lucas_lee
Hank Scorpio
Heel turn is finished, now stripping away my personality
Posts: 6,769
|
Post by lucas_lee on May 3, 2024 8:48:26 GMT -5
What I take from this is that the NBA isn’t a draw at all anymore on TV…even though I know it’s huge for in person attendance and on social media It’s a bad TV product, besides Inside the NBA, but the league has so much drama that it’ll never die. You have to remember that there's digital packages to watch NBA games now that isn't measured. I think sports across the board suffer from those kind of ratings.
|
|
|
Post by Denny Zen is Cooking™ on May 3, 2024 9:50:40 GMT -5
Advertisers are happy, that's all that matters. AEW just needs to concentrate on attendance and merch and all will be peachy. The average ratings are 20% lower than in 2023 and 35% lower than in 2022. I don't think that makes them very happy. It's worrying that 700,000 viewers is the new normality. None of us have any clue whether advertisers are "happy" or not. If we are to believe the information that we are provided then I think it's likely that the advertisers are content with AEW, given that it remains a consistent Top 10 weekly program on cable, regardless of the fact that 10-15 Nielsen homes that were watching live last year apparently aren't watching live this year. It's important to remember the context that cable television as a whole is in a steep decline, and AEW's year-over-year "viewership drops" are not outpacing the average by much, if at all. ( For Example) AEW provides a high-floor, loyal, consistent weekly live audience and produces content 52 weeks a year. I am not in the TV industry, but I am very confident in saying that that's appealing, regardless of if the viewership ceiling is a little lower than some less niche properties. WWE is out ahead of the issue, as it usually is, by moving to Netflix. I , for one, cannot wait until we start to get the discourse of WWE reporting that it had "5,000,000 streams for Monday Night RAW in a week" and that being compared to AEW's 650,000 weekly Nielsen live cable rating, or whatever it'll be by 2026 as the great cord cut progresses and more and more people move to watching AEW content on Fite/Triller, etc... It's going to be awesome.
|
|
Zone Was Wrong
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Currently living off the high that AEW brings every Wednesday and Friday
Posts: 16,377
|
Post by Zone Was Wrong on May 3, 2024 10:08:23 GMT -5
I think we also forget that the night 1 ratings are just the tip of the iceberg as well. What we see here doesn't count in rewatches or on-demand watches as well. Going by TBS/TNT, the numbers for weekly views are in the million(s). So while live ratings are down, relatively, that isn't the full picture.
|
|
|
Post by polarbearpete on May 3, 2024 10:19:33 GMT -5
"I THOUGHT THE ATTACK WOULD POP A BIGGER RATING THOUGH" They're third and sixth on Cable, they're still going up against Playoffs in two different sports which are the only things ahead of them, and they're still delivering despite that I mean people can worry all they want, every single Warner response is "We're loving this " and until it isn't, nothing's going to happen to the show and they're just gonna keep carrying on with their product and putting on what has been a very solid show lately. Thinking the angle would garner a bigger rating and thinking the company will be fine either way are two separate thoughts that aren’t mutually exclusive.
|
|
|
Post by Denny Zen is Cooking™ on May 3, 2024 10:23:19 GMT -5
I think we also forget that the night 1 ratings are just the tip of the iceberg as well. What we see here doesn't count in rewatches or on-demand watches as well. Going by TBS/TNT, the numbers for weekly views are in the million(s). So while live ratings are down, relatively, that isn't the full picture. Professional wrestling is truly the only industry I can think of where a huge swath of the fanbase is still clinging to Nielsen live TV viewership estimates as the sole metric for how successful a program is. Much less this completely arbitrary notion that "a million" viewers is the benchmark for success. There aren't very many non-sports, non-news, cable television shows that break a million these days. This is an aggregation of every single show currently on weekly television, network, cable, or otherwise. Is Vanderpump Rules a failure because its average weekly rating is below a million now?
|
|
|
Post by Malibu Albino on May 3, 2024 10:30:15 GMT -5
It’s so funny that we’re gonna concern troll about the advertisers when the biggest clue to the advertisers thoughts on AEW is how WBD treats them. Zaslav and his crew are dumb, but they’re not so dumb as to keep touting a program that their advertisers dislike. If you need an example, take a look at how quickly Power Slap came and went.
