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Post by thechase on May 13, 2024 2:45:53 GMT -5
It's got some great scenes that would all work in three different movies, but it couldn't settle on being just one
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on May 13, 2024 2:51:02 GMT -5
It had it's moments, mainly stuff that Raimi wanted the movie to actually be about. He didn't want Venom, he wanted the movie to be about Harry and Peter's friendship, forgiveness, and letting go of hate.
Adding in Venom overstuffed the movie, and it resulted in what we got. There was some good with Venom, namely the Mr Ditkovich scene and when Peter apologizes.
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Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
Posts: 29,302
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Post by Sephiroth on May 13, 2024 7:33:18 GMT -5
Not really. Still an over-buddy mess of a movie.
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Post by Joker on May 13, 2024 7:40:19 GMT -5
It's sitting there with amazing spider-man 2 for me, some cool moments let down by some terrible story plot points and a tacked on villain (Venom in 3, HarryGoblin in ASM2)
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schma
El Dandy
Who are you to doubt me?
Posts: 7,526
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Post by schma on May 13, 2024 7:49:56 GMT -5
The problem is, there are two good movie in that one bad movie. It tried to do a lot of things and failed at all of them.
Sandman, awesome start, compelling back story. Next time we see him, he's randomly rampaging in New York City because reasons. Then at the end suddenly he's all, I didn't wanna be a bad guy. Well then why the hell were you doing all those terrible things just now and throughout the movie?
Harry gets himself disfigured and then the butler decides, y'know, maybe I should tell him the truth about this vendetta he's been pursuing all these years.
Sam Raimi had no interest in doing Venom and it really showed.
Here's the thing, Spider-man 3 could have been Sandman, wrap up the Harry story and at the end Peter gets the symbiote. Spider-man 4 is dealing with the suit/Venom.
The problem was, no one was committing to a fourth movie, Marvel was pushing for Venom, Raimi wanted Sandman and then there was that dangling Harry plotline.
Sandman in this movie was basically missing several key scenes to see why he would go from a father who just wants to care for his daughter to a supervillain terrorizing the city. Instead he got no development beyond his opening scene.
The movie tried to do too much and was a mess as a result. Emo dancing in the street Peter was just bad. I get that he was supposed to be showing he felt more confident but that, that was just bad.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,950
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Post by Mozenrath on May 13, 2024 8:13:16 GMT -5
You want forgiveness? Get religion.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on May 13, 2024 8:15:21 GMT -5
Nope. Still an enjoyable mess.
The butler reveal is still dumb as shit.
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Post by WoodStoner1 on May 13, 2024 8:52:25 GMT -5
Here's the thing, Spider-man 3 could have been Sandman, wrap up the Harry story and at the end Peter gets the symbiote. Spider-man 4 is dealing with the suit/Venom. THIS. A thousand times over. Kind of like how Green Lantern shouldn't have had and defeated Parallax in one movie. And that's just one thing wrong with that film, of course. TDK Trilogy of all things should have been this too. Defeat Joker in TDK, devote what would be TDK Rises to Two-Face. End the trilogy with what happened at the end of TDK, have viewers assume there'll always be a Gotham where there's a Batman, only he's not everyone's "friend" and it has to be that way to save Harvey Dent's memory and etc. Ambiguous, bittersweet ending seems on brand. Plus Two-Face: too cool to waste on the last half hour of a movie only. I framed out the Raimi timeline thusly: SM3 goes as it goes...mostly. Except somehow the symbiote causes Peter to go over the line with Sandman or Harry, leading to it ending on Peter getting rid of it. Have a Venom tease at the end, and presto! SM4 = Spidey vs. Venom! Maybe Sandy can play the Rhino role from TAS' version of the symbiote story, a big bad that Black Costume Spidey has to go through, for reasons. Still not convinced they should have Joker'ed his origin and made him have a connection with Uncle Ben's death. Harry can be the Shocker, the fight where Spidey realizes he's going too far. Maybe it leads them to reconcile too somehow. And FGS, please give Harry something better than the X-Treme Sports Goblin, er, New Goblin. That was cringe even in the 2000s when X-Treme was still a thing. General Raimi comments: When it was good, it was good. Not all of it holds up perfectly, even the good chapters. It took Andrew Garfield for the live action to get the quipping Spider-Man right, IMO. In Raimi, Peter and Peter's life supplies most of the comedy. If you added a bit of their MCU Proper appearances into the older movies, I'd be a fan of that.
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schma
El Dandy
Who are you to doubt me?
