Stone Cold Turning Heel in Texas

[BRV]

We all know Stone Cold Steve Austin's heel turn is largely viewed as the end of WWF's Attitude Era and the point where the business started to trend downward. But did his heel turn flop because of where it started?

Stone Cold was never getting booed in Texas, and WrestleMania X-Seven was in the heart of the Lone Star State, at Houston's Astrodome. And it showed the night he won the championship with a McMahon-endorsed steel chair, then shook hands with Mr. McMahon, to the thunderous applause of the live fans in attendance.

Would the turn have worked better if WrestleMania were in Anaheim (2000) or Toronto (x8), or basically anywhere but the state synonymous with Stone Cold? Or was it destined to flop because it wasn't what the fans were asking for?

[Ben Wyatt]

Feb 29, 2024 13:14:29 GMT -5 BRV said:

We all know Stone Cold Steve Austin's heel turn is largely viewed as the end of WWF's Attitude Era and the point where the business started to trend downward. But did his heel turn flop because of where it started?

Stone Cold was never getting booed in Texas, and WrestleMania X-Seven was in the heart of the Lone Star State, at Houston's Astrodome. And it showed the night he won the championship with a McMahon-endorsed steel chair, then shook hands with Mr. McMahon, to the thunderous applause of the live fans in attendance.

Would the turn have worked better if WrestleMania were in Anaheim (2000) or Toronto (x8), or basically anywhere but the state synonymous with Stone Cold? Or was it destined to flop because it wasn't what the fans were asking for?

Yes and No.   It would have been initially better received, but had things gone the same trajectory? Nah. It was doomed to fail.

The better question is: What if the Invasion not happened and Austin hadn't been shackled to that collection of lesser thans?  I think he had a better shot of making it work if they kept him as the same coldhearted prick that murked JR and helped beat the absolute piss out of Lita and the Hardys 

[Saiyanic Panic]

Vince McMahon turned face.

I see what they were going for. Hometown boy betrays his ideals. We weren't having it.

No.  I don't think so. They went extreme in trying to get the crowd to dislike Austin and it really only worked vs. Angle. Using a steel chair on Lita, being a chickenshit, repeatedly changing his theme. I love that era Stone Cold but in large part he couldn't draw the heel reaction he wanted to save his life. Eventually he embraced it wasn't working and became a lot more quirky.

[Mid-Carder]

Austin turning heel at Mania 17 was a huge mistake but they were just trying something new. Turning him heel again just before Invasion was the WWF's biggest creative mistake ever. I will die on this hill.

[Clash, Never a Meter Maid]

It was the TV and newer Attitude audience who were especially burned by Austin selling out to Vince. I figure any other part of the country would have been in stunned silence. Texas, though? Texas didn’t give a rat’s rump, they just wanted to see Stone Cold get the belt and pound Rock into goo.

[Ben Wyatt]

Feb 29, 2024 13:31:19 GMT -5 Mid-Carder said:

Austin turning heel at Mania 17 was a huge mistake but they were just trying something new. Turning him heel again just before Invasion was the WWF's biggest creative mistake ever. I will die on this hill.

Yeah, they had an easy escape hatch looking them right in the face and either just didn't see it or REALLY thought the Alliance had more juice than it actually did

[Renslayer]

He wrestled with a viciousness that night he didn't have even when he was terrorizing bret hart. If the night after mania wasn't in Texas, the turn would've hit more effectively

[Jindrak Mark]

The next night on Raw they were still in Texas and the crowd went along with it and booed him. They were fully behind Rock during their cage rematch and went crazy when it looked like HHH was coming out to confront Austin but of course that was a swerve. On the night at Mania though even shaking hands with Vince wasn't enough to turn the crowd. They just wanted to see their home-field guy win the title.

