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Post by LiamMcDuggle on Mar 4, 2024 16:19:58 GMT -5
Less of a comment of Sting's final match, but it's funny to see how wrestlers are aging now compared to 20 years ago.
Is there any scientific reason for this? I mean, if you also look at Christian and Edge, they are more or less wrestling the same style and with the same pace as they did 15 years ago, and they are also over 10 years older than what Hogan, Piper, and the rest of the veterans of that time.
Kurt Angle blames pain killers for killing his mobility, so I am thinking there might be a correlation with that.
On the flip side, Backlund was still hella mobile into his 60's, but the guy was straight edge and did like a thousand pushups and squats a day.
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Post by Denny Zen is Cooking™ on Mar 4, 2024 16:34:32 GMT -5
Some of it is genetics. Some of it is that we have a better understanding of things like nutrition than we did even in the early 2000s. Some of it is modern medicine.
Remember that after his match with Rollins his neck injury was labeled "career ending," but he was able to rehab and come back pretty much 100%. If he had tried a comeback from the exact same injury in like 2004, he would have probably been as plodding and immobile as Roddy Piper was in 2005. It's just like Rey Mysterio putting on such high-level performances over the course of the last 3-4 years despite, by all accounts, his knees having been completely shot more than a decade ago before he received PRP/stem cell treatment that simply wasn't available until very recently.
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Post by Bo Rida on Mar 4, 2024 16:43:24 GMT -5
Some of it is genetics. Some of it is that we have a better understanding of things like nutrition than we did even in the early 2000s. Some of it is modern medicine. Remember that after his match with Rollins his neck injury was labeled "career ending," but he was able to rehab and come back pretty much 100%. If he had tried a comeback from the exact same injury in like 2004, he would have probably been as plodding and immobile as Roddy Piper was in 2005. It's just like Rey Mysterio putting on such high-level performances over the course of the last 3-4 years despite, by all accounts, his knees having been completely shot more than a decade ago before he received PRP/stem cell treatment that simply wasn't available until very recently. Yeah it’s the same in other sports. What once were potential career enders are now treatable with modern surgery/medicine. Plus yoga to prevent them. Of course the cocktail of drugs and schedules back then didn’t help. Even those chemically enhanced are more sensible these days.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Mar 4, 2024 16:48:22 GMT -5
Some of it is genetics. Some of it is that we have a better understanding of things like nutrition than we did even in the early 2000s. Some of it is modern medicine. Remember that after his match with Rollins his neck injury was labeled "career ending," but he was able to rehab and come back pretty much 100%. If he had tried a comeback from the exact same injury in like 2004, he would have probably been as plodding and immobile as Roddy Piper was in 2005. It's just like Rey Mysterio putting on such high-level performances over the course of the last 3-4 years despite, by all accounts, his knees having been completely shot more than a decade ago before he received PRP/stem cell treatment that simply wasn't available until very recently. This is kind of a tangent, but sixteen years ago, my grandfather passed from a rare degenerative disorder that was not yet that widely understood, to the point that he spent decades being misdiagnosed and shuffled around confused specialists unsure what they were looking at. My mother has been diagnosed with the same disorder and is now on the same path he was. Except, she has a doctor who understands the disorder and is in a clinical trial to slow and potentially halt the degeneration entirely, because in the sixteen years since, a lot of major work at understanding the disorder and treating it has been made. The progress of modern medicine is absolutely crazy, and the innovations behind it are absolutely beyond what we necessarily realize; in a field like sports medicine that has meaningful investment and energy into it because of what the value of its work can be, it's even more dramatic. Wrestlers today enjoy so much more than they did forty years ago in being able to protect, maintain, and heal their bodies.
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Post by yokohamacpfc on Mar 4, 2024 17:10:45 GMT -5
In football/soccer Messi has no business playing at a world class standard at 36. Both Pele and Maradona were washed up at 30 and George Best who could have been better than both of them was done at 25 (an extreme case of alcoholism).
