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Post by gerbilfacedgeek on Jun 26, 2025 10:44:44 GMT -5
Sting, retroactively. Just for the revisionist video packages they played that said Sting becoming the Crow was him turning to the dark side.
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Post by ChitownKnight on Jun 26, 2025 10:53:41 GMT -5
CM Punk rightly pints out that Jeff Hardy is an unreliable drug addict and somehow he's the heel, complete with Jeff proving him completely right about him almost immediately It wasn't that Punk was wrong, he was moreso being a dick about it |
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Jun 26, 2025 10:56:53 GMT -5
CM Punk rightly pints out that Jeff Hardy is an unreliable drug addict and somehow he's the heel, complete with Jeff proving him completely right about him almost immediately It wasn't that Punk was wrong, he was moreso being a dick about it I'm mostly being facetious yeah. I just thought it was funny WWE spent so much time and energy on "Jeff Hardy is a changed man he shouldn't be treated this way" only for him to fall off the wagon and get arrested the minute the angle was over |
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Ultimo Gallos
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Post by Ultimo Gallos on Jun 26, 2025 11:01:04 GMT -5
CM Punk rightly pints out that Jeff Hardy is an unreliable drug addict and somehow he's the heel, complete with Jeff proving him completely right about him almost immediately It wasn't that Punk was wrong, he was moreso being a dick about it Wow Militant SxE person being a dick about something...I am SHOCKED! |
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Post by gerbilfacedgeek on Jun 26, 2025 11:18:28 GMT -5
Wasn't Paul Orndoff's Heel turn down to the fact that Hogan missed one phone call? I agree that it was something that was bubbling over in general, between that and Adonis and Heenan encouraging it by playing to Paul's ego. It was part of a bigger picture. Still, this is one case where I would actually say Hogan's guilt wasn't as obvious. He didn't mean to miss the phone call, and obviously he met up with Orndorff because they would appear together to seemingly talk about Studd and Bundy, until Orndorff turned it into the Moondogs. Paul just snapped because he had the heels playing Iago and it made him insecure about everything. Notice how Paul was done with Bobby again over insecurity. When Rick Rude replaced him as the favorite, he couldn't stand that too. Hogan's guilt is showing a bit more in the Andre turn, on the other hand, but mainly with hogging the spotlight at Andre's presentation. Hogan didn't ask for a bigger trophy, and yes, Andre COULD have asked for a title shot. It again was mostly Bobby Iago'ing in Andre's ear. I get that the Megapowers thing was SUPPOSED to be misunderstandings, and you have Savage as another insecure antagonist believing it all. Still, if you watch those Mania 5 promos up until Randy goes full blown heel with Pukamaniacs and all, maybe the spot where he cuts off Hogan saying "I love Elizabeth...", you could sympathize with him. But Sid is where Hogan is most guilty, IMO. He KNEW the Royal Rumble was every man for himself, yet he was a sore loser AND cost Sid his chance at the title. |
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Post by gerbilfacedgeek on Jun 26, 2025 11:23:03 GMT -5
Was it ever explained why Ric Flair or DDP turned heel in the Spring of 1999? I think they just kind of happened, like one week it was " that DOES work for me, brother". Fixed. |
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tirtefaa
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Post by tirtefaa on Jun 26, 2025 11:55:48 GMT -5
1999 in general; Vince McMahon becoming the Higher Power has to be up there. Even if he wanted to trick Austin, revealing he was behind it made no sense since Austin was already working with him, so it basically guaranteed that Austin was going to go after him again. Not only that, it immediately backfired by Austin becoming CEO. Val Venis sticking the Mr. Rocko sock (that has already been thrown away) in his trunks started a very bizarre heel run. Sting is told for weeks and weeks by Lex Luger that Hogan is going to doublecross him and he has proof. Sting instead is shown to be in cahoots with Lex the entire time. Rikishi heel turn and reason. He claimed for the Rock so him and his people can reach the top of the WWE. The issue is The Rock was already a multi time champion before that. The the solo act to Austin benefit The Big Show who became WWE champion that night. The Rock didn't become WWE champion until April of the next year for a month...with the help from Austin. To be fair, Rock did address this and say that it made no sense, and that he was never held down. It was Rikishi just grasping for straws when he had been outed. I'd say the whole thing fell apart once they shifted focus to Triple H. After Armageddon, Rikishi was just another background figure. If anything, Rikishi shouldn't have been in the HIAC, and they should have given him another feud to help him regain credibility after Austin, Rock and Undertaker completely destroyed him. |
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Post by Garyspivey on Jun 26, 2025 12:14:06 GMT -5
Or Hulk was just a major dick and rightfully had people get sick of his s***; either reason works. Hmm, what's the saying? If everyone you meet is an asshole, it is you who are the asshole. Considering how many times Hulk's friends betrayed him, I think it's pretty safe to say that he was an asshole. Sting must be the king of the assholes lol |