Turning him heel I don't think was a terrible idea in general but the timing was just off. He had no big babyface to go against with Rock leaving and HHH's face turn just being a tease so he was feuding with midcard Hardys, upper-midcard Jericho/Benoit and Taker/Kane who felt more like gatekeepers than tippy top babyfaces at the time. Angle in the summer was a bit better but by then it had been months and the momentum/shock of his heel turn was gone. He needed a huge feud right off the bat. Realistically they should have ran with heel Austin v face HHH immediately after Mania. Fans were ready to cheer HHH after already doing a fake/swerve turn in Sep-Nov 2000 and pairing them just made a huge gap in credibility between the faces and heels.

It was also weird to me they didn't to a proper Austin/Rock rematch in 2001 when Rock returned. You'd think Rock would be gunning for revenge after what happened at Mania and it was a natural Summerslam main event but they barely interacted all you got from Austin v Rock was being on opposite sides of a tag match and a UK PPV match which I'm not sure was even canon on TV. He didn't seem to care too much about Vince screwing him over either. One Rock Bottom the night he returned then he happily joined him on Team WWF.

Feb 29, 2024 13:31:19 GMT -5 Mid-Carder said:

Austin turning heel at Mania 17 was a huge mistake but they were just trying something new. Turning him heel again just before Invasion was the WWF's biggest creative mistake ever. I will die on this hill.

I don't think it would have made a great deal of difference. Turning him back face even if live crowds went along with it was always going to leave a huge narrative hole of him not getting any comeuppance for those attacks on Lita etc and the cowardly stuff he had been doing. They basically did do that the night after Survivor Series anyway but if they did it 4 months earlier I don't think much changes other than The Alliance looking even weaker.

[ChitownKnight]

I think 2002 would have been a better time for a heel turn. Stone Cold and the Rock vs WCW could of been the main story for 2001, 2002 he could of turned heel at mania 18

[Cyno]

I thought the turn itself was fine. Everything that happened after... not so much. Though I did like the Two-Man Power Trip team of Austin and HHH for the brief time it lasted.

[Mayonnaise]

2002 could've worked with the added bonus of it being in Canada so they could have taken shots at Bret to help really drive it home that he needed to be boo'd or coming off the Invasion he turns on WWE and the fans for not appreciating him enough. Hell, imagine the heel duo of Austin and Rock running rough shod over WWE until run off by some new face. Shit have him rekindle his partnership with Heyman, Rock take on Paul as his Hollywood agent, and Brock is their muscle.

Anyway, not only was Houston wrong but he had only just returned after nearly a year away because of the neck injury. He was too fresh a face at that time.

[UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm]

Nah, the timing was just wrong. It wouldn’t have made a difference turning him heel in another place but he didn’t really have an immediate foil who could be cheered as much as Austin was before the turn. Don’t get me wrong, I loved pretty much all of heel austin (my favorite match is still him/HHH vs Jericho/Benoit to this day) but as someone already said it was doomed to fail.

Tough case of stuff I really liked but it objectively was a super poor decision by WWE.

[OGBoardPoster2005]

It failed because it was a shock moment with no real follow-up.

Austin could have been great as a one year dominant Heel Champion but Triple H had done that in 2000 and him suddenly playing second fiddle to Austin made no sense and was out of character for H.

On top of that the babyface roster was thin. After turning Heel and after The Rock leaves for a bit, your Top 3 Faces are Undertaker, Kane and Chris Jericho with Chris Benoit right after. While these were established names, once you got past that, what was the plan?

The Invasion didn't help either. It just made it all the more a mess.

By the end of 2001 they tried so hard to reset to 1999 that they brought back Bossman to fight Austin. Just a lot of bad decisions that ended a great era in the sport.

[Mochi Lone Wolf]

I actually think turning Kurt Angle heel after his feud with Austin in the summer was an even worse decision.

Austin as a heel needed a foil at or near his level. Before the fans turned Kurt the only true babyface rival he had was the man he beat the night he turned heel. Then Angle got red hot when he feuded with Stone Cold before he turned heel again, as well. Then it was just The Rock again.

[Ben Wyatt]

Feb 29, 2024 18:31:39 GMT -5 Mochi Lone Wolf said:

I actually think turning Kurt Angle heel after his feud with Austin in the summer was an even worse decision.

