Gunhaver
Don Corleone
"Gunhaver! You actually have a gun!"
Posts: 1,531
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Post by Gunhaver on Jul 28, 2025 16:35:41 GMT -5
I’d put gutting TNA up there as well. It was always a two steps forward, one step back operation, but they had found a formula that was working and it offered something different from WWE. And then he killed all of it. Yes, but six sides only got them so far, you see. |
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Gunhaver
Don Corleone
"Gunhaver! You actually have a gun!"
Posts: 1,531
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Post by Gunhaver on Jul 28, 2025 17:01:05 GMT -5
I get that but couldn't they have tried again at some point in the following years? He intervened on this apparent union thing like forty years ago. That’s my take on it too. Especially around the mid-00s when you had Eddie and Benoit dying whilst actively wrestling. If ever the wrestlers had the moment to say to to all the big promoters “right, we’re doing this and with the media fixated on wrestler’s health right now, if you make any attempt to stop it, you’ll never recover from it”. I’m not saying that no union was the only factor in those specific examples nor that if there was a union that they still wouldn’t have died when they did but it certainly wouldn’t have hurt if there was already one in place by then I'll admit that I've never thought of it like this, and it's definitely true, but it doesn't change the fact that he's responsible for hurting guys of his generation. If it weren't for later WWE taking an interest in helping past performers like Jake Roberts, we'd see more of those guys suffering than we already do. |
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MolotovMocktail
Grimlock
Home of the 5-time, 5-time, 5-time, 5-time 5-time Super Bowl Champion 49ers-and Wrestlemania 31
Posts: 14,282
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Post by MolotovMocktail on Jul 28, 2025 17:16:08 GMT -5
Maybe not the absolute worst (his creative meddling in WCW and TNA damaged both companies, but arguably no worse than Russo), he would likely be remembered a lot more fondly if he put over Bret in 1993. It could have been a solid face vs. face match, with both guys looking strong, and creative possibilities for each of them going forward.
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Post by DiBiase is Good on Jul 28, 2025 17:19:38 GMT -5
That’s my take on it too. Especially around the mid-00s when you had Eddie and Benoit dying whilst actively wrestling. If ever the wrestlers had the moment to say to to all the big promoters “right, we’re doing this and with the media fixated on wrestler’s health right now, if you make any attempt to stop it, you’ll never recover from it”. I’m not saying that no union was the only factor in those specific examples nor that if there was a union that they still wouldn’t have died when they did but it certainly wouldn’t have hurt if there was already one in place by then I'll admit that I've never thought of it like this, and it's definitely true, but it doesn't change the fact that he's responsible for hurting guys of his generation. If it weren't for later WWE taking an interest in helping past performers like Jake Roberts, we'd see more of those guys suffering than we already do. Oh absolutely, not going to argue that it could have helped people at the time and in the years that followed. But by the mid-00s, Hogan had very little sway in WWE anymore and so if ever wrestlers had Vince by the bollocks, it was around the time of Benoit. Whilst it obviously would have no effect on the previous twenty years since the union plans were torpedoed, it certainly could have helped the next twenty years. |
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Jul 28, 2025 17:22:48 GMT -5
Hogan ratting to Vince sucked, but I don't think there is anyway there would have been a wrestler's union considering the cast of characters around at the time.
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Jul 28, 2025 17:24:37 GMT -5
Starcade '97 is always my vote, because it killed WCW and was just Hogan looking out for Hogan.
