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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Mar 7, 2024 12:36:23 GMT -5
They treat this moment like it was them winning a World War I think this is singlehandedly the biggest gaslight of the Monday Night Wars era in how much it is talked up as being some legendary, insane, unthinkable moment, when if you actually watch it in real time, it was... like literally nothing. It's only talked up as much as it is because well, WWE won, WCW lost, and HHH could act like he was amazing and a huge reason WCW failed... something he'd carry his whole career and even into his Mania Match with Sting... which was one giant propaganda piece in itself tbh. This one is such a piece of propaganda that they don’t even say the right vehicle. It’s always, “DX showed up in a tank!,” when it’s clearly not a tank. But I guess, “DX showed up in a Jeep with some spray-painted PVC pipe on it,” doesn’t sound as cool.
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Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Mar 7, 2024 13:00:58 GMT -5
They treat this moment like it was them winning a World War I think this is singlehandedly the biggest gaslight of the Monday Night Wars era in how much it is talked up as being some legendary, insane, unthinkable moment, when if you actually watch it in real time, it was... like literally nothing. It's only talked up as much as it is because well, WWE won, WCW lost, and HHH could act like he was amazing and a huge reason WCW failed... something he'd carry his whole career and even into his Mania Match with Sting... which was one giant propaganda piece in itself tbh. This one is such a piece of propaganda that they don’t even say the right vehicle. It’s always, “DX showed up in a tank!,” when it’s clearly not a tank. But I guess, “DX showed up in a Jeep with some spray-painted PVC pipe on it,” doesn’t sound as cool. I wouldn't call that WWE propaganda given that, as a Transformers fan, I am extremely used to APCs and self-propelled artillery and the like being called tanks by people who don't really think past "it has a cannon on top." We can all see it's a jeep, but we also don't expect Vince McMahon to be able to rent an M1A1 Abrams tank, so we all sort of accept that it's a prop representing a tank.
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tirtefaa
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Post by tirtefaa on Mar 7, 2024 13:12:15 GMT -5
HHH could act like he was amazing and a huge reason WCW failed What's funny is how mostly insignificant Triple H was in the Monday Night Wars. Being as generous as I can be to him by only including the big names that were there during most of the 'Wars', Hunter was at best the 6th most over guy for WWF; Steve Austin The Rock Undertaker Kane Mankind All got better and bigger pops consistently. Add into guys like Jericho and the Hardys, and he goes down even further. Then in WCW, you had; Sting Goldberg DDP Ric Flair Lex Luger The nWo (via the Scott Hall survey) All bigger consistent pops. Most of Triple H's biggest pops too were people chanting along to D-X. And that isn't to downplay Triple H's place in history, since he does have a place...but no one was going to school or work and talking about him. In truth, he was putting on a lot of good work, but most people simply weren't buying a ticket for him. That's why when Raw GM Eric Bischoff said that had he had Triple H for WCW, history would be much different. I thought it was pretty funny. Trips probably wrote that line himself.
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Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Mar 7, 2024 13:20:37 GMT -5
Most of Triple H's biggest pops too were people chanting along to D-X. And that isn't to downplay Triple H's place in history, since he does have a place...but no one was going to school or work and talking about him. In truth, he was putting on a lot of good work, but most people simply weren't buying a ticket for him. To add on, in my perception as an elementary school kid who wasn't watching wrestling yet, X-Pac was the face of DX, not Triple H. Triple H got the higher-ranked title, but that feels almost entirely like it was an artifact of the mentality that the biggest star had to be the heavyweight instead of the cruiserweight.
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Mar 7, 2024 13:56:55 GMT -5
This one is such a piece of propaganda that they don’t even say the right vehicle. It’s always, “DX showed up in a tank!,” when it’s clearly not a tank. But I guess, “DX showed up in a Jeep with some spray-painted PVC pipe on it,” doesn’t sound as cool. I wouldn't call that WWE propaganda given that, as a Transformers fan, I am extremely used to APCs and self-propelled artillery and the like being called tanks by people who don't really think past "it has a cannon on top." We can all see it's a jeep, but we also don't expect Vince McMahon to be able to rent an M1A1 Abrams tank, so we all sort of accept that it's a prop representing a tank. I get what you’re saying, but as someone who sees a tank as a tank, I see it as a Jeep with some pipe from Home Depot painted and attached. And I certainly get not wanting to pay the money and deal with the hassle of getting permits to film a prop tank, even if it could be arranged on the short notice they likely decided to do this on. And I get that a .50 caliber machine gun mounted on the back would be more authentic but also wouldn’t be as “cool” as a tank barrel. But it ended up looking like a Jeep with a pipe attached. I think the best solution would have been to not do it in the first place, but I thought it was lame at the time, let alone after all these years of, “DX showed up in a tank and won the Monday Night Wars and WCW went out of business.”