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Post by lildude8218 on Jun 26, 2025 12:41:13 GMT -5
Andre was jealous Hogan got a larger trophy than he did. Then Heenan got into his head about Hogan never offering him a title match. Not everything has to be gold to be memorable or historic. I mean, it seemed obvious that Andre had turned heel behind the scenes prior to the trophy. The storyline actually started with Gorilla Monsoon mentioning that Andre was getting reinstated and Bobby Heenan simply ignoring him on commentary every time he'd mention it. Jesse Ventura then does a series of interviews trying to figure out what went on at the hearing finally revealing that Heenan was there but Andre wasn't. Heenan finally speaks on the matter and puts over Andre hard. It almost seemed like a sudden babyface turn for Heenan. Then Andre walks out during Hogan's trophy ceremony and it's obvious that he's already turned because he grabs Hulk's hand and shakes it really tightly. The size of Andre's trophy was just more fodder for Heenan to prove everything he had been saying to Andre. |
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Post by Milkman Norm on Jun 26, 2025 13:36:39 GMT -5
Andre was jealous Hogan got a larger trophy than he did. Then Heenan got into his head about Hogan never offering him a title match. Not everything has to be gold to be memorable or historic. I mean, it seemed obvious that Andre had turned heel behind the scenes prior to the trophy. The storyline actually started with Gorilla Monsoon mentioning that Andre was getting reinstated and Bobby Heenan simply ignoring him on commentary every time he'd mention it. Jesse Ventura then does a series of interviews trying to figure out what went on at the hearing finally revealing that Heenan was there but Andre wasn't. Heenan finally speaks on the matter and puts over Andre hard. It almost seemed like a sudden babyface turn for Heenan. Then Andre walks out during Hogan's trophy ceremony and it's obvious that he's already turned because he grabs Hulk's hand and shakes it really tightly. The size of Andre's trophy was just more fodder for Heenan to prove everything he had been saying to Andre. Thank you. The abrupt change in Bobby Heenan, who had spent the past several months trying to prove Giant Machine was Andre so he'd be banned for life, to first refusing to talk about his return to actively praising him was the start of the angle. But since WWE generally starts the video package with the trophy bit it's been lost to time. |
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Jun 26, 2025 14:37:21 GMT -5
I mean, it seemed obvious that Andre had turned heel behind the scenes prior to the trophy. The storyline actually started with Gorilla Monsoon mentioning that Andre was getting reinstated and Bobby Heenan simply ignoring him on commentary every time he'd mention it. Jesse Ventura then does a series of interviews trying to figure out what went on at the hearing finally revealing that Heenan was there but Andre wasn't. Heenan finally speaks on the matter and puts over Andre hard. It almost seemed like a sudden babyface turn for Heenan. Then Andre walks out during Hogan's trophy ceremony and it's obvious that he's already turned because he grabs Hulk's hand and shakes it really tightly. The size of Andre's trophy was just more fodder for Heenan to prove everything he had been saying to Andre. Thank you. The abrupt change in Bobby Heenan, who had spent the past several months trying to prove Giant Machine was Andre so he'd be banned for life, to first refusing to talk about his return to actively praising him was the start of the angle. But since WWE generally starts the video package with the trophy bit it's been lost to time. I was too young, but when I was a teenager, Sky showed the weekly shows as Classics, seeing all that it was some of the best storytelling they've done. |
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Post by lildude8218 on Jun 26, 2025 15:18:11 GMT -5
One little thing that I just noticed. So The Machines angle starts in the summer of 86 and Heenan assumes that Capt. Lou is the mastermind behind the whole thing. Albano has his last match as a manager in November managing the Machines and the next day is his last match wrestling with The Bulldogs against the Dream Team and Johnny V. The storyline with Andre being reinstated starts 2 weeks later. So once Albano was out of the picture, Heenan was able to weasel (pun intended) into Andre's head. If the first mention of Andre being reinstated happens on the show just before then it's really great writing.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Jun 26, 2025 18:00:18 GMT -5
Lets think about the Undertaker heel turn in 01. Pretty much he felt nobody respected him based on because JR refused to legit kiss Vince's ass.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jun 27, 2025 2:10:37 GMT -5
Lets think about the Undertaker heel turn in 01. Pretty much he felt nobody respected him based on because JR refused to legit kiss Vince's ass. Let’s be fair here. It was because he gave Vince everything and didn’t feel respected by *checks notes* the rest of the roster and Jim Ross. |
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Magnus the Magnificent
