Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,101
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Post by Mecca on Apr 6, 2024 13:08:26 GMT -5
WWE has become the default entity when the majority of people think about wrestling. It's outdrawing AEW week in and week out in terms of ticket sales and ratings by an even larger degree than a year or two ago. The gap hasn't narrowed, it's widened. If TK wants to spend out on Becky and Seth, it'll mean excellent paydays for them. But AEW won't get any closer with them signed. I'd hope so WWE only had about a 50 year head start and 20 years unopposed.
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Post by eJm on Apr 6, 2024 13:15:16 GMT -5
WWE has become the default entity when the majority of people think about wrestling. It's outdrawing AEW week in and week out in terms of ticket sales and ratings by an even larger degree than a year or two ago. The gap hasn't narrowed, it's widened. If TK wants to spend out on Becky and Seth, it'll mean excellent paydays for them. But AEW won't get any closer with them signed. I'd hope so WWE only had about a 50 year head start and 20 years unopposed. It is sort of like me saying “Look at the gap between Walt Disney Pictures and A24! The gap is only widening” because…yeah, of course it is. Disney’s had 100 years head start and acquired every profitable TV network, film studio and IP possible (and Doug, for some reason).
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Kalmia
King Koopa
Happy to be here
Posts: 11,718
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Post by Kalmia on Apr 6, 2024 13:47:55 GMT -5
Popularity doesn't necessarily equal quality and never has. It just means it resonates with more people and if you're an alternative to the market leader, you have to be aware that you may never beat them regardless of how great you are.
I think that's what we're seeing here. There are a lot of people that only want the brand of wrestling they're getting from WWE and that's fine. Preferences are preferences and everyone has them.
Lots of people don't like what WWE is offering so we watch AEW, the same way lots of people don't like what Disney is offering so they watch A24 movies instead (sorry for stealing the previous example!) I think the happiest people are those who genuinely like both.
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Post by eJm on Apr 6, 2024 13:52:11 GMT -5
Lots of people don't like what WWE is offering so we watch AEW, the same way lots of people don't like what Disney is offering so they watch A24 movies instead (sorry for stealing the previous example!) I think the happiest people are those who genuinely like both. Steal away! It’s the one that made the most sense when seeing previous posts.
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Post by The anti-ratings Luddite on Apr 6, 2024 13:55:40 GMT -5
I'd hope so WWE only had about a 50 year head start and 20 years unopposed. It is sort of like me saying “Look at the gap between Walt Disney Pictures and A24! The gap is only widening” because…yeah, of course it is. Disney’s had 100 years head start and acquired every profitable TV network, film studio and IP possible (and Doug, for some reason). Everyone who's doomsaying about AEW is doing so because I think they wanted WWE to fail more than see AEW succeed, if that makes sense. I detest Vince McMahon as a human being, but he's gone now. I don't like WWE's production, and I've invested my time into AEW's roster more than I have WWE's. On top of that, AEW has better matches to me. That doesn't mean I'm actively rooting for WWE to go out of business tomorrow. On top of that, said doomsayers have probably never opened or operated a startup business before. You rarely start outpacing the market leader this fast, no matter how much money you have. And as a third thing... Tony Khan is rich as f***, y'all. Like his and Shad's wealth is a little over half of Endeavor's total assets, and one of those is a publicly traded company. And I don't think he's a complete idiot when it comes to money despite being born on 3rd base. There are such things as acceptable losses when when doing those quarterly spreadsheets, and where AEW is a privately owned company, he can spend as much or as little of his money as he wants, and we'll never know the numbers or how happy or not he is with it. AEW effectively ends the moment Tony/Shad decides THEY'RE done with it, not anyone else.
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KME
Team Rocket
Posts: 798
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Post by KME on Apr 6, 2024 14:09:01 GMT -5
WWE, its wrestlers and I presume even some of its fans were very keen to talk about how they never once looked at ratings and knew they just had the better product anyway when WCW had the more popular show, it's funny how different the viewpoint is now.
Unless ratings drop in a scary manner where they start losing their core audience AEW should keep signing big names and doing cool things with them because it's great for the fans, and fan service is a big part of AEW's identity, as well as being great for the industry if these guys have somewhere else to go and work with new names in a more forgiving schedule with more creative freedom. If any of them increase the audience, cool, but they shouldn't be disheartened because a product that's completely different to theirs is more popular. If AEW was more like WWE I wouldn't be watching it, if WWE is more popular so be it, it likely always will be and I likely won't ever care, loads of things I think are shit are very popular, while loads of my favourite movies, TV shows etc barely made an impression in terms of viewership or making big money. I dread to think how much more money a single Transformers movie made compared to something like Mulholland Drive.