Also, let’s be real here. If AEW had advertiser problems we’d have already heard about it in 15 separate reports.
|
|
|
Post by polarbearpete on May 3, 2024 10:32:10 GMT -5
The average ratings are 20% lower than in 2023 and 35% lower than in 2022. I don't think that makes them very happy. It's worrying that 700,000 viewers is the new normality. None of us have any clue whether advertisers are "happy" or not. If we are to believe the information that we are provided then I think it's likely that the advertisers are content with AEW, given that it remains a consistent Top 10 weekly program on cable, regardless of the fact that 10-15 Nielsen homes that were watching live last year apparently aren't watching live this year. It's important to remember the context that cable television as a whole is in a steep decline, and AEW's year-over-year "viewership drops" are not outpacing the average by much, if at all. ( For Example) AEW provides a high-floor, loyal, consistent weekly live audience and produces content 52 weeks a year. I am not in the TV industry, but I am very confident in saying that that's appealing, regardless of if the viewership ceiling is a little lower than some less niche properties. WWE is out ahead of the issue, as it usually is, by moving to Netflix. I , for one, cannot wait until we start to get the discourse of WWE reporting that it had "5,000,000 streams for Monday Night RAW in a week" and that being compared to AEW's 650,000 weekly Nielsen live cable rating, or whatever it'll be by 2026 as the great cord cut progresses and more and more people move to watching AEW content on Fite/Triller, etc... It's going to be awesome. Someone on the Observer boards keeps track of the shows’ demos as compared to last year and as compared to the overall decline in ratings of the cable networks they’re on. TBS, TNT and USA are down an average of 6%. Over the last 8 weeks (as compared to the same 8-week period last year), Raw is up 2%, Smackdown is up 8% and Dynamite is down 12%.
|
|
|
Post by polarbearpete on May 3, 2024 10:35:44 GMT -5
It’s so funny that we’re gonna concern troll about the advertisers when the biggest clue to the advertisers thoughts on AEW is how WBD treats them. Zaslav and his crew are dumb, but they’re not so dumb as to keep touting a program that their advertisers dislike. If you need an example, take a look at how quickly Power Slap came and went. Also, let’s be real here. If AEW had advertiser problems we’d have already heard about it in 15 separate reports. Yeah I doubt they’re having huge advertising problems (outside of the usual problems with lower ad rates for wrestling shows than other shows). I don’t think the issue is WBD not wanting to renew AEW, the only issue becomes how much of an increase WBD is going to be willing to give AEW, given where the ratings are at versus where they used to be. The NBA deal may also have a big impact on that calculation.
