PHD-FENDERBAUM
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Post by PHD-FENDERBAUM on Aug 8, 2025 10:07:15 GMT -5
If he stays they need to let him be his AAA version but I have no faith they will let him be the ultra violent version of himself he once was which is what he was when he first showed up in NXT.
So the next best thing is turn him face let him cut his same promos on heels and honestly I think this would also work out better in ring for him being babyface because people want to see the bad guys get f***ing bodied as violently as possible , I just think he is cast wrong right now as a full blown heel especially with how over he has gotten.
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Post by EoE: Workin On My Night Cheese on Aug 8, 2025 10:31:57 GMT -5
It just feels like… “Stolen valour” might be too harsh a word for it, but it’s along those lines. He isn’t the one that deserves a push the most, he got lucky enough to be the one to get given the platform and complain loud enough about not getting it.
OK, Kross is a “good soldier”… Guess what, so is everybody else, and most of them are probably just as frustrated about it as he was. But they still pushed him hard enough that they gave him that promo time to start with. Half the roster don’t even get THAT.
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Post by polarbearpete on Aug 8, 2025 10:32:01 GMT -5
I was surprised by how positive the response was towards Kross at SummerSlam. If he's just a midcard character player that pops up, talks shit, advances stories and has 2 star matches, that seems fine to me? There's room for talent like that in companies. This feels like one of those times where the crowd has chosen to get behind an underdog that the more passionate, vocal fans don't love - it's almost like the reverse Daniel Bryan. Honestly, as a fanbase, they should be concerned about the fact that WWE let his contract lapse just to offer him a new deal that, objectively, will likely be less because as far as we know, nobody has given him an offer that could be used as leverage for a new deal. Because there's zero chance that's not happening here. Why should the fanbase be concerned with the monetary terms of his deal? |
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Aug 8, 2025 10:45:10 GMT -5
Honestly, as a fanbase, they should be concerned about the fact that WWE let his contract lapse just to offer him a new deal that, objectively, will likely be less because as far as we know, nobody has given him an offer that could be used as leverage for a new deal. Because there's zero chance that's not happening here. Why should the fanbase be concerned with the monetary terms of his deal? I mean, outside of the fact these people should be able to live good lives in the business they work for, they shouldn’t but like I said, blatantly what’s happening here. |
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Post by polarbearpete on Aug 8, 2025 10:56:57 GMT -5
Why should the fanbase be concerned with the monetary terms of his deal? I mean, outside of the fact these people should be able to live good lives in the business they work for, they shouldn’t but like I said, blatantly what’s happening here. I’ve never seen any indication that anyone on a modern main roster deal is unable to make a good living. |
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Sparkybob
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Post by Sparkybob on Aug 8, 2025 11:13:43 GMT -5
Why should the fanbase be concerned with the monetary terms of his deal? I mean, outside of the fact these people should be able to live good lives in the business they work for, they shouldn’t but like I said, blatantly what’s happening here. If this hypothetical is true that he got a pay cut, why is the assumption that it isn't a reflection of his true value on the market because no other company was willing to beat the WWE offer. I can say my baby sitting hourly rates are valued at 30/hr but if no one pays me that it's either I am wrong or everybody else is wrong. |
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Aug 8, 2025 11:20:37 GMT -5
I mean, outside of the fact these people should be able to live good lives in the business they work for, they shouldn’t but like I said, blatantly what’s happening here. If this hypothetical is true that he got a pay cut, why is the assumption that it isn't a reflection of his true value on the market because no other company was willing to beat the WWE offer. I can say my baby sitting hourly rates are valued at 30/hr but if no one pays me that it's either I am wrong or everybody else is wrong. Again, you’re not wrong. Just pointing out the obvious strategy the company is doing instead of just extending the previous deal. Feels weird this is getting blowback but eh. |
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David Silver
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Post by David Silver on Aug 8, 2025 13:50:07 GMT -5
It just feels like… “Stolen valour” might be too harsh a word for it, but it’s along those lines. He isn’t the one that deserves a push the most, he got lucky enough to be the one to get given the platform and complain loud enough about not getting it. OK, Kross is a “good soldier”… Guess what, so is everybody else, and most of them are probably just as frustrated about it as he was. But they still pushed him hard enough that they gave him that promo time to start with. Half the roster don’t even get THAT. And again, not to keep beating this dead horse, but they gave him feuds with Styles and Sami, 2 very over and very capable workers . Most guys would kill for that chance. And while the character stuff was good, the matches were mediocre. When you can't have a good match with either of them, that's going to do nothing for your quest to soak up more TV time and get anything resembling a huge push. ![]() |
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PHD-FENDERBAUM
El Dandy
I TRUST THE TRASHCAN
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Post by PHD-FENDERBAUM on Aug 8, 2025 14:04:09 GMT -5