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Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Mar 7, 2024 19:03:17 GMT -5
Didn't HHH steal a fighter jet after the 'tank'? I would have talked more about HHH being able to fly a jet.
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Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Mar 7, 2024 19:07:10 GMT -5
The funny thing is, you don't even need to embellish anything when it comes to WCW. You could talk about their own wastefulness and incompetence sending them out of business with no propaganda whatsoever.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Mar 7, 2024 20:11:56 GMT -5
On the tank I feel like WWE pushed it so much that it's had the opposite effect on the fans. that the fans act like it was nothing, WWE act like it was a major deal... when in reality it was just one of those cool moments in the Attitude Era. The funny thing is, you don't even need to embellish anything when it comes to WCW. You could talk about their own wastefulness and incompetence sending them out of business with no propaganda whatsoever. Yeah, a lot of the real story sounds like propaganda already.
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Glitch
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Post by Glitch on Mar 8, 2024 7:39:28 GMT -5
While we're on the monday night wars, vince really pushed the idea that wcw went out of business because wwf's ratings were so damn good that they couldn't compete. The monday night wars dvd even framed the buy out as the wcw wrestlers being relieved that the company was finally out of it's misery. The fall of wcw was entirely from within. Even if the wwf were to be lukewarm during the whole war, wcw would have still fallen.
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Post by Jaws the Shark on Mar 8, 2024 12:47:40 GMT -5
While we're on the monday night wars, vince really pushed the idea that wcw went out of business because wwf's ratings were so damn good that they couldn't compete. The monday night wars dvd even framed the buy out as the wcw wrestlers being relieved that the company was finally out of it's misery. The fall of wcw was entirely from within. Even if the wwf were to be lukewarm during the whole war, wcw would have still fallen. Not only WCW, but the territories. He loves to position himself as the conquerer of all these feckless small towners, but territorial wrestling was doomed. Cable had changed broadcasting, business declined in a lot of towns in the seventies, and the old promoters were approaching retirement and chose to sell up or fold. He could've done absolutely nothing and the old territories would still have ended up consolidated into four or five companies. But, you know, that doesn't sound as impressive.
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Mar 8, 2024 12:53:57 GMT -5
I don't know if it fits as 'propaganda' per se, but Briscoe's incessant ass-kissing in the Monday Night Wars video still makes me laugh to this day. And I also learned not to mess with MISTER MACK-MAN! “He’ll whup yer butt!” The stooge gimmick wasn’t much of a gimmick at all it turns out. All the sucking and kissing up that Johnny Ace knows he learned from Brisco
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Mar 8, 2024 17:32:12 GMT -5
While we're on the monday night wars, vince really pushed the idea that wcw went out of business because wwf's ratings were so damn good that they couldn't compete. The monday night wars dvd even framed the buy out as the wcw wrestlers being relieved that the company was finally out of it's misery. The fall of wcw was entirely from within. Even if the wwf were to be lukewarm during the whole war, wcw would have still fallen. Not only WCW, but the territories. He loves to position himself as the conquerer of all these feckless small towners, but territorial wrestling was doomed. Cable had changed broadcasting, business declined in a lot of towns in the seventies, and the old promoters were approaching retirement and chose to sell up or fold. He could've done absolutely nothing and the old territories would still have ended up consolidated into four or five companies. But, you know, that doesn't sound as impressive. The Territory bit is not really WWE Propaganda I mean even the territory owners blame Vince for the collapse. when the truth is he did what multiple others wanted to or attempted to, but he was successful at it... but the collapse was inevitable.