|
|
|
Post by Denny Zen is Cooking™ on May 3, 2024 10:43:40 GMT -5
None of us have any clue whether advertisers are "happy" or not. If we are to believe the information that we are provided then I think it's likely that the advertisers are content with AEW, given that it remains a consistent Top 10 weekly program on cable, regardless of the fact that 10-15 Nielsen homes that were watching live last year apparently aren't watching live this year. It's important to remember the context that cable television as a whole is in a steep decline, and AEW's year-over-year "viewership drops" are not outpacing the average by much, if at all. ( For Example) AEW provides a high-floor, loyal, consistent weekly live audience and produces content 52 weeks a year. I am not in the TV industry, but I am very confident in saying that that's appealing, regardless of if the viewership ceiling is a little lower than some less niche properties. WWE is out ahead of the issue, as it usually is, by moving to Netflix. I , for one, cannot wait until we start to get the discourse of WWE reporting that it had "5,000,000 streams for Monday Night RAW in a week" and that being compared to AEW's 650,000 weekly Nielsen live cable rating, or whatever it'll be by 2026 as the great cord cut progresses and more and more people move to watching AEW content on Fite/Triller, etc... It's going to be awesome. Someone on the Observer boards keeps track of the shows’ demos as compared to last year and as compared to the overall decline in ratings of the cable networks they’re on. TBS, TNT and USA are down an average of 6%. Over the last 8 weeks (as compared to the same 8-week period last year), Raw is up 2%, Smackdown is up 8% and Dynamite is down 12%. That's more or less my point. TBS and TNT's viewership, as a whole, is down in the 6-8% range and AEW's viewership is down 12%. It's not outpacing the average much. I would hazard a guess that, but for TBS/TNT having March Madness and the NBA, AEW's viewership drop would be less severe than TBS and TNT at large. WWE is cooking™ and in an especially hot period which, at least partially, likely accounts for a decent percentage of former AEW live viewers who aren't watching live anymore. None of this means the sky is falling for AEW. I'm not sure any of it means much of anything at all beyond AEW being 5 years old now and the honeymoon period being long gone. The Monday Night Wars were a fun time to be a wrestling fan for those who lived it and are this halcyon representation of a bygone era when wrestling was "cool" for people who are too young to have lived it, so a lot of wrestling fans love to hyper-scrutinize live TV viewership data that is becoming more and more antiquated by the day. Especially right now when dunking on AEW is free Reddit karma.
|
|
|
Post by polarbearpete on May 3, 2024 10:47:13 GMT -5
Someone on the Observer boards keeps track of the shows’ demos as compared to last year and as compared to the overall decline in ratings of the cable networks they’re on. TBS, TNT and USA are down an average of 6%. Over the last 8 weeks (as compared to the same 8-week period last year), Raw is up 2%, Smackdown is up 8% and Dynamite is down 12%. That's more or less my point. TBS and TNT's viewership, as a whole, is down in the 6-8% range and AEW's viewership is down 12%. It's not outpacing the average much. I would hazard a guess that, but for TBS/TNT having March Madness and the NBA, AEW's viewership drop would be less severe than TBS and TNT at large. WWE is cooking™ and in an especially hot period which, at least partially, likely accounts for a decent percentage of former AEW live viewers who aren't watching live anymore. None of this means the sky is falling for AEW. I'm not sure any of it means much of anything at all beyond AEW being 5 years old now and the honeymoon period being long gone. The Monday Night Wars were a fun time to be a wrestling fan for those who lived it and are this halcyon representation of a bygone era when wrestling was "cool" for people who are too young to have lived it, so a lot of wrestling fans love to hyper-scrutinize live TV viewership data that is becoming more and more antiquated by the day. Especially right now when dunking on AEW is free Reddit karma. I think the live TV viewership data is still very important, as those numbers are still what is being used to determine ad rates, carriage fees, and ultimately being used by the networks to determine how much to pay in rights’ fees. Now if you’re transitioning to streaming only like Raw is, then obviously those numbers become less important than just viewership numbers in general.
|
|
Zone Was Wrong
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Currently living off the high that AEW brings every Wednesday and Friday
Posts: 16,377
|
Post by Zone Was Wrong on May 3, 2024 10:53:55 GMT -5
I REALLY cannot wait for the next rights deal goes through so we can maybe forego the shaking of the magic 8 ball to see if the network is happy with AEW right now.