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Post by nastyearl on Jul 28, 2025 17:54:55 GMT -5
Starcade '97 is always my vote, because it killed WCW and was just Hogan looking out for Hogan. Sting has gone on record about not being in a good mental, emotional, and physical shape leading upto Starrcade 1997. He was dealing with addiction (alcohol and prescription pills), and his marriage was falling apart. |
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Post by The Ghost of Zombie Mod on Jul 28, 2025 18:01:14 GMT -5
Changing WCW to HHCW/a rehash of the 80s WWF. I get it was good for business, but like with Russo joining, you now had WWF vs. WWF Lite. It took the Nitro and the NWO to make the company evolve at last. To a lesser degree, he made TNA more Hogancentric as well. Maybe insisting WCW hire ex-WWF stars not for business, but to get his wins back? (Warrior definitely. The rumors about Yoko which would be even worse considering he was barely in acceptable shape) I think you're glossing over the monumental damage he did to tna both on and off screen, his complete storylines reboot derailed all the progress the company had made (pushing both indy & home grown stars had gained them some stability and increased ratings) removing all the current stars being replaced with hogan's friends as the focus of the shows, inserted himself into all the top storylines for his run in the company (either directly or as on screen authority figure.), insisted they went from their unique six sided ring back to the normal square ring (though this was probably a good change as most of the wrestlers hated the six sided ring) removing something the company had built up as their thing that helped them stand out, shoehorned his daughter into their big storyline (aces & eights.), advertised a wwe show during a press event for tna, insisting tna switch to monday nights to compete with raw (though this wasn't just his idea as bischoff probably helped convince dixie to do this.) despite everyone and their dog knowing it was going to be an absolute squash in wwe's favour, pushed for the company to go nationwide for shows when they just weren't at that point yet fanbase wise, his exit from tna was designed to make him look like he was the lifeblood of the company and the company would die the moment he left (dixie carter hanging on to his leg pleading with him to stay while he shuffled off backstage.) despite him no longer being able to physically do anything in the ring other than throw punches. and that's just the stuff I remember without looking back further into his time in tna. |
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Post by OGBoardPoster2K5 on Jul 28, 2025 18:16:26 GMT -5
If he didnt do it, someone else would have. Flair, Dusty, and even Harley. It didnt benefit the guys making the most and they will choose the promoter. You needed a strong legal movement for it to happen and in 1980s America that wasn't going to happen. Not to defend it but thats the reality of it. |
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Jul 28, 2025 18:20:16 GMT -5
The only right answer is a board rules-breaking flood of gifs from early '10s TNA just absolutely miserable watching him come in and drain the life out of the company like a vampire for the sake of getting the Nasty Boys jobs.
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Post by Charles "Charlie" Charles on Jul 28, 2025 19:08:19 GMT -5
Starcade '97 is always my vote, because it killed WCW and was just Hogan looking out for Hogan. Sting has gone on record about not being in a good mental, emotional, and physical shape leading upto Starrcade 1997. He was dealing with addiction (alcohol and prescription pills), and his marriage was falling apart. That very well may have been the case, but it still wasn't for Hogan to sabotage the whole angle on the night of the payoff. So let's not pretend it was a benevolent act on his part. |
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Jul 28, 2025 19:13:29 GMT -5
Starcade '97 is always my vote, because it killed WCW and was just Hogan looking out for Hogan. Sting has gone on record about not being in a good mental, emotional, and physical shape leading upto Starrcade 1997. He was dealing with addiction (alcohol and prescription pills), and his marriage was falling apart. And he still should have won. |
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mcstoklasa
Hank Scorpio
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Posts: 7,177
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Post by mcstoklasa on Jul 28, 2025 19:17:14 GMT -5
WCW was absolutely interminable by the end. That definitely wasn't all on Hulk though. Endless NWO "cool heels" run ins, endless interference, absolutely shoddy booking and general tediousness. It was also massively on the likes of Bischoff, Russo, and all the old guard really like Nash, Hall etc.
Hulk and Bisch in TNA was just a bad idea from the start so that's my pick. And bringing in all his stooges and hanger ons sucked. At least Hulk was still relatively youngish when he came to WCW and still had something to offer physically. I'm not going to look it up but I expect Hogan in WCW was considerably younger than all the old farts still going nowadays (Hardys, Edge, Jericho etc).
I hated the six sided ring though so I approved of that.
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Post by thegame415 on Jul 28, 2025 22:31:10 GMT -5
I mean, it has to be betraying the fans by joining the nWo, right?