Austin as a heel needed a foil at or near his level. Before the fans turned Kurt the only true babyface rival he had was the man he beat the night he turned heel. Then Angle got red hot when he feuded with Stone Cold before he turned heel again, as well. Then it was just The Rock again.

Angle was killing it in the role of firey babyface. Turning him, especially the way they did, was asinine

["Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay]

Feb 29, 2024 14:00:14 GMT -5 Jindrak Mark said:

The next night on Raw they were still in Texas and the crowd went along with it and booed him. They were fully behind Rock during their cage rematch and went crazy when it looked like HHH was coming out to confront Austin but of course that was a swerve. On the night at Mania though even shaking hands with Vince wasn't enough to turn the crowd. They just wanted to see their home-field guy win the title.

Turning him heel I don't think was a terrible idea in general but the timing was just off. He had no big babyface to go against with Rock leaving and HHH's face turn just being a tease so he was feuding with midcard Hardys, upper-midcard Jericho/Benoit and Taker/Kane who felt more like gatekeepers than tippy top babyfaces at the time. Angle in the summer was a bit better but by then it had been months and the momentum/shock of his heel turn was gone. He needed a huge feud right off the bat. Realistically they should have ran with heel Austin v face HHH immediately after Mania. Fans were ready to cheer HHH after already doing a fake/swerve turn in Sep-Nov 2000 and pairing them just made a huge gap in credibility between the faces and heels.

It was also weird to me they didn't to a proper Austin/Rock rematch in 2001 when Rock returned. You'd think Rock would be gunning for revenge after what happened at Mania and it was a natural Summerslam main event but they barely interacted all you got from Austin v Rock was being on opposite sides of a tag match and a UK PPV match which I'm not sure was even canon on TV. He didn't seem to care too much about Vince screwing him over either. One Rock Bottom the night he returned then he happily joined him on Team WWF.

Feb 29, 2024 13:31:19 GMT -5 Mid-Carder said:

Austin turning heel at Mania 17 was a huge mistake but they were just trying something new. Turning him heel again just before Invasion was the WWF's biggest creative mistake ever. I will die on this hill.

I don't think it would have made a great deal of difference. Turning him back face even if live crowds went along with it was always going to leave a huge narrative hole of him not getting any comeuppance for those attacks on Lita etc and the cowardly stuff he had been doing. They basically did do that the night after Survivor Series anyway but if they did it 4 months earlier I don't think much changes other than The Alliance looking even weaker.

This is actually often forgotten - Austin as a heel was over like gangbusters the next night, and Triple H immediately became a mega over babyface when he teased saving the Rock.

WWF's main issue was they had no f***ing babyfaces for him to work against

[msc]

Not sure "have it in Anaheim" is the answer, ever, tbh, going off Mania 2000.

Austin's heel turn lit a fire under him. He went all out in 2001, "you think these internet favourites are better than me, I'll show you" and was just producing great match after great match. (In retrospect he might have burned himself out doing so.)

As soon as he attacked Lita those crowds were baying for his blood.

The real big issue was that they made him the old Stone Cold...for 6 days. That was imo the moment it jumped the shark.

If they'd had Austin in charge of the WWE against the Invasion his 3 month heel run would have been a curio rather than End of an Era Disaster. (Which his work in it didn't deserve it to be.)

[Vice honcho room temperature]

What didn't help was he didn't feud with the Rock at any point of it. I know they were trying to establish Austin and HHH as the two man power trip but feuding with the Undertaker? Again?

[Renslayer]

Mar 1, 2024 9:26:33 GMT -5 Vice honcho room temperature said:

What didn't help was he didn't feud with the Rock at any point of it. I know they were trying to establish Austin and HHH as the two man power trip but feuding with the Undertaker? Again?

They knew Rock was leaving for a while and didn't have anyone new ready to take on Austin until angle in the summer. That's negligence right there

[Bo Rida]

I mock modern wwe for calling everything historic but can't deny Heyman was correct when he said "We are witnessing something that will be talked about for years to come."