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Post by kingoftheindies on Feb 16, 2024 9:07:56 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure Penta was on a show with CMLL talent as was Kommander no?
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Post by polarbearpete on Feb 16, 2024 9:40:28 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure Penta was on a show with CMLL talent as was Kommander no? According to cagematch, they have not.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
Celestial Princess in Exile.
Posts: 46,085
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Feb 16, 2024 9:52:06 GMT -5
CMLL doing CMLL things, again.
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Post by CeilingFan on Feb 16, 2024 10:00:21 GMT -5
AEW should just break all ties with AAA. CMLL has ties to New Japan and RevPro UK, so it's better to partner with them.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Feb 16, 2024 10:10:11 GMT -5
Penta and Vikingo worked a match in New Orleans for ROH which also featured CMLL talent that same night on AEW TV. So it seems that they can all work the same night, just not on the same TV show.
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Feb 16, 2024 10:18:10 GMT -5
Penta and Vikingo worked a match in New Orleans for ROH which also featured CMLL talent that same night on AEW TV. So it seems that they can all work the same night, just not on the same TV show. That is a bizarre way for the ROH purchase to come in handy, but perhaps not unforeseen given interpromotional drama.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Feb 16, 2024 10:18:51 GMT -5
AEW should just break all ties with AAA. CMLL has ties to New Japan and RevPro UK, so it's better to partner with them. I mean I said it before, the AAA deal is basically Tony wanting Vikingo
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Feb 16, 2024 11:11:28 GMT -5
Damn, I really hoped Tony wasn't bending to that unilateral "We gatekeep the entirety of Mexico, do not use Mexicans who are not ours" shit that CMLL threw around to get guys taken off of Forbidden Door, too. I hope he knows what he's doing and can balance this stuff properly.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
Celestial Princess in Exile.
Posts: 46,085
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Feb 16, 2024 11:12:57 GMT -5
Damn, I really hoped Tony wasn't bending to that unilateral "We gatekeep the entirety of Mexico, do not use Mexicans who are not ours" shit that CMLL threw around to get guys taken off of Forbidden Door, too. I hope he knows what he's doing and can balance this stuff properly. CMLL will get to play that card for as long as NJPW allows them to.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Feb 16, 2024 11:17:28 GMT -5
Damn, I really hoped Tony wasn't bending to that unilateral "We gatekeep the entirety of Mexico, do not use Mexicans who are not ours" shit that CMLL threw around to get guys taken off of Forbidden Door, too. I hope he knows what he's doing and can balance this stuff properly. CMLL will get to play that card for as long as NJPW allows them to. I get the vibe from CMLL that if Tony and New Japan told them to f*** off with that shit, CMLL would just pack up and leave.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Feb 16, 2024 11:18:39 GMT -5
You're going to run into issues no matter who you work with (CMLL or AAA). It may manifest differently over time but they'll be there. At least they can work in the same building which hasn't always been possible.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
Celestial Princess in Exile.
Posts: 46,085
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Feb 16, 2024 11:24:04 GMT -5
You're going to run into issues no matter who you work with (CMLL or AAA). It may manifest differently over time but they'll be there. At least they can work in the same building which hasn't always been possible. That's not as problematic as the "You can not work for New Japan, but through us" thing.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Feb 16, 2024 11:48:11 GMT -5
Komander even worked a match after the first big CMLL angle. I'm sure there are political things going on but I don't think anyone should be surprised though.
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lucas_lee
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Post by lucas_lee on Feb 16, 2024 12:45:49 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure Penta was on a show with CMLL talent as was Kommander no? Why would you agree to a stifling deal like that? Oh TK that doesn't make sense buddy.
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Post by polarbearpete on Feb 16, 2024 13:13:20 GMT -5
So does this essentially mean Penta and Fenix can’t work Forbidden Door?
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Post by Tea & Crumpets on Feb 16, 2024 13:32:59 GMT -5
I think they need to rethink how these partnerships work.
