Burst
El Dandy
*inarticulate squawking*
Posts: 8,598
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Post by Burst on Jan 24, 2024 16:25:39 GMT -5
It's definitely a topic for another thread, but I do wonder how the dominos would have fallen if AEW hadn't taken over ROH, or if they had taken it over purely for the rights without trying to run an active product concurrent with AEW.
Regarding having a resident show at Daily's Place or wherever, I'd almost say do that with your ROH and then maybe Rampage, to really help streamline your Dynamite and Collision.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 236,075
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jan 24, 2024 16:28:50 GMT -5
The most Ive seen them do promotion was Dalton Castle promoting AEW on the Free Beer and Hot Wings show when they had a show in Grand Rapids last year. Dalton being a friend of the show made for a good interview but there was a bit confusion of about the difference between him being in ROH, yet most of the taping was AEW. I'll be honest the taping themselves are a bit of a chore. Live Dynamite is great, then taped Rampage which might have a decent match or two. Then it was like an hour ROH squash matches, with no end in sight finally they mentioned the ROH main event was Daniels vs. ZBJ Not caring about either it was time to go. You want your audience to leave on a high note. Not just slowly filter out as the taping goes on. It was great to see Dalton Castle but most of it was matches for the sake of matches. Even a die wrestling fan that posts on a forum, I don't know if I would go to another AEW event unless something decent was announced a few days before hand. I think that there's an argument about fatigue at tapings and they've actually done well to mediate that with ROH now taping with Collision and Rampage with Dynamites, barring the live Rampage where I think they do ROH that night instead But at the same time, yes, there is an argument to be had about too much of a good thing, at the same time they aren't holding a gun to your head forcing you to stay or watch. I can't see a ton of people complaining about getting all that wrestling for whatever ticket price they paid, at the very least people can simply say they had their fill and split after so many matches, but you can't say AEW isn't trying to give you a shit ton of matches to watch for buying a ticket But they at the very least have realized that the old ways they taped things definitely needed to be scaled back, and far as I've seen especially with crowds staying for ROH or Rampage, it's been for the better.
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Post by Denny Zen is Cooking™ on Jan 24, 2024 16:48:31 GMT -5
The most Ive seen them do promotion was Dalton Castle promoting AEW on the Free Beer and Hot Wings show when they had a show in Grand Rapids last year. Dalton being a friend of the show made for a good interview but there was a bit confusion of about the difference between him being in ROH, yet most of the taping was AEW. I'll be honest the taping themselves are a bit of a chore. Live Dynamite is great, then taped Rampage which might have a decent match or two. Then it was like an hour ROH squash matches, with no end in sight finally they mentioned the ROH main event was Daniels vs. ZBJ Not caring about either it was time to go. You want your audience to leave on a high note. Not just slowly filter out as the taping goes on. It was great to see Dalton Castle but most of it was matches for the sake of matches. Even a die wrestling fan that posts on a forum, I don't know if I would go to another AEW event unless something decent was announced a few days before hand. I think that there's an argument about fatigue at tapings and they've actually done well to mediate that with ROH now taping with Collision and Rampage with Dynamites, barring the live Rampage where I think they do ROH that night instead But at the same time, yes, there is an argument to be had about too much of a good thing, at the same time they aren't holding a gun to your head forcing you to stay or watch. I can't see a ton of people complaining about getting all that wrestling for whatever ticket price they paid, at the very least people can simply say they had their fill and split after so many matches, but you can't say AEW isn't trying to give you a shit ton of matches to watch for buying a ticket But they at the very least have realized that the old ways they taped things definitely needed to be scaled back, and far as I've seen especially with crowds staying for ROH or Rampage, it's been for the better. AEW's in a trick box with this. TK wants to sell ROH as a separately viable touring brand that warrants having its own TV program, as opposed to simply being a reskinned Dark. It would be hard to sell that if ROH only taped at the old Impact Zone or Daily's Place or something. That said, having been to several AEW shows now, it is objectively true that it gets absolutely exhausting sitting through a bunch of ROH matches during a taping, but the ticket prices are valued for getting to see 3+ hours worth of matches. That probably does factor into why some people decide not to spend the money to go to a Collision taping, for example. AEW's PPVs have never had an attendance problem at all.
