Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,185
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Post by Mecca on May 13, 2024 14:41:14 GMT -5
I mean, it depends. If there are only five matches, but they're all huge, unforgettable bangers, I don't think anyone would complain. Case in point was Canadian Stampede, which only had 4 (not counting the pre-show), but is still considered one of their best historic events. 6 should be the target though, for non-Big 4. Mania can do 7 and 7 over 2 nights, and Summerslam can have a bit more as well. Wasn't Canadian Stampede a 3 hour show though? If you are going to run for 4 hours, you really need more than 5 matches. But of course they have all the filler business in there too.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on May 13, 2024 17:51:06 GMT -5
I’m pretty okay with how EC, Mania Night 2 and Backlash were pace. I wouldn’t argue with one more match, but honestly if they wanna run 5 matches and keep PLEms to a nice, tight, 2:45 I’m totally cool with it
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Post by King Devitt and the Woke Mob on May 13, 2024 21:15:14 GMT -5
People: Jade needs longer matches to learn and get comfortable doing them Also People: No, not like that
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Post by ben:friendship frog on May 13, 2024 22:10:12 GMT -5
I didn't think I'd like the smaller cards but I really have. I think it helps the matches breathe, and it's all wrapped up in 3 hours.
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Post by yokohamacpfc on May 14, 2024 4:47:57 GMT -5
Yes, it's easily doable by cutting down on entrances and recaps rather than cutting match times. I appreciate they are unlikely to cut external sponsorship/shilling time for financial reasons (although it would be nice) but they don't have to advertise their t-shirts or whatever WWE app/game they are shilling during the PPV coz you can do that during Raw which the target audience would be watching as well.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on May 14, 2024 6:59:29 GMT -5
Yes, it's easily doable by cutting down on entrances and recaps rather than cutting match times. I appreciate they are unlikely to cut external sponsorship/shilling time for financial reasons (although it would be nice) but they don't have to advertise their t-shirts or whatever WWE app/game they are shilling during the PPV coz you can do that during Raw which the target audience would be watching as well. The PLE's are formatted with built in ad breaks for Peacock Ad Supported Tier, otherwise you'd have Peacock picking when the ads get inserted and that's not a good thing. If they weren't using that time on the Ad Free Tier for their own ads and character hype videos we'd be getting a black screen instead because they can't just skip the ad breaks. And that won't be changing when they move to Netflix either
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BRV
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants him some Taco Flavored Kisses.
Posts: 17,382
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Post by BRV on May 14, 2024 8:44:45 GMT -5
Case in point was Canadian Stampede, which only had 4 (not counting the pre-show), but is still considered one of their best historic events. 6 should be the target though, for non-Big 4. Mania can do 7 and 7 over 2 nights, and Summerslam can have a bit more as well. Wasn't Canadian Stampede a 3 hour show though?If you are going to run for 4 hours, you really need more than 5 matches. But of course they have all the filler business in there too. It was a two-hour show (in fact, it was the last of the two-hour In Your House events that WWF would run). If WWE wants to condense its PLEs to four or five matches, they should also condense the show's run time to two hours or 2 hours and 30 minutes. Make it a tightly-run show rather than forcing matches to be significantly longer than they warrant. Otherwise, you get matches that get entirely too much air time and overstaying their welcome (the women's tag at Backlash France getting 17:25, the tag title match at Elimination Chamber Perth getting 17:25, Seth vs. Shinsuke at Payback getting 26:05, Rhea vs. Raquel at Payback getting 17:20).
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Post by polarbearpete on May 14, 2024 9:43:22 GMT -5
Case in point was Canadian Stampede, which only had 4 (not counting the pre-show), but is still considered one of their best historic events. 6 should be the target though, for non-Big 4. Mania can do 7 and 7 over 2 nights, and Summerslam can have a bit more as well. Wasn't Canadian Stampede a 3 hour show though? If you are going to run for 4 hours, you really need more than 5 matches. But of course they have all the filler business in there too. WWE’s B PPVs are 3 hours long.
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Post by Hulk With A Mustache on May 14, 2024 12:05:35 GMT -5
Wasn't Canadian Stampede a 3 hour show though? If you are going to run for 4 hours, you really need more than 5 matches. But of course they have all the filler business in there too. WWE’s B PPVs are 3 hours long. But that only began after Canadian Stampede. For the first few years, In Your House PPVs were just two hours. They started making them 3 hours later in 1997 with Ground Zero.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on May 14, 2024 12:10:28 GMT -5
The fact paid shows are being timed and paced around the idea of having to show ads to the free tier and therefore paying people still get ads they're just native built-in ads instead of app ads sucks just conceptually. That it means PPVs get paced out around having to have these off segments, reducing room for matches and adding more puff segments and non-match parts that are just there to be there, is a big piece of why WWE PPVs just do not do it for me.