It just feels like… “Stolen valour” might be too harsh a word for it, but it’s along those lines. He isn’t the one that deserves a push the most, he got lucky enough to be the one to get given the platform and complain loud enough about not getting it. OK, Kross is a “good soldier”… Guess what, so is everybody else, and most of them are probably just as frustrated about it as he was. But they still pushed him hard enough that they gave him that promo time to start with. Half the roster don’t even get THAT. And again, not to keep beating this dead horse, but they gave him feuds with Styles and Sami, 2 very over and very capable workers . Most guys would kill for that chance. And while the character stuff was good, the matches were mediocre. When you can't have a good match with either of them, that's going to do nothing for your quest to soak up more TV time and get anything resembling a huge push. ![]() Pretty sure the Styles match was one people actually enjoyed and the ending was really well done when he deliberately put his hands behind his back to take Styles finisher. |
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Post by Very Professional Platypus Mod on Aug 8, 2025 14:36:45 GMT -5
It just feels like… “Stolen valour” might be too harsh a word for it, but it’s along those lines. He isn’t the one that deserves a push the most, he got lucky enough to be the one to get given the platform and complain loud enough about not getting it. OK, Kross is a “good soldier”… Guess what, so is everybody else, and most of them are probably just as frustrated about it as he was. But they still pushed him hard enough that they gave him that promo time to start with. Half the roster don’t even get THAT. and as I've said ... Kross has been a HHH guy since he first walked in the door. It's why he was pushed so hard in NXT when nobody cared about him. It's why he was rehired immediately after Vince was ousted. |
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Post by Hot Noodle Truck on Aug 8, 2025 14:48:21 GMT -5
No disrespect intended but why is that the immediate response to that sort of argument? Like, say what you will about the guy but Hulk Hogan was able to work in the ring with his selling and getting people invested before doing the big heroic comeback. He cut promos about fighting until the end and using the crowd to power him up, which reflected in how his matches worked. That's what people mean when they make that argument, being able to make the audience invest and care in what you do with the moves and how you react to certain situations. It's why there was a point in time when Hacksaw Jim Duggan got himself over in, like, three different decades and I can't exactly look at him as a technical grappler. It's one of Kross' biggest criticisms against him is that he just can't be that sort of worker. He's great at character work and cutting promos etc but if you can't translate that into how you work as a pro wrestler and the style you convey, it falls apart and people care less. That's what people talk about, not if you can do a 450 or whatever argument people use. I think the issue with Kross is that he's wrestling for the TV audience, not the live audience, so it doesn't connect as well in arenas and stadiums after the bell rings. Guys like Hogan and Duggan wrestled in a way that connected with the people in the very last row of the arena, whereas Kross' style seems more specifically targeted for the cameraman at ringside. I think that's why you get the "We want Kross" chants from people who've been watching him on television, but once the bell rings, those people who are watching him in person deflate pretty significantly. This is a very good point and probably the biggest reason I became a fan of his. Like, I know the dude comes across as very boring in the ring, and is getting a similar backlash to the one Jey got after the rumble. A guy that's not all that entertaining in the ring getting the shine over others that are and might possibly 'deserve' it more All the trash talking, the mannerisms, the faces he makes all translate very well to TV and really adds to the overall presentation. The problem is, like you said, that doesn't necessarily translate well to the wider viewing audience and let's be honest; while he has gained momentum, the wider WWE fan base isn't going to go out of their way to watch his stuff on Main Event or the odd Raw highlight of his they post on YouTube. I don't think my dude should be gunning for World titles right now, but a solid mid-card talent that can work as a tweener and wouldn't seem out of place as US or IC champ isn't a bad place to be in either. |
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Post by caesarofuranus on Aug 8, 2025 23:06:37 GMT -5
I had an idea for Karrion Kross to help turn Montez Ford heel and split up The Street Profits. Montez and Dawkins could have some good matches against each other hopefully.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Aug 8, 2025 23:37:58 GMT -5
You know what just put him in the mid card and have him work with others. I mean not everyone has to be a main eventer and that ain't Kross. Guy has value still. People act like in ring is the be all end all. Oh you can do a suicide dive? So does everyone else. Give me a reason to care and Kross has good character work. Stick him with people who can work well with him. I mean the match with Sami wasn't THAT bad. Many people who watch wrestling do so to see wrestling, and there is in that regard a certain minimum amount of wrestling ability that a given person needs to see someone have to want to actually see them. Kross comes in under budget for a lot of people. Like, yeah, everyone else can do a suicide dive. A suicide dive is a wrestling move! I would hope there are many wrestlers who can do wrestling moves. To that end, Kross does not need to do suicide dives, but standing out because you're worse at your job than everyone else around you is really not the saving grace you're presenting it like it is. |
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Post by Banjo Derangement Syndrome on Aug 9, 2025 1:33:27 GMT -5
He comes back doing a gimmick as a Jesse Ventura impersonator as uses the name "Kross Body."
