So In Regards To Joe....

[EJS]

Joe vs Tomko

[darthpipes]

It would be stupid to move Joe down into the second-tier. He should have been champ a long time ago. This is more of Russo's asinine booking.

I don't like how the World title keeps changing hands either. It's really devaluing it. Of course, that's another Russo trademark.

[Chainsaw]

I think he should get the time off. But it's a bad sign when even the announcers ask on-air what's next for him.

[nisi]

chainsawiscaw said:

I think he should get the time off. But it's a bad sign when even the announcers ask on-air what's next for him.

Agreed, my thought too that the announcers' speculation looked weird.

[HMARK Center]

What's weird about it? The guy just dedicated about four months to going after Kurt Angle, only to have his chance at victory slip away by about one second. He has no other feuds lined up (which is fine, since he should've been focused entirely on Angle), and it has to kill him to lose that way, so where does he go from here?

It opens up the door for Joe to instigate something, or even to just take some time off if he's not 100%. Joe's going to be fine. He's probably going to be champion before the year's out, as well, but that's another story.

[cosmonaut]

hitmanmark said:

What's weird about it? The guy just dedicated about four months to going after Kurt Angle, only to have his chance at victory slip away by about one second. He has no other feuds lined up (which is fine, since he should've been focused entirely on Angle), and it has to kill him to lose that way, so where does he go from here?

It opens up the door for Joe to instigate something, or even to just take some time off if he's not 100%. Joe's going to be fine. He's probably going to be champion before the year's out, as well, but that's another story.

How many times was this said in the first half of 2006?

I just can't stand TNA booking anymore (and this has nothing to do with Russo; I've been yawning since before he arrived). I used to watch and follow religiously, but I'm just tired of their moronic nonsense.

The inferiority complex that they have is amazing; I'm absolutely tired of seeing random guys from outside of TNA show up and win/contend for the title immediately. Joe showed up, destroyed everyone in the X-Division. Cage shows up, automatically in the main event. Sting comes back, also automatically in the main event.

They spend time building Joe as a total monster that can't be stopped for what, a year and a half? Great. I'm on board. What's that? What's the payoff? Being shown-up by a newly-arriving Kurt Angle. It's been said before, and I'm finally agreeing; I don't care how you book it, how great Joe looks during their matches, the fact is that TNA is way too obsessed with cashing in on old names.

Angle in TNA is a great idea. Angle vs. Joe is a great idea. But there's a thing called suspense. They blew their load way too early with Angle/Joe, just as they did with tons of other guys. Angle could have been great without being in the title hunt, a real asset. But once you give him the belt, and then he loses it, what does he do? What does Christian do? What does Joe do once he wins and inevitably loses it? You can only have so many guys feuding over one title.

[Error]

Joe wants the belt and Rhino still wants the belt and their feud never really happened so just have those two go at it (I didn't see the PPV but read that Rhino won the LMS match).

Or have him bring out a custom belt and claim that he has been ripped off since he was unbeaten for 16 months and never got a shot at the title, yet Angle wins 4 or 5 matches and is at the front of the line. It can be like Taz in ECW with the FTW belt but, maybe have the title stick around as a new midcard belt.

[H-Fist]

Russo's valuation of the belt is informed by the events of the Attitude era. We call it devalued because it's passed around like a doobie in a rental car speeding through Ohio in early July 2006. But the fact of the matter is, there are a great deal of main-event caliber wrestlers in TNA. It would make more sense for Abyss, Christian, Sting, Angle, Joe, Jarrett, Rhino, AJ to trade it than to have one guy booked above the others such that he but not they can withstand weekly beatings at the hands of the others. Just like the 98-99 title picture in WWF. Austin, HBK, HHH, Rock, Taker, Kane, Mankind...it's about rewarding the top guys who all deserve it. So one gets lucky one night, but can't keep it for a long time because he's wore down. Joe is mortal in TNA, whereas his reign in ROH was his domination of the field.

[HMARK Center]

drhfist said:

Russo's valuation of the belt is informed by the events of the Attitude era. We call it devalued because it's passed around like a doobie in a rental car speeding through Ohio in early July 2006. But the fact of the matter is, there are a great deal of main-event caliber wrestlers in TNA. It would make more sense for Abyss, Christian, Sting, Angle, Joe, Jarrett, Rhino, AJ to trade it than to have one guy booked above the others such that he but not they can withstand weekly beatings at the hands of the others. Just like the 98-99 title picture in WWF. Austin, HBK, HHH, Rock, Taker, Kane, Mankind...it's about rewarding the top guys who all deserve it. So one gets lucky one night, but can't keep it for a long time because he's wore down. Joe is mortal in TNA, whereas his reign in ROH was his domination of the field.

True, to a degree.

The way I see it, you CAN have a glut of main event talent, but still have guys with long title reigns.

However, if you want the belt to be the focal point for all the main eventers, then, yes, it DOES make sense to "pass it around" more, since having so many high calibur wrestlers shooting for the gold will obviously result in more title changes.

Looking at ROH: there's a ton of main event/World-title worthy talent, but it's very rare that more than, say, two or three guys are solely focused on the belt. Most guys have their own feuds going on, and while they may get title shots in the meantime, their kayfabe minds are going to be distracted by whatever other big feuds they've got going on at the time.