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Post by polarbearpete on May 14, 2024 12:21:48 GMT -5
WWE’s B PPVs are 3 hours long. But that only began after Canadian Stampede. For the first few years, In Your House PPVs were just two hours. They started making them 3 hours later in 1997 with Ground Zero. I was responding to his point that you need more than 5 matches for a 4 hour PPV.
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Post by polarbearpete on May 14, 2024 12:22:59 GMT -5
The fact paid shows are being timed and paced around the idea of having to show ads to the free tier and therefore paying people still get ads they're just native built-in ads instead of app ads sucks just conceptually. That it means PPVs get paced out around having to have these off segments, reducing room for matches and adding more puff segments and non-match parts that are just there to be there, is a big piece of why WWE PPVs just do not do it for me. The paid tier of Peacock means you get to see the promo video packages before each match that have almost always been a part of PPV broadcasts. I think that’s the only difference for the lower tier, you get ads in place of the promo packages.
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BRV
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants him some Taco Flavored Kisses.
Posts: 17,382
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Post by BRV on May 14, 2024 12:36:09 GMT -5
The fact paid shows are being timed and paced around the idea of having to show ads to the free tier and therefore paying people still get ads they're just native built-in ads instead of app ads sucks just conceptually. That it means PPVs get paced out around having to have these off segments, reducing room for matches and adding more puff segments and non-match parts that are just there to be there, is a big piece of why WWE PPVs just do not do it for me. The paid tier of Peacock means you get to see the promo video packages before each match that have almost always been a part of PPV broadcasts. I think that’s the only difference for the lower tier, you get ads in place of the promo packages. And even then, it accounts for maybe 10 minutes total over a four-hour show. That's the time to get up from your couch, stretch your legs, use the restroom, grab a beverage, or make a snack. I don't look at the PLE "ad breaks" as a major inconvenience that takes away from my enjoyment of the wrestling program.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on May 14, 2024 12:45:47 GMT -5
The fact paid shows are being timed and paced around the idea of having to show ads to the free tier and therefore paying people still get ads they're just native built-in ads instead of app ads sucks just conceptually. That it means PPVs get paced out around having to have these off segments, reducing room for matches and adding more puff segments and non-match parts that are just there to be there, is a big piece of why WWE PPVs just do not do it for me. The paid tier of Peacock means you get to see the promo video packages before each match that have almost always been a part of PPV broadcasts. I think that’s the only difference for the lower tier, you get ads in place of the promo packages. It feels like there've been way more native advertising/brand deal kind of things and bumper segments to fill out the time, so if those aren't even the time they run Peacock commercials and the free tier people get the ad bumpers and then Peacock ads over hype videos, then that's. Wow damn that's worse actually that's insane.
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Post by polarbearpete on May 14, 2024 13:17:28 GMT -5
The paid tier of Peacock means you get to see the promo video packages before each match that have almost always been a part of PPV broadcasts. I think that’s the only difference for the lower tier, you get ads in place of the promo packages. It feels like there've been way more native advertising/brand deal kind of things and bumper segments to fill out the time, so if those aren't even the time they run Peacock commercials and the free tier people get the ad bumpers and then Peacock ads over hype videos, then that's. Wow damn that's worse actually that's insane. They’ve added more commercials featuring WWE talent between matches yes. Maybe 30 seconds to a minute between each match.
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 42,388
Member is Online
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on May 14, 2024 18:24:13 GMT -5
I think 8 is a solid number. You get things like Rumble or WarGames, you know going in you’re in for a long couple of matches. You see a 5 match card on a regular PPV, you know there’s either gonna be tons of nothing or they’re gonna force “epic” matches into places they don’t need to be.
I think Bret/Shawn at Mania, had it just happened to go an hour, rather than be booked that way, the people who hate it would enjoy it more.
8 seems like you get can get a long main event, mid card goes 12-15 each and maybe a 18 minute opener. That’s about right.