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mystermystery
Dennis Stamp
Still in the White Hummer
Posts: 4,391
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Post by mystermystery on Apr 6, 2024 14:20:26 GMT -5
I'd hope so WWE only had about a 50 year head start and 20 years unopposed. It is sort of like me saying “Look at the gap between Walt Disney Pictures and A24! The gap is only widening” because…yeah, of course it is. Disney’s had 100 years head start and acquired every profitable TV network, film studio and IP possible (and Doug, for some reason). "A24 just picked up the rights to the Halloween franchise. That'll put butts in the seats." Wait...I think I messed up the metaphor.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Apr 6, 2024 14:33:01 GMT -5
I think with AEW, and I've said it before, the success they have had in such a short time, even with numbers falling for various reasons, is basically unheard of. Like even bad houses for AEW are houses that really only WWE and WCW have seen in the last 30 years.
That's not to downplay any criticisms but it's a perspective thing.
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Post by KingPooper on Apr 6, 2024 15:18:44 GMT -5
It was a few pages back and I’m gonna get hell for this…
But I’d rather watch Sheamus than Osprey and Okada. I can’t be the only one.
Of course Osprey and Okada are the better long term signings you want to book your company around.
But a free rein Sheamus putting on bangers in the twilight of his career in AEW makes my mouth water.
I won’t stand for this Sheamus slander.
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Post by Ronny Rayguns Is All Elite on Apr 6, 2024 15:33:05 GMT -5
WWE, its wrestlers and I presume even some of its fans were very keen to talk about how they never once looked at ratings and knew they just had the better product anyway when WCW had the more popular show, it's funny how different the viewpoint is now. Unless ratings drop in a scary manner where they start losing their core audience AEW should keep signing big names and doing cool things with them because it's great for the fans, and fan service is a big part of AEW's identity. If any of them increase the audience, cool, but they shouldn't be disheartened because a product that's completely different to theirs is more popular. If AEW was more like WWE I wouldn't be watching it, if WWE is more popular so be it, it likely always will be and I likely won't ever care, loads of things I think are shit are very popular, while loads of my favourite movies, TV shows etc barely made an impression in terms of viewership or making big money. I dread to think how much more money a single Transformers movie made compared to something like Mulholland Drive. David Lynch guest directing an episode of Rampage would be AMAZING this is the closest we've got so far
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Post by The anti-ratings Luddite on Apr 6, 2024 15:48:35 GMT -5
It was a few pages back and I’m gonna get hell for this… But I’d rather watch Sheamus than Osprey and Okada. I can’t be the only one. Of course Osprey and Okada are the better long term signings you want to book your company around. But a free rein Sheamus putting on bangers in the twilight of his career in AEW makes my mouth water. I won’t stand for this Sheamus slander. I can't argue with with getting Ospreay and Okada NOW is a better option. But also, inject Sheamus vs Brody King, Sheamus vs Eddie Kingston, Sheamus vs Lance Archer, Sheamus vs Fenix, Sheamus vs Pentagon etc. directly into f***ing veins.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Apr 6, 2024 15:50:35 GMT -5
AEW does not need to outsell WWE to do scare WWE. Frankly, they don't even need to inhibit WWE doing well to scare WWE. When the world of pro wrestling is WWE and then beneath it a bunch of local nobodies running bingo halls, WWE's won. When pro wrestling has another company packing Wembley, doing top ratings on cable their night, making competitive moves for top talent, and holding steady, that's a big problem for WWE. It drives up the cost of contracts, forces them to entice talent over, challenges their unilateral pop culture grip on everything about it, and defangs narratives that they are the one and only. Triple H learned the business side of this under Vince and he's proven to have a very similar approach in terms of end goal. I swear I remember hearing somewhere that some years back, the like really introductory classes at the PC badmouthed the indies and tried to make them seem really terrible and awful, to basically scare people into not trying to do them if WWE cut them and just leave the business instead. There's a reason for that. Triple H didn't try to hamper ROH when it was booming way way less than AEW at its lowest period ever did for nothing.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,305
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Post by The Ichi on Apr 6, 2024 16:07:51 GMT -5
AEW does not need to outsell WWE to do scare WWE. Frankly, they don't even need to inhibit WWE doing well to scare WWE. When the world of pro wrestling is WWE and then beneath it a bunch of local nobodies running bingo halls, WWE's won. When pro wrestling has another company packing Wembley, doing top ratings on cable their night, making competitive moves for top talent, and holding steady, that's a big problem for WWE. It drives up the cost of contracts, forces them to entice talent over, challenges their unilateral pop culture grip on everything about it, and defangs narratives that they are the one and only. Triple H learned the business side of this under Vince and he's proven to have a very similar approach in terms of end goal. I swear I remember hearing somewhere that some years back, the like really introductory classes at the PC badmouthed the indies and tried to make them seem really terrible and awful, to basically scare people into not trying to do them if WWE cut them and just leave the business instead. There's a reason for that. Triple H didn't try to hamper ROH when it was booming way way less than AEW at its lowest period ever did for nothing. People acting like HHH doesn't sweat AEW are hilarious.