Posts: 7,526
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Post by schma on May 13, 2024 8:58:30 GMT -5
Here's the thing, Spider-man 3 could have been Sandman, wrap up the Harry story and at the end Peter gets the symbiote. Spider-man 4 is dealing with the suit/Venom. THIS. A thousand times over. Kind of like how Green Lantern shouldn't have had and defeated Parallax in one movie. And that's just one thing wrong with that film, of course. TDK Trilogy of all things should have been this too. Defeat Joker in TDK, devote what would be TDK Rises to Two-Face. End the trilogy with what happened at the end of TDK, have viewers assume there'll always be a Gotham where there's a Batman, only he's not everyone's "friend" and it has to be that way to save Harvey Dent's memory and etc. Ambiguous, bittersweet ending seems on brand. Plus Two-Face: too cool to waste on the last half hour of a movie only. I framed out the Raimi timeline thusly: SM3 goes as it goes...mostly. Except somehow the symbiote causes Peter to go over the line with Sandman or Harry, leading to it ending on Peter getting rid of it. Have a Venom tease at the end, and presto! SM4 = Spidey vs. Venom! Maybe Sandy can play the Rhino role from TAS' version of the symbiote story, a big bad that Black Costume Spidey has to go through, for reasons. Still not convinced they should have Joker'ed his origin and made him have a connection with Uncle Ben's death. Harry can be the Shocker, the fight where Spidey realizes he's going too far. Maybe it leads them to reconcile too somehow. And FGS, please give Harry something better than the X-Treme Sports Goblin, er, New Goblin. That was cringe even in the 2000s when X-Treme was still a thing. General Raimi comments: When it was good, it was good. Not all of it holds up perfectly, even the good chapters. It took Andrew Garfield for the live action to get the quipping Spider-Man right, IMO. In Raimi, Peter and Peter's life supplies most of the comedy. If you added a bit of their MCU Proper appearances into the older movies, I'd be a fan of that. Funny enough, in the videogame based on the first Raimi movie there are quips galore.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,801
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Post by Ben Wyatt on May 13, 2024 9:35:33 GMT -5
The problem is, there are two good movie in that one bad movie. It tried to do a lot of things and failed at all of them. Sandman, awesome start, compelling back story. Next time we see him, he's randomly rampaging in New York City because reasons. Then at the end suddenly he's all, I didn't wanna be a bad guy. Well then why the hell were you doing all those terrible things just now and throughout the movie? Harry gets himself disfigured and then the butler decides, y'know, maybe I should tell him the truth about this vendetta he's been pursuing all these years. Sam Raimi had no interest in doing Venom and it really showed. Here's the thing, Spider-man 3 could have been Sandman, wrap up the Harry story and at the end Peter gets the symbiote. Spider-man 4 is dealing with the suit/Venom. The problem was, no one was committing to a fourth movie, Marvel was pushing for Venom, Raimi wanted Sandman and then there was that dangling Harry plotline. Sandman in this movie was basically missing several key scenes to see why he would go from a father who just wants to care for his daughter to a supervillain terrorizing the city. Instead he got no development beyond his opening scene. The movie tried to do too much and was a mess as a result. Emo dancing in the street Peter was just bad. I get that he was supposed to be showing he felt more confident but that, that was just bad. You said pretty much everything I came here to say.
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Soultastic
El Dandy
Only an idiot can be completely happy.
Posts: 8,904
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Post by Soultastic on May 13, 2024 9:52:24 GMT -5
No, not really. I see it as I did back when it came out: a sometimes fun disappointment.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,256
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Post by chazraps on May 13, 2024 10:01:53 GMT -5
I think what makes Spider-Man 3 a fascinating watch in 2024 is that it's the last big Hollywod blockbuster pre-Smartphones. So many major plotpoints in the film would be immeadiately solved with smartphone access a mere four months later.
In that regard, with how close and modern it looks, it's interesting to see just how much Smartphones changed everything in such a short amount of time.
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Post by WoodStoner1 on May 13, 2024 10:19:34 GMT -5
I think what makes Spider-Man 3 a fascinating watch in 2024 is that it's the last big Hollywod blockbuster pre-Smartphones. So many major plotpoints in the film would be immeadiately solved with smartphone access a mere four months later. In that regard, with how close and modern it looks, it's interesting to see just how much Smartphones changed everything in such a short amount of time. All I knew was someone from my (accursed ex-)job came back saying everyone hated it cause all Peter/Spidey did was cry.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on May 13, 2024 10:48:34 GMT -5
I always liked it, personally. I think a lot of the hate came from butthurt fanboys being reminded that Eddie Brock initially was a massive whiny loser.
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Ultimo Gallos
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Dreams SUCK!Nightmares live FOREVER!
Posts: 15,289
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Post by Ultimo Gallos on May 13, 2024 20:34:16 GMT -5
I still have never finished it.
Went opening weekend and 20 minutes into the film got a call and had to leave.
Whatever year it hit home video some well meaning aunt got the DVD for me and it sat unwatched on the shelf for years.
Just grabbed the blu ray cheap and we are planning a spiderman weekend and watch all the live action films,
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