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4real
Wade Wilson
Posts: 28,702
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Post by 4real on May 16, 2024 7:45:43 GMT -5
I didn't think I'd like the smaller cards but I really have. I think it helps the matches breathe, and it's all wrapped up in 3 hours. Also gives me a chance to go to the toilet or get food without feeling like I’m trying out as an Olympic sprinter. It’s about quality over quantity imo. Simple as that. A card with only 5 matches might not seem attractive but it’s what happens on the night that counts.
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Post by HMARK Center on May 16, 2024 8:27:53 GMT -5
Wasn't Canadian Stampede a 3 hour show though?If you are going to run for 4 hours, you really need more than 5 matches. But of course they have all the filler business in there too. It was a two-hour show (in fact, it was the last of the two-hour In Your House events that WWF would run). If WWE wants to condense its PLEs to four or five matches, they should also condense the show's run time to two hours or 2 hours and 30 minutes. Make it a tightly-run show rather than forcing matches to be significantly longer than they warrant. Otherwise, you get matches that get entirely too much air time and overstaying their welcome (the women's tag at Backlash France getting 17:25, the tag title match at Elimination Chamber Perth getting 17:25, Seth vs. Shinsuke at Payback getting 26:05, Rhea vs. Raquel at Payback getting 17:20). That's a big one; after many, many years of ROH and NJPW shows, I can't bring myself to sit through a PPV-style show where the pacing is so drawn out and there's so much time in between matches. I'm fine with a hype video before some matches, but holy shit I just want them to get to the fireworks factory, and WWE's kind of designed around stretching out the amount of time it takes to get from the end of one match to the next. Go ahead and have longer matches, that's great (most of the time), but I can't deal with the slow pacing. The other issue with having cards with so few matches is more for people buying tickets to the show; personally speaking, I wouldn't want to drop a considerable amount to attend live if I knew I was only getting five matches, especially if it's five stretched over too many hours. Clearly a lot of people are ok with that in the last couple of years, but it's not for me.
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Post by polarbearpete on May 16, 2024 8:42:56 GMT -5
It was a two-hour show (in fact, it was the last of the two-hour In Your House events that WWF would run). If WWE wants to condense its PLEs to four or five matches, they should also condense the show's run time to two hours or 2 hours and 30 minutes. Make it a tightly-run show rather than forcing matches to be significantly longer than they warrant. Otherwise, you get matches that get entirely too much air time and overstaying their welcome (the women's tag at Backlash France getting 17:25, the tag title match at Elimination Chamber Perth getting 17:25, Seth vs. Shinsuke at Payback getting 26:05, Rhea vs. Raquel at Payback getting 17:20). That's a big one; after many, many years of ROH and NJPW shows, I can't bring myself to sit through a PPV-style show where the pacing is so drawn out and there's so much time in between matches. I'm fine with a hype video before some matches, but holy shit I just want them to get to the fireworks factory, and WWE's kind of designed around stretching out the amount of time it takes to get from the end of one match to the next. Go ahead and have longer matches, that's great (most of the time), but I can't deal with the slow pacing. The other issue with having cards with so few matches is more for people buying tickets to the show; personally speaking, I wouldn't want to drop a considerable amount to attend live if I knew I was only getting five matches, especially if it's five stretched over too many hours. Clearly a lot of people are ok with that in the last couple of years, but it's not for me. The live event aspect of it makes a lot of sense as being an issue as I would want to see most of the top stars if I bought a ticket. As a TV viewer, though, I much prefer the shorter cards and shows they’ve been doing rather than trying to cram everyone on each show every month. It’s also led to a lot more blowoffs to feuds getting a weekly TV main event spot, which in turn makes the weekly shows better too (such as Gunther vs. Gable main eventing Raw, ditto Gunther vs. Jey).
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BRV
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants him some Taco Flavored Kisses.
Posts: 17,382
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Post by BRV on May 16, 2024 8:58:22 GMT -5
The other issue with having cards with so few matches is more for people buying tickets to the show; personally speaking, I wouldn't want to drop a considerable amount to attend live if I knew I was only getting five matches, especially if it's five stretched over too many hours. Clearly a lot of people are ok with that in the last couple of years, but it's not for me. I went to this year's Royal Rumble and for a four-match card, I had no issues with the product that was presented to us as fans. Granted, a lot of that is attributable to half of the matches on the card being Royal Rumble matches, which - especially in person - absolutely fly by for matches that last over an hour. But I was surprised at how many people got up out of their seats to use the restroom, grab a snack from the concession stand, or buy merchandise during the two non-Rumble matches. You could tell that was an audience that had packed Tropicana Field because they were there for the two Rumble matches and the rest of the card was filler.
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