In TNA, however, they seem to have many, many guys shooting for the belt all at once, which opens the door for more frequent title changes.

I prefer the ROH style I mentioned, but it's not like there's no merit to this style, either (see: late 90's WWF).

[Just "Dan" is Fine, Thank You]

I think Joe's NWA Title victory is being saved for something huge. No less than a three month buildup.

[HMARK Center]

How many times was this said in the first half of 2006?

Well, to be fair, nobody saw Angle coming, yadda yadda. I know what you mean, though.

[darthpipes]

Too much musical chairs with the title. Abyss was definitely helped by winning it but it also damaged him to because of the cheap way he won it (via DQ) and the shortness of his reign. Russo has done damage to his "monster" gimmick.

[HMARK Center]

Did he? I didn't see how Abyss lost last night.

If anything, losing it could turn him into a bigger monster, depending on which way they want to go, storyline-wise.

[Hensley]

Well, he can't enter anything into Sting and Abyss. Russo's too stubborn to put him in the title picture, even though he's been over-due for it for almost half a year now! They've got plenty of options still though, really. They could slide him back into one of those X Division fueds, or maybe have him join AJ and Rhino's little tiff. Whatever they're feeling like, I suppose.

[AmericanDragon420]

Having Joe feud with Shelley or one of the guys from the PCS would be awesome for right now. Joe's clearly going to win the title later this year, so why not have him give the midcard some rub right now?

[cosmonaut]

hitmanmark said:

How many times was this said in the first half of 2006?

Well, to be fair, nobody saw Angle coming, yadda yadda. I know what you mean, though.

Oh, I know. But honestly, I don't see any reason for Angle to have the title.

Guys like Sting, Angle, and even Jarrett have such a history and esteem, if you will, that they don't need a championship belt to be seen as really credible threats, especially insofar as the average non-smark new fan (read: those that they hope to attract) is concerned. The average fan of WWE that hasn't been exposed to TNA will probably assume that TNA is a minor league federation compared to the E. When they turn it on for the first time and see Angle with the belt, there's a good chance many will sit and they'll think:

"Oh, Kurt Angle was just on WWE a few months ago and he's already champ here? Wow, he must be a lot better than everyone in this TNA shit."

or

"Sting? That old motherf***er wouldn't ever cut it in the WWE, but he's the champ here. How sad!"

But if they watch and see a beast like Joe on there with a belt on his shoulder and Angle without it, Christian without it, Sting without it, etc., they're intrigued by Samoa Joe and, subsequently, TNA.

Angle, Sting, Christian, etc. should look like threats, absolutely. They should put on great matches with Joe, Abyss, etc. But as far as I'm concerned, Samoa Joe, who has been built up for a year and a half, should have the belt and should be booked as the champion to beat.

[Error]

cosmonaut said:

Oh, I know. But honestly, I don't see any reason for Angle to have the title.

The thing is, anyone who gets the belt from a former WWE Champ and Olympic gold medalist gets a huge rub from that, provided that they aren't a former WWE wrestler or some one that he has beat cleanly several times now. That sucks for Joe (while awesome, it just wont be that impressive, IMO) but, for someone like Christopher Daniels, AJ Styles, Austin Starr, or anyone else like this will be huge for them and TNA since they are "homegrown".

[cosmonaut]

jinxed said:

cosmonaut said:

Oh, I know. But honestly, I don't see any reason for Angle to have the title.

The thing is, anyone who gets the belt from a former WWE Champ and Olympic gold medalist gets a huge rub from that, provided that they aren't a former WWE wrestler or some one that he has beat cleanly several times now. That sucks for Joe (while awesome, it just wont be that impressive, IMO) but, for someone like Christopher Daniels, AJ Styles, Austin Starr, or anyone else like this will be huge for them and TNA since they are "homegrown".

The thing is, it wouldn't and won't happen for them. If TNA wants the NWA title to have credibility, everyone should have to work his way up to fighting the top contenders. The right to fight for the NWA belt should be earned over the course of time by fighting in matches on the midcard for a while, and then earning a shot, rather than basing it on previous accomplishments.

Now, obviously, Kurt Angle is a huge name and this wouldn't be an issue had Christian not shown up a year ago and immediately been granted a main event spot. Rather than find anything for these ex-E people to do, they're put over anyone home-grown immediately.

For instance, Christian wasn't a contender for the WWE title (whether he should have been from a smarky sense is of no consequence; he simply wasn't), but he shows up and wins the NWA belt. All this does is say "Hey, this guy wasn't good enough to be among the elites in WWE, but he's better than anyone we have!"

[Joekishi]

darthpipes said:

Too much musical chairs with the title. Abyss was definitely helped by winning it but it also damaged him to because of the cheap way he won it (via DQ) and the shortness of his reign. Russo has done damage to his "monster" gimmick.

More damage, he was TNA's main event jobber

[Joekishi]

hadesgigas said:

Joe vs Tomko

"FATTY!!!!"

Eh..

Still want to get Tomko vs. Aries

"ARIES!!!"