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Post by nastyearl on Jul 28, 2025 23:24:17 GMT -5
Sting has gone on record about not being in a good mental, emotional, and physical shape leading upto Starrcade 1997. He was dealing with addiction (alcohol and prescription pills), and his marriage was falling apart. That very well may have been the case, but it still wasn't for Hogan to sabotage the whole angle on the night of the payoff. So let's not pretend it was a benevolent act on his part. I honestly never heard this before about Hogan intentionally sabotaging the match. Has anybody ever come forward about this? Of course there was the Bash at the Beach 2000 incident. But never have I heard Hogan to blame for the f’d up finish from Starrcade. I’m not trying to sound naive.ehat it looks like with Starrcade was that they were looking to create a screwy finish with the intention of setting up a rematch at SuperBrawl, which they did. |
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Post by Charles "Charlie" Charles on Jul 29, 2025 5:11:04 GMT -5
That very well may have been the case, but it still wasn't for Hogan to sabotage the whole angle on the night of the payoff. So let's not pretend it was a benevolent act on his part. I honestly never heard this before about Hogan intentionally sabotaging the match. Has anybody ever come forward about this? Of course there was the Bash at the Beach 2000 incident. But never have I heard Hogan to blame for the f’d up finish from Starrcade. I’m not trying to sound naive.ehat it looks like with Starrcade was that they were looking to create a screwy finish with the intention of setting up a rematch at SuperBrawl, which they did. Bischoff said that Hogan was being difficult about the finish until that afternoon, and Nick Patrick claimed years later that Hogan and Bischoff had told him to do the infamous "fast" count at normal speed. And then there was the actual finish where Hogan didn't actually submit, so the face won in a screwjob finish and looked like an absolute mug. Everything about that screamed of Hogan not wanting to do a clean job on their biggest card ever, and so he didn't, even in the rematch he couldn't lose without interference. There was one acceptable finish there and one only, which was for Hogan to lose clean and send everyone home happy, and then perhaps after that you can start f***ing around with rematches.
And then you had Bischoff giving out about how it was because Sting turned up without a tan. The character was someone who hung around the dark recesses of buildings, they tend not to be the sort of person to go down to the beach or the solarium. |
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Sephiroth
Patti Mayonnaise
Surviving
Posts: 30,067
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Post by Sephiroth on Jul 29, 2025 5:32:23 GMT -5
WCW was absolutely interminable by the end. That definitely wasn't all on Hulk though. Endless NWO "cool heels" run ins, endless interference, absolutely shoddy booking and general tediousness. It was also massively on the likes of Bischoff, Russo, and all the old guard really like Nash, Hall etc. Hulk and Bisch in TNA was just a bad idea from the start so that's my pick. And bringing in all his stooges and hanger ons sucked. At least Hulk was still relatively youngish when he came to WCW and still had something to offer physically. I'm not going to look it up but I expect Hogan in WCW was considerably younger than all the old farts still going nowadays (Hardys, Edge, Jericho etc). I hated the six sided ring though so I approved of that. There is no greater summary of his time in TNA than him bringing in bubba the love sponge. Who got into a verbal altercation with awesome kong, a centerpiece of the women’s roster-which was their biggest ratings draw at the time. Bubba goes to Hogan and kong is gone in short order. Only for bubba to stab the immortal one in the back by recording him in bed with his wife. |
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Post by Charles "Charlie" Charles on Jul 29, 2025 5:49:31 GMT -5
At least Hulk was still relatively youngish when he came to WCW and still had something to offer physically. I'm not going to look it up but I expect Hogan in WCW was considerably younger than all the old farts still going nowadays (Hardys, Edge, Jericho etc). He always looked ancient, but Hulk Hogan was forty years old when he debuted in WCW. That's a young man. Seriously. |
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Jul 29, 2025 6:14:57 GMT -5
Thinking what a promotion full of promising young talent needed in 2010 was the goddamn Nasty Boys.
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David Silver
Crow T. Robot
You're so precious to me. Am I precious to you?
Posts: 42,392
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Post by David Silver on Jul 29, 2025 6:30:40 GMT -5
Starcade '97 is always my vote, because it killed WCW and was just Hogan looking out for Hogan. Sting has gone on record about not being in a good mental, emotional, and physical shape leading upto Starrcade 1997. He was dealing with addiction (alcohol and prescription pills), and his marriage was falling apart. That's a valid point. That said, there were many ways to work around it that would have been far better than what they went with |
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