It's more a problem I find with AEW in general, or did- I've not watched a show in months, partly time commitments partly interest, but I'm not a big fan of exhibition matches as a format, for a regular show. If I want to watch a random contextless match, I'd watch a lot more random indy matches on youtube than I do, I certainly used to enjoy good matches for the sake of it but preferably ones where there's some sense of stakes or story, and its something I've got less and less interested in with time.
I've fallen off with NJPW since 2020 just due to affordability over the last few years, I dont want too many subscriptions, but I'm still broadly familiar with who their guys are except new guys since then, very out of the loop on storylines and found it hard to catch up. But that being out of the loop makes it hard for me to invest in the random NJPW/AEW matches. Not followed CMLL since aound 2007 so totally lost there. I do think it's a problem AEW has- they pitch to the most hardcore of hardcore fans and keep doubling down on that. I know who Minoru Suzuki is because I watched NJPW back when he was around a lot and a lot more dynamic in ring than he is now. If I was a casual or first time viewer now I wouldn't have a sense of why he's a big deal, and his matches have grown VERY formulaic, so I wouldn't get the hype. Even just a few more promo vignettes, or buffer segments to set up the stakes and context for matches would help IMO.
Danielson/ZSJ is on paper a match I'd love, but I don't feel like a ton of work was done to sell the setup or why people should care, it's just "care because you'll see some cool mat wrestling sequences".I've not even watched their rematch because I've not been following things. So again it's like...I could just watch Youtube or Twitter highlights for that, I want to get invested via the buildup and then see that story's finale unfold in the match. The commentary I don't find helps much either. We might get trivia reeled off about "this guy won X title in Y place" but not a lot to sell the personality, or stakes. Again it feels very reliant on "We're not telling you the story, do your own research", and it's why, even though I really have a lot of big issues with WWE's content, its easier for me to get invested because they do bring you up to speed hard & fast with the amount of recaps, video packages, commentary covering things repeatedly, etc. Yeah it's hammering it home if you're a regular weekly viewer but I prefer "beat you over the head with the story" to "do your own work to create the story based on researching their wrestling history because we're not providing a story beyond 'this match would be cool'".
Again I'm speaking as someone who's watched AEW sporadically up until a few months ago when I lapsed entirely becaue I was finding if I missed 2 weeks I felt completely lost, so maybe it has changed, but I can see OP's point. The Forbidden Door isn't integrated very well into storylines. Even just making a big deal of a sort of, competitive, brand warfare type thing with NJPW, lucha guys etc. similar to how WWE have done with Survivor Series or Bragging Rights in the past, covering the records & creating stakes (even fictional, cash prize or ranking boost or whatever) and building on this year to year, would help for me.
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UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm
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Post by UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm on Feb 16, 2024 13:40:44 GMT -5
I'm asking this from pure ignorance because I know so little about these Mexican federations but why exactly is it that every time I see talks about their partnerships, they're insane or petty as all f***?
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Post by Cyno on Feb 16, 2024 13:51:17 GMT -5
You can tell who is actually watching the shows or not because the things people are complaining about (there's no storyline!) don't actually exist with this current CMLL thing. It's an actual angle where the CMLL guys are "invading" and BCC have taken exception to it. Forbidden Door 2 also did a much better job than the first one of building up the matches as much more than exhibition matches for the sake of them. And of course if you're a lapsed fan, if you turn on the show for the first time in forever it's going to be confusing. That goes for wrestling in general. I turned on WWE for the first time in years after in 2005 and outside of some Attitude Era and WCW holdovers I had no idea who the f*** any of those people were. That's just how it is. I'm asking this from pure ignorance because I know so little about these Mexican federations but why exactly is it that every time I see talks about their partnerships, they're insane or petty as all f***? Because Lucha Libre politics makes even WWF and WCW at their most hostile look tame by comparison.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Feb 16, 2024 14:02:40 GMT -5
So does this essentially mean Penta and Fenix can’t work Forbidden Door? CMLL is why they hadn't even before this. But even Cubsfan/Luchablog says some of the report coming out is a bit misleading
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Post by Defrebel - White Pony on Feb 16, 2024 14:06:40 GMT -5
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