|
|
|
Post by Denny Zen is Cooking™ on May 3, 2024 10:56:27 GMT -5
That's more or less my point. TBS and TNT's viewership, as a whole, is down in the 6-8% range and AEW's viewership is down 12%. It's not outpacing the average much. I would hazard a guess that, but for TBS/TNT having March Madness and the NBA, AEW's viewership drop would be less severe than TBS and TNT at large. WWE is cooking™ and in an especially hot period which, at least partially, likely accounts for a decent percentage of former AEW live viewers who aren't watching live anymore. None of this means the sky is falling for AEW. I'm not sure any of it means much of anything at all beyond AEW being 5 years old now and the honeymoon period being long gone. The Monday Night Wars were a fun time to be a wrestling fan for those who lived it and are this halcyon representation of a bygone era when wrestling was "cool" for people who are too young to have lived it, so a lot of wrestling fans love to hyper-scrutinize live TV viewership data that is becoming more and more antiquated by the day. Especially right now when dunking on AEW is free Reddit karma. I think the live TV viewership data is still very important, as those numbers are still what is being used to determine ad rates, carriage fees, and ultimately being used by the networks to determine how much to pay in rights’ fees. I don't disagree that live TV viewership data relative to other live TV viewership data is one of many important factors in rights negotiation. I just think that some of the things that are being bandied about right now are ill-informed at best and outright disingenuous at worst. The notion of "oh, wow, advertisers can't possibly be happy because 700,000 is the new normal for AEW, this is the beginning of the end" or "AEW is a bush league failure because it can't get anything close to a million anymore," for example. Precious few cable TV properties even get "a million" anymore, and AEW has the advantage of producing 52 weeks' worth of live TV per year. I may well end up being proven wrong, but I suspect that AEW is going to do alright in this forthcoming TV deal.
|
|
|
Post by CeilingFan on May 3, 2024 11:00:53 GMT -5
I REALLY cannot wait for the next rights deal goes through so we can maybe forego the shaking of the magic 8 ball to see if the network is happy with AEW right now. I hope it is a 5-year deal.
|
|
|
Post by polarbearpete on May 3, 2024 11:28:28 GMT -5
I think the live TV viewership data is still very important, as those numbers are still what is being used to determine ad rates, carriage fees, and ultimately being used by the networks to determine how much to pay in rights’ fees. I don't disagree that live TV viewership data relative to other live TV viewership data is one of many important factors in rights negotiation. I just think that some of the things that are being bandied about right now are ill-informed at best and outright disingenuous at worst. The notion of "oh, wow, advertisers can't possibly be happy because 700,000 is the new normal for AEW, this is the beginning of the end" or "AEW is a bush league failure because it can't get anything close to a million anymore," for example. Precious few cable TV properties even get "a million" anymore, and AEW has the advantage of producing 52 weeks' worth of live TV per year. I may well end up being proven wrong, but I suspect that AEW is going to do alright in this forthcoming TV deal. Of course they’ll do alright, it’s just a matter of how much of an increase they get. I imagine it’ll be a huge deal streaming rights included and could approach the billion dollar mark over 5 years if streaming and PPV are included. I don’t really see any reasonable places for discussion saying things like “this is the beginning of the end” or they are a “bush league failure.” Sounds like YouTube and reddit comments (or crazy X accounts).