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bdon
Tommy Wiseau
Posts: 68
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Post by bdon on Jan 24, 2024 16:48:36 GMT -5
2021 after Punk and Danielson signed had people legit thinking that AEW was going to "take the next step" and could even challenge RAW in the ratings going forward. You just need to look at the demo ratings and viewing figures compared too now to see there was more interest in the company then. Also attendance figure wise AEW was outselling WWE is most markets, they was seen as the hot product. Natural to think that given they’d climbed so much under the Omega title reign, every character had motivations and story time, and a clear cut challenger on the climb. Page wins, and suddenly nobody else matters except Punk and who is working with Punk. Every other story feels less important, much like what you see on WWE branded television. All the while, Punk is screaming into every interview that “if eveyrone feels like a champ, no one is the champ.” Aka “make CM Punk a star” AEW was growing without Phil Brooks, and it began flatlining under his watch.
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Zone Was Wrong
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Currently living off the high that AEW brings every Wednesday and Friday
Posts: 16,200
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Post by Zone Was Wrong on Jan 24, 2024 16:55:25 GMT -5
Prices and TBA matches are a big issue at least for me. Imagine spending hundreds of dollars for some floor seats and getting a Daniel Garcia main event or something. Considering how hot the crowd popped for him in the live crowd in St. Louis? I don't think that's be an issue really. Dude was OVER.
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markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 18,381
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Post by markymark on Jan 24, 2024 17:23:34 GMT -5
Example number 23492420349 why Morffi is an idiot, he thought NFL fans who will be going to the Superbowl would also be interested in going to Collision.
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Post by Cyno on Jan 24, 2024 17:32:38 GMT -5
With how far these venues are booked in advanced, how long can this Morffi guy be a scapegoat for all of AEW's bad venue choices? And when can they start conceivably changing course?
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Post by raymondo316 on Jan 24, 2024 17:38:17 GMT -5
Example number 23492420349 why Morffi is an idiot, he thought NFL fans who will be going to the Superbowl would also be interested in going to Collision.
Jeff Jarrett also has to take some blame, his job role was literally working with Morffi and hes been doing this since November 2022
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Post by SneakMan on Jan 24, 2024 17:41:18 GMT -5
Natural to think that given they’d climbed so much under the Omega title reign, every character had motivations and story time, and a clear cut challenger on the climb. Page wins, and suddenly nobody else matters except Punk and who is working with Punk. Every other story feels less important, much like what you see on WWE branded television. All the while, Punk is screaming into every interview that “if eveyrone feels like a champ, no one is the champ.” Aka “make CM Punk a star” AEW was growing without Phil Brooks, and it began flatlining under his watch. Double or Nothing 2022 was, to me, the closest an AEW PPV has come to being outright bad, and featured Punk beating Hangman in the main event along with an Owen Hart tournament whose winners satisfied nobody, Wardlow's win over MJF being overshadowed by real-life drama, the Hardys seemingly being primed for a tag title run, Jade having the first of a seemingly endless string of filler title defenses, Thunder Rosa continuing to feel like an afterthought in a division she was champion of, the Eddie/Jericho feud extending long past its logical endpoint, Jurassic Express continuing a technically-solid but largely uninteresting tag title reign, and American Top Team doing rehashed Cornette shtick every single week to the delight of nobody. I dunno what, if any of that beyond the main event you can pin on Mr. Brooks but it certainly doesn't look good that AEW's downturn coincided with his coronation.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Jan 24, 2024 17:45:15 GMT -5
Natural to think that given they’d climbed so much under the Omega title reign, every character had motivations and story time, and a clear cut challenger on the climb. Page wins, and suddenly nobody else matters except Punk and who is working with Punk. Every other story feels less important, much like what you see on WWE branded television. All the while, Punk is screaming into every interview that “if eveyrone feels like a champ, no one is the champ.” Aka “make CM Punk a star” AEW was growing without Phil Brooks, and it began flatlining under his watch. Double or Nothing 2022 was, to me, the closest an AEW PPV has come to being outright bad, and featured Punk beating Hangman in the main event along with an Owen Hart tournament whose winners satisfied nobody, Wardlow's win over MJF being overshadowed by real-life drama, the Hardys seemingly being primed for a tag title run, Jade having the first of a seemingly endless string of filler title defenses, Thunder Rosa continuing to feel like an afterthought in a division she was champion of, the Eddie/Jericho feud extending long past its logical endpoint, Jurassic Express continuing a technically-solid but largely uninteresting tag title reign, and American Top Team doing rehashed Cornette shtick every single week to the delight of nobody. I dunno what, if any of that beyond the main event you can pin on Mr. Brooks but it certainly doesn't look good that AEW's downturn coincided with his coronation. Give Punk this, every single person on that show was trying to do a Sharpshooter and he was the only one physically capable of it.