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cosmo
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Post by cosmo on Aug 9, 2025 10:07:01 GMT -5
He comes back doing a gimmick as a Jesse Ventura impersonator as uses the name "Kross Body."
And then they get Ricky Steamboat to come out of retirement so he can hit Kross Body with a crossbody. |
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Post by jimmyjackzangroni on Aug 9, 2025 10:40:09 GMT -5
If this hypothetical is true that he got a pay cut, why is the assumption that it isn't a reflection of his true value on the market because no other company was willing to beat the WWE offer. I can say my baby sitting hourly rates are valued at 30/hr but if no one pays me that it's either I am wrong or everybody else is wrong. Again, you’re not wrong. Just pointing out the obvious strategy the company is doing instead of just extending the previous deal. Feels weird this is getting blowback but eh. I don't know if it's really getting blowback, but I think the point dude is trying to make is: If nobody else wants him, and he's not drawing money for his current company, why would anyone in their right mind continue paying him what is objectively too much money? The fact that they are even willing to resign him for LESS money is a pretty nice gesture considering they could just, y'know...not spend money on a guy who isn't giving them any return on their investment. Under any other circumstances, if you were told that a company had an employee who was notably bad at their job and actively brought down the performance of other employees, but they were going to keep paying him a bunch of money to either continue that or do nothing at all, you would wonder what the hell that company is thinking. Oh and, by the way, NONE of the other companies in your field have any interest in hiring this employee, either. Just because these people play fight on TV doesn't mean they shouldn't be held to the same standard of "Be good at your job or get the hell out." |
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Aug 9, 2025 10:47:39 GMT -5
If nobody else wants him, and he's not drawing money for his current company, why would anyone in their right mind continue paying him what is objectively too much money? I mean, I could be wrong here but wasn't there a time just a couple of weeks ago his shirt was one of the top selling shirts? That would kind of make him a draw in that sense? Look, I'm not saying he should be the biggest pushed guy in the company but it feels very weird to have a guy who can get interest on social media and in terms of merch and let his contract lapse unless you want to sign him on a lesser deal knowing he isn't going to go to a work-rate based place like AEW or most Japanese promotions. |
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Post by jimmyjackzangroni on Aug 9, 2025 11:06:30 GMT -5
If nobody else wants him, and he's not drawing money for his current company, why would anyone in their right mind continue paying him what is objectively too much money? I mean, I could be wrong here but wasn't there a time just a couple of weeks ago his shirt was one of the top selling shirts? That would kind of make him a draw in that sense? Look, I'm not saying he should be the biggest pushed guy in the company but it feels very weird to have a guy who can get interest on social media and in terms of merch and let his contract lapse unless you want to sign him on a lesser deal knowing he isn't going to go to a work-rate based place like AEW or most Japanese promotions. No, that's just adjusting for what the guy is worth. If his merch sales are really that good, he'll still make good money in WWE, that's one of their main sources of income. But you can't pay a guy who doesn't get over on your show for being over on social media. If his matches and segments aren't drawing, then why would you pay him like a TV star? He's clearly not that. If anything, he's more of a social media guy, so pay him accordingly and then use him in that capacity. I just can't understand the narrative of "This guy deserves the same amount of money for being actively bad at his job." You should get paid your worth. As for the counter argument of "But he's got nowhere else to go because other places are workrate heavy"....yeah. That's what happens when you never get good at your job. The cost of being one dimensional is limited opportunities. If you were a trash man who was great at throwing trash in the back of the truck, but crashed every time you drove the truck, your options would be justifiably limited, right? Same thing. Or maybe a more apt analogy would be: If you had a guy who was a GREAT sales guy that everyone liked who got promoted to sales manager, but sucked at making schedules and doing paperwork, what would happen? Most places would fire him after a couple of months, at most. But some places would give him the option of going back to just sales, but obviously they can't continue to pay him like a manager. That's exactly what has happened here. They realize that, while he might have value in certain areas, he's never going to be a wrestling star on their wrestling TV show, and that requires adjustment on a lot of levels, financial included. |
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Aug 9, 2025 11:10:52 GMT -5