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Post by THE FVNKER on Apr 6, 2024 16:12:21 GMT -5
I'd hope so WWE only had about a 50 year head start and 20 years unopposed. It is sort of like me saying “Look at the gap between Walt Disney Pictures and A24! The gap is only widening” because…yeah, of course it is. Disney’s had 100 years head start and acquired every profitable TV network, film studio and IP possible (and Doug, for some reason). Not to mention WWE and AEW are branded and marketed completely differently as well. I don’t watch WWE but it seems like only just now they’re even leaning back in to including “wrestling” as part of the brand. Otherwise it’s a traveling entertainment spectacle. AEW is purely marketed as wrestling, by wrestling fans for (generally speaking) wrestling fans. I don’t think AEW will likely surpass them in ways I’ve mentioned in other posts but when it comes to pro wrestling specifically, AEW already offers a product that WWE doesn’t have available.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Apr 6, 2024 16:15:48 GMT -5
AEW does not need to outsell WWE to do scare WWE. Frankly, they don't even need to inhibit WWE doing well to scare WWE. When the world of pro wrestling is WWE and then beneath it a bunch of local nobodies running bingo halls, WWE's won. When pro wrestling has another company packing Wembley, doing top ratings on cable their night, making competitive moves for top talent, and holding steady, that's a big problem for WWE. It drives up the cost of contracts, forces them to entice talent over, challenges their unilateral pop culture grip on everything about it, and defangs narratives that they are the one and only. Triple H learned the business side of this under Vince and he's proven to have a very similar approach in terms of end goal. I swear I remember hearing somewhere that some years back, the like really introductory classes at the PC badmouthed the indies and tried to make them seem really terrible and awful, to basically scare people into not trying to do them if WWE cut them and just leave the business instead. There's a reason for that. Triple H didn't try to hamper ROH when it was booming way way less than AEW at its lowest period ever did for nothing. People acting like HHH doesn't sweat AEW are hilarious. I will say what I always say, I'm fine with both sides taking fun shots at each other. But I do laugh how when people (rightly) criticize TK for how he handles media they tend to prop Triple H up when he's shown to be... not very good at that aspect as well.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 236,305
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Apr 6, 2024 16:21:57 GMT -5
I don't think him spending to get "Gimme Back My Bullets" as a tribute to a wrestler used by his brother lead to any wrestlers being released nor do I think it correlates to the parts they're trying to cut back on I think in that instance you splurge because of the moment it represents, and it doesn't mean it's tone deaf to also cut talent for year round cost measures. That being said, he barely cut talent as it is, Henry isn't even going to be released very long, it sucks and I wish he could have kept everyone but it's not like he cut a ton of talent that were even being used on programming for much of one reason or another and likely could be better serviced on the Indies anyway Only one that still doesn't make a lot of sense to me is Dasha, wish they could have found something else for her to do if you're gonna let Cruise handle announcing Rampage and Collision now. I also really hope people start booking Slim J, GCW could use someone like him, hell even Impact's X Division Making the specific boast that he spent more than a wrestlers yearly salary on a song at the same time of trying to justify firing people for budget reasons is totally wild. Oh he probably shouldn't have said it, I'm just not really surprised given he has always splurged for songs, it's probably just different in his mind whether we think it's tone deaf or not.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Apr 6, 2024 16:33:10 GMT -5
AEW does not need to outsell WWE to do scare WWE. Frankly, they don't even need to inhibit WWE doing well to scare WWE. When the world of pro wrestling is WWE and then beneath it a bunch of local nobodies running bingo halls, WWE's won. When pro wrestling has another company packing Wembley, doing top ratings on cable their night, making competitive moves for top talent, and holding steady, that's a big problem for WWE. It drives up the cost of contracts, forces them to entice talent over, challenges their unilateral pop culture grip on everything about it, and defangs narratives that they are the one and only. Triple H learned the business side of this under Vince and he's proven to have a very similar approach in terms of end