|
|
|
Post by Denny Zen is Cooking™ on May 3, 2024 11:54:31 GMT -5
I don't disagree that live TV viewership data relative to other live TV viewership data is one of many important factors in rights negotiation. I just think that some of the things that are being bandied about right now are ill-informed at best and outright disingenuous at worst. The notion of "oh, wow, advertisers can't possibly be happy because 700,000 is the new normal for AEW, this is the beginning of the end" or "AEW is a bush league failure because it can't get anything close to a million anymore," for example. Precious few cable TV properties even get "a million" anymore, and AEW has the advantage of producing 52 weeks' worth of live TV per year. I may well end up being proven wrong, but I suspect that AEW is going to do alright in this forthcoming TV deal. Of course they’ll do alright, it’s just a matter of how much of an increase they get. I imagine it’ll be a huge deal streaming rights included and could approach the billion dollar mark over 5 years if streaming and PPV are included. I don’t really see any reasonable places for discussion saying things like “this is the beginning of the end” or they are a “bush league failure.” Sounds like YouTube and reddit comments (or crazy X accounts). I mean, go look at the comments on any given AEW post anywhere on social media (be it, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, or YouTube), the general state of r/squaredcircle right now, much less the seedier parts of Reddit like r/rasslin or r/scjerk. They may not be the most "reasonable" places for discussion, but they are the largest, and, far and away, the most indicative of the overall state of the wrestling fanbase right now. I won't link to Reddit, but almost everywhere else on the internet the discussion is along the lines of: "I’m worried about AEW losing the WBD deal, not because I’m a big fan of AEW, but because competition is good for the fans and the wrestlers. They really need to see the ratings are falling off a cliff year over year and hire a better booker maybe a writer or two, because what they have going now isn’t working. If they lose WBD I’m sure a lesser network would take them for less money but it would prob only further hurt viewership. How does AEW fix this?" And any comment even approaching the tone of my comments on this board would be met with downvotes into oblivion. In the IWC at-large right now, if your opinion on AEW is anything other than something like the below, and you don't accept at face value that WWE is an objectively better product now, then you are considered to be ignorant, willfully oblivious, or worse: "We need to just start saying it loudly and clearly. Tony Khan is not a good booker. Plain and simple. He needs people in that company running the show and booking creative. He can be the boss and all of that but he needs people other than him and his notebook putting the shows together. And I'm sorry but trying to do NWO meets Austin vs McMahon is not going to entice people in 2024." And then people act all put upon that "AEW fans" are so "tribalistic." Like, good lord, it's fake fighting not a presidential election.
|
|
markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 18,578
Member is Online
|
Post by markymark on May 3, 2024 12:23:32 GMT -5
Saw someone on Twitter say 703 is what happens when you let the rating killer Bucks run the show..while neglecting its up from last week. I’m literally finished with this discussion now. Still say Edge Vs Buddy was way too f***ing long and it’s gonna hurt next week
Open the show next week with OC and Trent, match wise at least it will be miles better than Cope and Buddy.
|
|
|
Post by polarbearpete on May 3, 2024 12:26:30 GMT -5
Of course they’ll do alright, it’s just a matter of how much of an increase they get. I imagine it’ll be a huge deal streaming rights included and could approach the billion dollar mark over 5 years if streaming and PPV are included. I don’t really see any reasonable places for discussion saying things like “this is the beginning of the end” or they are a “bush league failure.” Sounds like YouTube and reddit comments (or crazy X accounts). I mean, go look at the comments on any given AEW post anywhere on social media (be it, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, or YouTube), the general state of r/squaredcircle right now, much less the seedier parts of Reddit like r/rasslin or r/scjerk. They may not be the most "reasonable" places for discussion, but they are the largest, and, far and away, the most indicative of the overall state of the wrestling fanbase right now. I won't link to Reddit, but almost everywhere else on the internet the discussion is along the lines of: "I’m worried about AEW losing the WBD deal, not because I’m a big fan of AEW, but because competition is good for the fans and the wrestlers. They really need to see the ratings are falling off a cliff year over year and hire a better booker maybe a writer or two, because what they have going now isn’t working. If they lose WBD I’m sure a lesser network would take them for less money but it would prob only further hurt viewership. How does AEW fix this?" And any comment even approaching the tone of my comments on this board would be met with downvotes into oblivion. In the IWC at-large right now, if your opinion on AEW is anything other than something like the below, and you don't accept at face value that WWE is an objectively better product now, then you are considered to be ignorant, willfully oblivious, or worse: "We need to just start saying it loudly and clearly. Tony Khan is not a good booker. Plain and simple. He needs people in that company running the show and booking creative. He can be the boss and all of that but he needs people other than him and his notebook putting the shows together. And I'm sorry but trying to do NWO meets Austin vs McMahon is not going to entice people in 2024." And then people act all put upon that "AEW fans" are so "tribalistic." Like, good lord, it's fake fighting not a presidential election. I’m pretty sure the number of people engaging in that type of discussion would be less than 1% of the total population that watches AEW, so it becomes a bit of an echo chamber when that small group of people has a certain view of the company. And then the more you view and engage with those types of posts, the more you’re going to see them on your curated social media pages.