Pele had the crap kicked out of him by defenders and Maradona struggled with his weight so advanced techniques in injury rehab and nutrition and dieting have probably saved Messi from this fate. Anabolic steroids can be a factor too especially with injuries and I think TRT helps too (maybe if Punk wants to continue in ring into his late 40s and 50s he is going to have to compromise with his beliefs. Still, that’s a decision only he can make).
Whatever the reasons these advances are only going to continue so expect to see more middle aged World Cup winners, Olympic medalists and wrestling champions (we’re already accustomed to the last one thanks to WCW).
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Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Mar 4, 2024 20:06:07 GMT -5
In the specific cases of Piper and Hogan, Piper had his hip replacement surgery at 40 and Hogan’s legdrop basically destroyed his hips and lower back after doing it thousands of times over the years.
Probably the same reason the Hardys are far less mobile than E&C and even the Dudleys now. It’s not just taking bumps but what bumps you take and what part of the body you’re abusing the most.
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mcstoklasa
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Post by mcstoklasa on Mar 4, 2024 20:12:20 GMT -5
I've got to give Hogan some credit, even though he did look old and was quite slow, the 49/50 year old version of Hogan in 2002-2003 did put on some pretty fun matches.
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Post by Cyno on Mar 4, 2024 20:37:16 GMT -5
AEW also did a great job of making the most out of Sting's matches where he wasn't exposed. Darby Allin was an incredible tag partner in that regard.
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Post by Kalmia on Mar 4, 2024 21:03:18 GMT -5
Both Copeland and Christian probably added several years onto their careers by being retired for a few years as well.
I think it's a combination of wrestlers taking better care of themselves than they used to and the grind not being as heavy. I know we joke about Hogan working 400 days in a year because of time zones, but his schedule was more insane than the schedules of today. Add on the harder living and partying and it takes its toll.
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Post by tafkaga on Mar 4, 2024 21:29:51 GMT -5
Hogan lifted a big stinky 1000 pound giant over his head for as much as 400 days a year. Show me one time Sting did that and we'll talk.
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Mar 7, 2024 12:08:11 GMT -5
Probably the work outs with Jeff Cavaliere from Athlean X
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Post by Gerard Gerard on Mar 7, 2024 12:13:54 GMT -5
AEW also did a great job of making the most out of Sting's matches where he wasn't exposed. Darby Allin was an incredible tag partner in that regard. My sentiment too, to be honest — the reception to Sting's retirement run would've been more sour was he put in a position to carry topline matches. Sting was allowed pick his spots and had an absolute maniac in Darby there to carry the bulk of the match's substance. Contrast this to Piper and Hogan, both of whom were still trying to act (or being presented like, more accurately) like time hadn't passed and they were capable of delivering a spectacle worthy of headlining shows.
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Post by THE FVNKER on Mar 8, 2024 5:44:50 GMT -5
I’m not sure about Piper but as far as Hogan goes..
While I’d debate he wasn’t less mobile at 39 than Sting was at 64, I get the point of the statement. I think the biggest factor in Hogan’s mobility later in life was simply just his structure. He was billed at 6’7” at his peak so I’d say he was at least 6’4” as a shoot, but I do believe wholeheartedly he was over 300 lbs in the 80s. Sting was billed at 6’2” so that’s probably 6 foot for real right? 6’2” might be real but regardless..
Hogan was just a big dude and those guys’ bodies typically just crap the bed as they get older. It’s hard on a body to carry around all that size. Not to mention.. I’m not exactly against steroids, and when done in conjunction with proper healthcare professionals and responsibly I think they can be very beneficial, but they can lead to some joint issues. I think it’s safe to say that Sting probably did less, for less amount of time than Hogan did as well.