goal. I swear I remember hearing somewhere that some years back, the like really introductory classes at the PC badmouthed the indies and tried to make them seem really terrible and awful, to basically scare people into not trying to do them if WWE cut them and just leave the business instead. There's a reason for that. Triple H didn't try to hamper ROH when it was booming way way less than AEW at its lowest period ever did for nothing. Also? "Bad for the WWE" does not mean "bad for WWE fans" or "bad for people who are fans of WWE wrestlers." It kinda means the opposite. The same is true for AEW! I'm certainly not someone who believes Healthy Capitalist Competition Cures Everything, but in this particular case, more viable options leads to more flexibility for employees, and more power in negotiating. It even trickles down to the people who aren't on the top. Tony just rehired someone this week because the initial firing undercut his attempt to paint AEW as less soulless than the WWE (and therefore a better place to work and better show to watch). I don't think he's entirely cynical there, but it's certainly ALSO marketing.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Apr 6, 2024 16:38:26 GMT -5
AEW does not need to outsell WWE to do scare WWE. Frankly, they don't even need to inhibit WWE doing well to scare WWE. When the world of pro wrestling is WWE and then beneath it a bunch of local nobodies running bingo halls, WWE's won. When pro wrestling has another company packing Wembley, doing top ratings on cable their night, making competitive moves for top talent, and holding steady, that's a big problem for WWE. It drives up the cost of contracts, forces them to entice talent over, challenges their unilateral pop culture grip on everything about it, and defangs narratives that they are the one and only. Triple H learned the business side of this under Vince and he's proven to have a very similar approach in terms of end goal. I swear I remember hearing somewhere that some years back, the like really introductory classes at the PC badmouthed the indies and tried to make them seem really terrible and awful, to basically scare people into not trying to do them if WWE cut them and just leave the business instead. There's a reason for that. Triple H didn't try to hamper ROH when it was booming way way less than AEW at its lowest period ever did for nothing. Also? "Bad for the WWE" does not mean "bad for WWE fans" or "bad for people who are fans of WWE wrestlers." It kinda means the opposite. The same is true for AEW! I'm certainly not someone who believes Healthy Capitalist Competition Cures Everything, but in this particular case, more viable options leads to more flexibility for employees, and more power in negotiating. It even trickles down to the people who aren't on the top. Tony just rehired someone this week because the initial firing undercut his attempt to paint AEW as less soulless than the WWE (and therefore a better place to work and better show to watch). I don't think he's entirely cynical there, but it's certainly ALSO marketing. Competition isn't a magical cure-all, but a virtual monopoly is worse. We've seen that. WWE management are the only people who actually lose by having AEW as a strong second, and f*** WWE management. The fans and the wrestlers are going to benefit from a business less monolithically controlled by one big name that's gotten complacent from being able to throw its weight and money around to get its way dating back to the '70s.
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Kalmia
King Koopa
Happy to be here
Posts: 11,718
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Post by Kalmia on Apr 6, 2024 16:45:41 GMT -5
People acting like HHH doesn't sweat AEW are hilarious. I will say what I always say, I'm fine with both sides taking fun shots at each other. But I do laugh how when people (rightly) criticize TK for how he handles media they tend to prop Triple H up when he's shown to be... not very good at that aspect as well. Triple H is worse at it, he just has the sense to stay off Twitter. So maybe that means he's better at it? Haha
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KME
Team Rocket
Posts: 798
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Post by KME on Apr 6, 2024 16:52:53 GMT -5
Some great shouts in the last few posts. Trips being as as petulant as TK is definitely one that goes under the radar. Tony's social media antics can be very cringe and he speaks in a way you wouldn't expect from someone in his position but you often see people saying "HHH would never do this", despite the fact he regularly takes little pot shots himself, many that make him sound hugely insecure, he just does it in amongst lots of corporate speak and with a smile on his face and away from social media.
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