GMT -5
I’d rank them Hogan, Austin, Bruno, Rock, and Cena, which is still pretty darn great.
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Eunös ✈
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Post by Eunös ✈ on Sept 24, 2023 14:29:27 GMT -5
He is certainly up there but I don't know if I would have him as the outright greatest.
I feel Hogan and Austin made slightly bigger impacts.
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Magnus the Magnificent
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Post by Magnus the Magnificent on Sept 24, 2023 16:12:03 GMT -5
The GOAT, depending on how you measure it, no.
Top ten, or maybe even five, regardless of criteria? Yes, without a doubt.
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Nosnorb
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Post by Nosnorb on Sept 24, 2023 16:15:53 GMT -5
Dude is still active, so there is a chance he could become the GOAT if he has a late career resurgance on the level of Billy Gunn embracing the ass or Christian Cage wearing a turtleneck.
If he comes up with something on that level, then dude is The GOAT for sure.
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Post by LiamMcDuggle on Sept 24, 2023 16:32:38 GMT -5
Who thinks John Cena is the “Greatest of All Time” If you disagree, please state reasons Thank you. Depends on how you define "GOAT". Hogan and Austin were much bigger draws, but Cena's run was far more consistent. Unlike Hogan, Cena actually got better as his run continued. Everyone forgets that he was universally known as a bad wrestler early in his run. He could have easily just floated and continued using the same 5 moves, but the dude worked and got much better.
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Fundertaker
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Post by Fundertaker on Sept 24, 2023 17:06:23 GMT -5
Yeah, Bruce Hart exists therefor no
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Post by ChitownKnight on Sept 24, 2023 17:10:59 GMT -5
One thing I gotta say is that I think MJF has a possibility of being the GOAT. He’s 27 years old, over AF and he has another 15-20 years to go assuming he doesn’t go into acting. If John Cena is Tom Brady, the. MJF is Mahomes
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Fade
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Post by Fade on Sept 24, 2023 18:24:20 GMT -5
It’s a smart marketing gimmick taking advantage of his new-found fame and appreciation. It fits, he’s in that elder role. If you break it down to each category (mic skills, character work, in-ring, draw, etc etc) ironically John wasn’t the greatest at any particular thing. Bunch of other dudes leave him in the dust. When you take the totality of his career and contributions, I can see his fans thinking that. Edit: and in kayfabe it is kind of true lol One thing I gotta say is that I think MJF has a possibility of being the GOAT. He’s 27 years old, over AF and he has another 15-20 years to go assuming he doesn’t go into acting. If John Cena is Tom Brady, the. MJF is Mahomes I see him jumping to acting sooner than later. The Iron Claw will be interesting.
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Post by Stone Cold Eleanor Shellstrop on Sept 24, 2023 18:36:31 GMT -5
I'd also throw the criterion of being able to switch from face to heel or heel to face, change one's gimmick, and/or freshening up a gimmick to keep with the times.
Think of guys like Bret Hart, Hulk Hogan, the Undertaker, Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle, Steve Austin, the Rock, Bryan Danielson, and CM Punk (a controversial pick because of recent events).
Each guy did at least one of these things, which was a major shot in the arm for their career and for the business in some cases.
Besides changing the colours of his gear and adding a bad looking springboard stunner into his repertoire, I'm hard-pressed to think of any change Cena made in the last 15 years. If I were feeling generous, maybe Juan Cena?
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Post by Ganon83 on Sept 24, 2023 22:20:42 GMT -5
Rikidozan and El Santo were more culturally significant respectively. But I think Cena and Brock are the only ones who have wrestled in the last 20 years who the American public at large think of when you mention pro wrestling without going back to 80's or 90's wrestling, and Brock is much more in the "Wonder of the World" Andre category. And that's definitely worth something.
Cena also seems like a guy who works a very easy to understand style that can get a decent match out of damn near anybody. Not unique to him but it's a quality not everybody has. A little like Ric Flair, although obviously Cena doesn't have the range nor the end-to-end quality of work Flair had... pretending he didn't come back after 2008.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Sept 25, 2023 1:38:16 GMT -5
I like Cena the person a lot and have enjoyed a lot of his later career but sometimes I can't believe people type him in a list with Hogan, Austin, Rock etc with a straight face. Top 10 maybe.
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