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Post by Jaws the Shark on Mar 8, 2024 18:12:33 GMT -5
Not only WCW, but the territories. He loves to position himself as the conquerer of all these feckless small towners, but territorial wrestling was doomed. Cable had changed broadcasting, business declined in a lot of towns in the seventies, and the old promoters were approaching retirement and chose to sell up or fold. He could've done absolutely nothing and the old territories would still have ended up consolidated into four or five companies. But, you know, that doesn't sound as impressive. The Territory bit is not really WWE Propaganda I mean even the territory owners blame Vince for the collapse. when the truth is he did what multiple others wanted to or attempted to, but he was successful at it... but the collapse was inevitable. Well, you say that but again, it probably sounds better for them to blame him rather than admit that the whole territorial structure was on borrowed time, and in the case of Crockett or Gagne, that they cocked up. As you said, it was inevitable and others wanted to, he just ended up at the top of the pile. He took the Southwest and Georgia TV slots, but the situations those two promotions were in were such that if it hadn't been him then it would've been Watts or Crockett, and in the case of Georgia those two ended up doing exactly that. The same goes for the regional offices, I think Crockett actually acquired as many if not more than McMahon, which was sort of his downfall, not just waiting for them to become obsolete which most of them would have done.
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Post by LiamMcDuggle on Mar 8, 2024 18:49:16 GMT -5
Big Show on the NWO or Monday Night War DVD. I can't remember which one it was. Dude completely buried WCW as if it gave him nothing. Or maybe it was a Confidential piece on Death of WCW. That's honestly how he felt, though. Like, obviously, WCW gave him a great start by any metric, but then they kind of f***ed him over. When Curt Hennig came in and made more money than him, and Bischoff being a dismissive prick to him when he was getting ready to renegotiate, it was kind of a given what was going to happen next, even without Paul stopping just short of admitting the WWF spoke to him when he was still under contract to WCW. I mean ya, but its not like WWE has treated him super well over the years
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Post by Mozenrath on Mar 8, 2024 19:23:36 GMT -5
That's honestly how he felt, though. Like, obviously, WCW gave him a great start by any metric, but then they kind of f***ed him over. When Curt Hennig came in and made more money than him, and Bischoff being a dismissive prick to him when he was getting ready to renegotiate, it was kind of a given what was going to happen next, even without Paul stopping just short of admitting the WWF spoke to him when he was still under contract to WCW. I mean ya, but its not like WWE has treated him super well over the years Oh, he had his share of issues there, too, ultimately leaving over it, but they at least paid him better.
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Post by Sephiroth on Mar 11, 2024 10:16:51 GMT -5
The “working relationship” with ECW. They pretty much just helped themselves to whatever they wanted from ECW and put Heyman on payroll to get the tape library.,
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DragonMasterP
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Post by DragonMasterP on Mar 11, 2024 10:27:12 GMT -5
I don't know for sure so I have to ask: Does WWE still talk about "This is Your Life" like it's the highest rated thing in RAW history?
If so, then that's also false, that distinction actually belongs to the Steve Austin Vs. Undertaker match for the WWF Championship on 6/22/1999.
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Post by cjh on Mar 11, 2024 10:32:55 GMT -5
The “working relationship” with ECW. They pretty much just helped themselves to whatever they wanted from ECW and put Heyman on payroll to get the tape library., Jim Ross confirmed that he cut ECW's parent company a check every week starting in 1996 when he was in charge of payroll. WWE also loaned ECW $500,000 in 2000 to put on the Heat Wave PPV that year.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Mar 11, 2024 10:39:16 GMT -5
They treat this moment like it was them winning a World War I think this is singlehandedly the biggest gaslight of the Monday Night Wars era in how much it is talked up as being some legendary, insane, unthinkable moment, when if you actually watch it in real time, it was... like literally nothing. It's only talked up as much as it is because well, WWE won, WCW lost, and HHH could act like he was amazing and a huge reason WCW failed... something he'd carry his whole career and even into his Mania Match with Sting... which was one giant propaganda piece in itself tbh. Don't forget it was done on a day Nitro was pre-empted for other sports, so they crowed about DX visiting an arena they were never getting access to and getting massive ratings against a show that was broadcast in a truncated form at midnight. They ran multiple such DX skits but they don't mention those because it's harder to spin them as important, because they weren't.
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Post by jason1980s on Mar 11, 2024 11:13:28 GMT -5
Watching the nWo A&E bio yesterday, you could tell just how much cooler nWo was compared to DX. It was like adults versus children. DX's act got pretty stale and that's probably why at times they tended to be split up for matches or angles while nWo was successful more as a team, could be in different matches and skits but still together for parts of PPVs or Nitro. It really wasn't until they started adding everybody that it started to sour.
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