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Post by HMARK Center on Mar 8, 2024 5:46:32 GMT -5
Both Copeland and Christian probably added several years onto their careers by being retired for a few years as well. I think it's a combination of wrestlers taking better care of themselves than they used to and the grind not being as heavy. I know we joke about Hogan working 400 days in a year because of time zones, but his schedule was more insane than the schedules of today. Add on the harder living and partying and it takes its toll. Yeah, it can't be overstated what the 80s/90s WWF schedule did to wrestlers' bodies; a lot of territory era guys were used to working crazy schedules, but at least back then the travel was largely concentrated to specific geographic areas, depending which promotions you were working for awhile, and things like unchecked drug use and hardcore partying...well, they still happened, of course, but the specific drug cocktails that existed during the Hulkamania years were something else. Once Vince went national, his guys were traveling all over North America on a near daily basis, and eventually doing long international tours, as well, all while tons of them were getting encouragement to 'roid up as much as possible and stuff like party scene cocaine was rampant. While Sting definitely worked plenty for WCW, his schedule once the 90s rolled around was a lot different from someone who'd gone through that WWF meat grinder. That all said...yeah, it also very much involves a ton of things pertaining to modern medicine, training, nutrition, etc. that have come a ridiculously long way in the last number of years. A lot of us look back on being younger and remember thinking people in their late 30s/40s looked old; some of that was just a skewed perspective, since we were younger and thus had a different frame of reference, but I think it's also fair to say a lot of people in that 35-50 age (hey, that's me!) are looking younger these days due to those factors.
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XIII
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Post by XIII on Mar 8, 2024 6:05:17 GMT -5
Hogan and Piper’s hips were trash at that point.
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Post by Sephiroth on Mar 8, 2024 10:46:14 GMT -5
Sting was a clean living type. Didn’t put his body through as much as others did. He do took periodic breaks from the ring.
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Mar 8, 2024 11:06:52 GMT -5
In the specific cases of Piper and Hogan, Piper had his hip replacement surgery at 40 and Hogan’s legdrop basically destroyed his hips and lower back after doing it thousands of times over the years. Probably the same reason the Hardys are far less mobile than E&C and even the Dudleys now. It’s not just taking bumps but what bumps you take and what part of the body you’re abusing the most. Matt spent so many years doing Second-rope and Top-rope legdrops that I'm surprised he's not in a wheelchair.
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Post by Jindrak Mark on Mar 8, 2024 11:26:46 GMT -5
He had a good moveset in terms of not destroying his body. Stuff like the Stinger splash and the Scorpion death drop/lock are simple but not really the kind of simple that will tear your body apart over time like for instance the damage dropping the leg all those years did to Hogan's hips.
In terms of long-term main event level wrestlers he probably had less miles on him than most. He wrestled for 40 years with probably less than 15 being full-time. He barely worked a house show after 1996.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Mar 8, 2024 12:01:59 GMT -5
Sting also tended to work a style that was pretty easy on his body. Combine that with a very light schedule most of his career and being clean living since the mid 90s He's gonna be in much better shape. Kevin Nash also said on his podcast even when Sting did party a bit, he was always pretty smart about it and it would be drinking at the hotel bar he was staying at. And by Sting's own admission this past weekend he stopped taking steroids back in 1990
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Post by Cyno on Mar 8, 2024 16:52:18 GMT -5
AEW also did a great job of making the most out of Sting's matches where he wasn't exposed. Darby Allin was an incredible tag partner in that regard. My sentiment too, to be honest — the reception to Sting's retirement run would've been more sour was he put in a position to carry topline matches. Sting was allowed pick his spots and had an absolute maniac in Darby there to carry the bulk of the match's substance. Contrast this to Piper and Hogan, both of whom were still trying to act (or being presented like, more accurately) like time hadn't passed and they were capable of delivering a spectacle worthy of headlining shows. I think Sting was a lot more self-aware of his own limitations compared to other, older wrestlers. And his signature moves aren't nearly as rough on the body as say, Hogan's leg drop destroying his hips. The advances in medical technology, especially for the neck and spine, did wonders for Sting, too.
It was really smart how they used him: Darby did most of the work while Sting did his greatest hits and occasionally an insane-looking spot. It popped the crowd and kept him relatively safe while retaining his mystique as a character.
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