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markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 18,381
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Post by markymark on Jan 24, 2024 18:05:06 GMT -5
With how far these venues are booked in advanced, how long can this Morffi guy be a scapegoat for all of AEW's bad venue choices? And when can they start conceivably changing course?
Until the Revolution go home show at the earliest.
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Post by raymondo316 on Jan 24, 2024 18:22:26 GMT -5
With how far these venues are booked in advanced, how long can this Morffi guy be a scapegoat for all of AEW's bad venue choices? And when can they start conceivably changing course? This is actually the type of venue AEW should be booking going forward, its a new venue with a capacity of 5500 and its not far from the arena they normally use in Vegas. The problem was stupidly booking for the same weekend as the Super Bowl
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Jan 24, 2024 18:25:38 GMT -5
I can see it being a stupid move to book it Super Bowl weekend but that also means there's a gigantic amount of people in town. I'm sure the hope is they get tickets sold late with a good walkup. That's how a ton of shows sell in the area.
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Post by Billie Gein on Jan 24, 2024 18:42:54 GMT -5
time to push some fresh out-and-out babyfaces to the top of the card BROTHER (imo)
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bdon
Tommy Wiseau
Posts: 68
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Post by bdon on Jan 24, 2024 18:45:37 GMT -5
Prices and TBA matches are a big issue at least for me. Imagine spending hundreds of dollars for some floor seats and getting a Daniel Garcia main event or something. Considering how hot the crowd popped for him in the live crowd in St. Louis? I don't think that's be an issue really. Dude was OVER. No one is spending money to watch Daniel Garcia. THAT is over. Getting audiences to play along and enjoy your performance makes you a good performer.
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MolotovMocktail
Grimlock
Home of the 5-time, 5-time, 5-time, 5-time 5-time Super Bowl Champion 49ers-and Wrestlemania 31
Posts: 13,975
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Post by MolotovMocktail on Jan 24, 2024 18:51:08 GMT -5
A company that expects crowds to pop for NJPW talent or Independent talent just by seeing their names on a screen during a debut are not catering to a casual/mainstream audience. It's catering to a more diehard audience. That's what I mean by "niche within a niche". It has nothing to do with variety on their shows. ECW in the mid to late 90's had variety too, it doesn't mean they were catering to the same market that WWF/WCW were at the time. Again, that's not a knock on Khan, sometimes it is better to master a specific niche than try to compete for a larger more unattainable market, but that's going to limit the company's ceiling in terms of things like live gates in the US. Maybe it will work better globally (Wembley was a huge success). I thought AEW's peak for me personally was around late 2021-early 2022. I'm not sure what the attendance was then compared to now, but I don't think they are firing on all cylinders like they were back then. That's just me though. I might agree if they did this all the time but they don't, and they don't over-rely on this either Yes they do it, it's arguable if it's to their benefit or not to gas up outside visiting talents, but I can't say it hasn't been to their benefit in some regards. Okada got the reactions they wanted, Vikingo has gotten the reactions they wanted, Mistico was treated like a king in his match. I think it's something I can say hasn't really hurt them or their ceiling, maybe it would if they did it constantly at all times but AEW has so much more going on at any given time I can't see an outside talent being on the card deterring people from going to their shows or watching the rest of usually a two hour program, personally. I think AEW's is as hot as they've ever been with a renewed focus on the sports aspect and presentation of their program. The Continental Classic really felt like it gave them some much needed juice and they're finally getting beyond the Punk shit, and with a new guy in charge of live events and bookings, I hope that area only improves as well. An issue AEW has is that when they do bring those guys in, they assume that the fans will all know who they are, and that they can just bring up things that happened in other places. There were some people online calling for Richard Holliday to be the Devil because he and MJF had history in MLW. That would be like if WCW went with the Angel of Death as the Black Scorpion: technically it would fit, but outside of a small group familiar with that promotion, not many fans would care. AEW needs to provide context and background in those instances, and not assume its fans watch every promotion every week.