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Post by Magnus the Magnificent on Jun 27, 2025 7:24:28 GMT -5
Lets think about the Undertaker heel turn in 01. Pretty much he felt nobody respected him based on because JR refused to legit kiss Vince's ass. Well, I guess he felt that JR disrespected him by being kayfabe "better" than him, because Taker in the promo admits to metaphorically kissing Vince's ass for the past 11 years. A matter of integrity and self respect, I wager. Which is funny, because JR was a huge ass-kisser with close to zero integrity or self respect, considering how much abuse he's taken and always came crawling back when Vince called. |
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Jun 27, 2025 8:20:56 GMT -5
Lets think about the Undertaker heel turn in 01. Pretty much he felt nobody respected him based on because JR refused to legit kiss Vince's ass. Well, I guess he felt that JR disrespected him by being kayfabe "better" than him, because Taker in the promo admits to metaphorically kissing Vince's ass for the past 11 years. A matter of integrity and self respect, I wager. Which is funny, because JR was a huge ass-kisser with close to zero integrity or self respect, considering how much abuse he's taken and always came crawling back when Vince called. It was also in that confusing work/shoot style. So The Undertaker, who was a zombie most of that time, in the back was kissing his ass which went against pretty much everything we'd ever seen. There were interactions between them, but generally it ended up with Vince scared of him, even when they were aligned. |
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Magnus the Magnificent
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Post by Magnus the Magnificent on Jun 27, 2025 10:48:00 GMT -5
Well, I guess he felt that JR disrespected him by being kayfabe "better" than him, because Taker in the promo admits to metaphorically kissing Vince's ass for the past 11 years. A matter of integrity and self respect, I wager. Which is funny, because JR was a huge ass-kisser with close to zero integrity or self respect, considering how much abuse he's taken and always came crawling back when Vince called. It was also in that confusing work/shoot style. So The Undertaker, who was a zombie most of that time, in the back was kissing his ass which went against pretty much everything we'd ever seen. There were interactions between them, but generally it ended up with Vince scared of him, even when they were aligned. True, although that cat was already out the bag since over a year. Ministry Taker already blurred the kayfabe lines when it was revealed that Mark was such a mark for the gimmick that he believed it to be real, lol. (Hiya, Russo!) |
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Post by sungod2020 on Jul 22, 2025 18:14:14 GMT -5
4 pages and no one mentioned Rick Martel's heel turn on Tito Santana at Wrestlemania V all because Tito missed a flying punch and landed on Martel's face? Then they start feuding for the next year and a half. Not to mention Martel, who was originally a white meat babyface, sprays Jake Robert's face with his arrogance, temporarily blinding him, steals Tatanka's sacred feathers and wears it as part of his beret, and tries to steal Shawn's manager Sherri. Like was all that in him this whole time?
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cassonova
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Post by cassonova on Jul 22, 2025 19:02:30 GMT -5
4 pages and no one mentioned Rick Martel's heel turn on Tito Santana at Wrestlemania V all because Tito missed a flying punch and landed on Martel's face? Then they start feuding for the next year and a half. Not to mention Martel, who was originally a white meat babyface, sprays Jake Robert's face with his arrogance, temporarily blinding him, steals Tatanka's sacred feathers and wears it as part of his beret, and tries to steal Shawn's manager Sherri. Like was all that in him this whole time? Inspired by Rick Martel's turn on Tito Santana at WrestleMania 5. Tito clobbers Martel in what is very obviously a one-time accident. Martel, who has been nothing but a white meat babyface for virtually his entire career, holds his face for the next five minutes as if his jaw is dislocated, leaves Tito to be destroyed by the Brain Busters and becomes a conceited ass for the next several years, during which he blinds a man with cologne, steals sacred Native American feathers, openly attempts to steal another heel's girlfriend and other shamelessly nefarious offenses. Like, what the hell, Martel? Was that inside you the whole time? Any other examples where something that wasn't that big a deal ended up turning a good guy into a terrible human being? Overreaction? My client has a classic case of Fred Flintstone Post-Concussion Syndrome. The force of Tito's infamous forearm was enough to dislodge a fantasy personality, one that overtook Martel's own. Instead of giving Martel medical attention or a piledriver, they gave him a giant button that read "Yes, I am a model." |
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Post by Urethra Franklin on Jul 22, 2025 19:28:30 GMT -5
I know the official heel turn came later, but painting Sid as the villain- for eliminating Hogan at the Rumble was just stupid. That’s literally the whole premise of the match. And then f***ing Hogan grabs Sid’s arm and costs him the title, but Sid’s the bad guy?! Come on. |
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