I mean, I could be wrong here but wasn't there a time just a couple of weeks ago his shirt was one of the top selling shirts? That would kind of make him a draw in that sense? Look, I'm not saying he should be the biggest pushed guy in the company but it feels very weird to have a guy who can get interest on social media and in terms of merch and let his contract lapse unless you want to sign him on a lesser deal knowing he isn't going to go to a work-rate based place like AEW or most Japanese promotions. No, that's just adjusting for what the guy is worth. If his merch sales are really that good, he'll still make good money in WWE, that's one of their main sources of income. But you can't pay a guy who doesn't get over on your show for being over on social media. If his matches and segments aren't drawing, then why would you pay him like a TV star? He's clearly not that. If anything, he's more of a social media guy, so pay him accordingly and then use him in that capacity. I just can't understand the narrative of "This guy deserves the same amount of money for being actively bad at his job." You should get paid your worth. As for the counter argument of "But he's got nowhere else to go because other places are workrate heavy"....yeah. That's what happens when you never get good at your job. The cost of being one dimensional is limited opportunities. If you were a trash man who was great at throwing trash in the back of the truck, but crashed every time you drove the truck, your options would be justifiably limited, right? Same thing. Or maybe a more apt analogy would be: If you had a guy who was a GREAT sales guy that everyone liked who got promoted to sales manager, but sucked at making schedules and doing paperwork, what would happen? Most places would fire him after a couple of months, at most. But some places would give him the option of going back to just sales, but obviously they can't continue to pay him like a manager. That's exactly what has happened here. They realize that, while he might have value in certain areas, he's never going to be a wrestling star on their wrestling TV show, and that requires adjustment on a lot of levels, financial included. Look, hey, I agree with you broadly. The fact is, too, he's gotten a lot more shots then other people on the roster who are actually over. I don't need to mention the fact Carmelo Hayes went from top guy to NXT to lucky to get on TV in such a rapid fashion, he must have shaken HHH's hand too lightly when they first met. I'm just saying the narrative around him now feels weird compared to the narrative not that long ago. And even if he's not good enough, crappy contract tactics are still crappy contract tactics and it's worthwhile to call them out. |
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Post by jimmyjackzangroni on Aug 9, 2025 11:16:04 GMT -5
No, that's just adjusting for what the guy is worth. If his merch sales are really that good, he'll still make good money in WWE, that's one of their main sources of income. But you can't pay a guy who doesn't get over on your show for being over on social media. If his matches and segments aren't drawing, then why would you pay him like a TV star? He's clearly not that. If anything, he's more of a social media guy, so pay him accordingly and then use him in that capacity. I just can't understand the narrative of "This guy deserves the same amount of money for being actively bad at his job." You should get paid your worth. As for the counter argument of "But he's got nowhere else to go because other places are workrate heavy"....yeah. That's what happens when you never get good at your job. The cost of being one dimensional is limited opportunities. If you were a trash man who was great at throwing trash in the back of the truck, but crashed every time you drove the truck, your options would be justifiably limited, right? Same thing. Or maybe a more apt analogy would be: If you had a guy who was a GREAT sales guy that everyone liked who got promoted to sales manager, but sucked at making schedules and doing paperwork, what would happen? Most places would fire him after a couple of months, at most. But some places would give him the option of going back to just sales, but obviously they can't continue to pay him like a manager. That's exactly what has happened here. They realize that, while he might have value in certain areas, he's never going to be a wrestling star on their wrestling TV show, and that requires adjustment on a lot of levels, financial included. Look, hey, I agree with you broadly. The fact is, too, he's gotten a lot more shots then other people on the roster who are actually over. I don't need to mention the fact Carmelo Hayes went from top guy to NXT to lucky to get on TV in such a rapid fashion, he must have shaken HHH's hand too lightly when they first met. I'm just saying the narrative around him now feels weird compared to the narrative not that long ago. And even if he's not good enough, crappy contract tactics are still crappy contract tactics and it's worthwhile to call them out. I think the place we're kinda not connecting is that I don't really see this as a crappy tactic. It's like, almost literally what they have to do in order to renegotiate, the contract has to be finished out most of the time before renegotiations can happen. Usually though, not always, so I can't speak to this specifically. Ironically, wasn't it Kross wanting to renegotiate in the middle of his TNA contract that sort of caused that bridge to get nuked for him in the first place? I could be wrong, but I thought that's what started it at least. |
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