|
|
|
Post by Denny Zen is Cooking™ on May 3, 2024 12:35:52 GMT -5
I mean, go look at the comments on any given AEW post anywhere on social media (be it, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, or YouTube), the general state of r/squaredcircle right now, much less the seedier parts of Reddit like r/rasslin or r/scjerk. They may not be the most "reasonable" places for discussion, but they are the largest, and, far and away, the most indicative of the overall state of the wrestling fanbase right now. I won't link to Reddit, but almost everywhere else on the internet the discussion is along the lines of: "I’m worried about AEW losing the WBD deal, not because I’m a big fan of AEW, but because competition is good for the fans and the wrestlers. They really need to see the ratings are falling off a cliff year over year and hire a better booker maybe a writer or two, because what they have going now isn’t working. If they lose WBD I’m sure a lesser network would take them for less money but it would prob only further hurt viewership. How does AEW fix this?" And any comment even approaching the tone of my comments on this board would be met with downvotes into oblivion. In the IWC at-large right now, if your opinion on AEW is anything other than something like the below, and you don't accept at face value that WWE is an objectively better product now, then you are considered to be ignorant, willfully oblivious, or worse: "We need to just start saying it loudly and clearly. Tony Khan is not a good booker. Plain and simple. He needs people in that company running the show and booking creative. He can be the boss and all of that but he needs people other than him and his notebook putting the shows together. And I'm sorry but trying to do NWO meets Austin vs McMahon is not going to entice people in 2024." And then people act all put upon that "AEW fans" are so "tribalistic." Like, good lord, it's fake fighting not a presidential election. I’m pretty sure the number of people engaging in that type of discussion would be less than 1% of the total population that watches AEW, so it becomes a bit of an echo chamber when that small group of people has a certain view of the company. And then the more you view and engage with those types of posts, the more you’re going to see them on your curated social media pages. I don't know, I don't actively engage with anything on any social media forum that has my real name. I think that there has objectively been a groundswell of anti-AEW sentiment across the internet to an extent that "Tony Khan is a terrible booker" is the default position and pushing back against that causes you to either be viewed as an "AEW shill" or to be assumed that you're only playing devil's advocate.
|
|
|
Post by stan1337 on May 3, 2024 12:44:26 GMT -5
I’m pretty sure the number of people engaging in that type of discussion would be less than 1% of the total population that watches AEW, so it becomes a bit of an echo chamber when that small group of people has a certain view of the company. And then the more you view and engage with those types of posts, the more you’re going to see them on your curated social media pages. I don't know, I don't actively engage with anything on any social media forum that has my real name. I think that there has objectively been a groundswell of anti-AEW sentiment across the internet to an extent that "Tony Khan is a terrible booker" is the default position and pushing back against that causes you to either be viewed as an "AEW shill" or to be assumed that you're only playing devil's advocate. I feel this sentiment. My wife is in random AEW/wrestling meme groups, not serious stuff by any means, and they have had to ban longtime members that just couldn't stop their obsession with AEW and AEW fans being shut down. I usually always lurk if it is an option. The things I view are not influenced by me clicking on reddit posts because 1. I stopped going to Reddit when the API stuff happened. 2. I don't use my Twitter account anymore. I got in on it in 2007 and bored of it by 2012. 3. I only post my son's school fundraisers on FB. It's not the algorithm. The raw amount of AEW hate content has increased and the tone toward AEW fans who actually enjoy the product is the most unfriendly and toxic I have seen since I started watching in 2022.
|
|
XIII
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 18,614
|
Post by XIII on May 3, 2024 12:50:43 GMT -5
The viewers must have REALLY hated the last three segments. GODDAMN that’s a drop.
|
|