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bdon
Tommy Wiseau
Posts: 68
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Post by bdon on Jan 24, 2024 18:54:49 GMT -5
Natural to think that given they’d climbed so much under the Omega title reign, every character had motivations and story time, and a clear cut challenger on the climb. Page wins, and suddenly nobody else matters except Punk and who is working with Punk. Every other story feels less important, much like what you see on WWE branded television. All the while, Punk is screaming into every interview that “if eveyrone feels like a champ, no one is the champ.” Aka “make CM Punk a star” AEW was growing without Phil Brooks, and it began flatlining under his watch. Double or Nothing 2022 was, to me, the closest an AEW PPV has come to being outright bad, and featured Punk beating Hangman in the main event along with an Owen Hart tournament whose winners satisfied nobody, Wardlow's win over MJF being overshadowed by real-life drama, the Hardys seemingly being primed for a tag title run, Jade having the first of a seemingly endless string of filler title defenses, Thunder Rosa continuing to feel like an afterthought in a division she was champion of, the Eddie/Jericho feud extending long past its logical endpoint, Jurassic Express continuing a technically-solid but largely uninteresting tag title reign, and American Top Team doing rehashed Cornette shtick every single week to the delight of nobody. I dunno what, if any of that beyond the main event you can pin on Mr. Brooks but it certainly doesn't look good that AEW's downturn coincided with his coronation. His coronation (and the build to it) was exactly when everything they did to build up the ENTIRE roster the months prior to Punk returning went out the window. Seriously, go back and watch early-to-mid 2021: there were 5-7 main stories going on in the company that garnered interest. Omega and the Bucks being champions didn’t require lots of focus. As soon as Page won the title, the shift in presentation of the show changed. First Dynamite after Omega dropped began with a “straight from the Raw playbook” opening promo from Page that got immediately interrupted by Bryan Danielson. This would be a theme for Page, a first time champion who was always presented as being less than his feuding opponent who’d come out, interrupt him, and leave Page sitting there making faces. Up and down the card, guys were no longer treated as important after November 2021 outside of whoever was involved with a Punk segment that night. Also of note, Punk went from being almost always on Rampage (failing to draw any eyes beyond that return show) to, for “some” strange reason, to opening every show and riding that Big Bang Theory number. Because “not being in the top ratings segment with Bischoff mocking me doesn’t work for me, brother.”
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Zone Was Wrong
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Currently living off the high that AEW brings every Wednesday and Friday
Posts: 16,200
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Post by Zone Was Wrong on Jan 24, 2024 19:00:21 GMT -5
Considering how hot the crowd popped for him in the live crowd in St. Louis? I don't think that's be an issue really. Dude was OVER. No one is spending money to watch Daniel Garcia. THAT is over. Getting audiences to play along and enjoy your performance makes you a good performer. Pretty bold to proclaim a broad statement like this. I'm guessing you've spoken to everyone and made sure they don't see DG as a draw? Survey perhaps? Dude is popular, just because you might think that doesn't mean it isn't true.
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bdon
Tommy Wiseau
Posts: 68
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Post by bdon on Jan 24, 2024 19:18:22 GMT -5
No one is spending money to watch Daniel Garcia. THAT is over. Getting audiences to play along and enjoy your performance makes you a good performer. Pretty bold to proclaim a broad statement like this. I'm guessing you've spoken to everyone and made sure they don't see DG as a draw? Survey perhaps? Dude is popular, just because you might think that doesn't mean it isn't true. I can assure you that any attempt to make fans pay to see DG specifically will fall flat, no matter how much Bryan Danielson tries to push him as a means to paying it forward.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Jan 24, 2024 19:21:11 GMT -5
With how far these venues are booked in advanced, how long can this Morffi guy be a scapegoat for all of AEW's bad venue choices? And when can they start conceivably changing course? Going by the rule of thumb? Anything that is already on sale is gonna be on him as Irby started a week or 2 ago. So I'd say when tickets start getting announced on sale in March is when you'll start to see Morffi get less blame.
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